Dogmatic Certainties

[bbyrd009]

Well, you come across as somewhat agnostic to me too, byrd. It's not a 4 letter word, you know! I kind of admire the integrity of most of the agnostics I've met. They are honest. They say, I dont know,because they dont.

tbh im not even sure what Agnostic means? Its a pretty flexible word seems like, but lets admit "believers" use it as a put down, right

i have faith in Yah, personally, and i dont deny that things can be known; but these are different concepts from "he who says he knows"
which tells me that ppl who Profess to know certainly do not

but where is epi now?
hes all done with this thread, see, hiding behind a tree, got no defense
nice funeral garb btw bro

 

[bbyrd009]

so wadr i suspect i am perceived as an agnostic bc i refuse to go along with the Cult of Sol crap, although i hope i would never be so bold as to state that as AT, like i knew, bc i dont

 

[amadeus]

We really can know truth. We just can't know it by saying, ooh, I like that verse, ima' claim that one as being about me and, ooh, I don't like that verse, ima' say that one's about you.

For every verse that fills us with joy, there will be another one that puts us in some dread. We should struggle through the dread instead of covering our ears.

And this is the stuff of new denominations. Apparently the number (of denominations) continues to increase. This is not what the Baptist meant here:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[amadeus]

A terrible thing, wisdom, isn't it?

"The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here." Matt 12:42

Ah yes, but who is this man greater, yea wiser, than Solomon?

"There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man." Ecc 9:14-15

Have we all forgotten this poor wise man, who is not as poor as he apparently seems to some...

Who was the wise man that spoke, saying "a greater than Solomon is here"? It was not @Episkopos . It was not @amadeus . It was not @bbyrd009 . It was not @any of the rest of the members of CB.

Is it time to put down the person of each individual or is it time to lift up that "greater" one, that "wiser" one? Or is it rather time to simply humble me, myself and I all by my lonesome?

"For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:11

I would guess that just about everyone here, if he/she chose to do so, could focus on the flaws and errors of individuals pointing our fingers and calling out their names for all those listening. And if someone did that who would it edify? Anyone can come along with a sledgehammer and start breaking the building down, but who is able to build it up?

Here Paul writes of building it right:

"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon." I Cor 3:10

Here again Paul writes about edifying:

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying." I Cor 14:26

So where is the sledgehammer and where is the one who wields it?

His name for any who have forgotten was Jesus!

 

[bbyrd009]

That would be agnostic, I think.

so then bc i suspect i am perceived as an agnostic bc i refuse to go along with the Cult of Sol crap, but i dont know this for sure, i am an agnostic?

ok

i wish you--and epi--the best of luck, ok?
no hard feelings i hope

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I never intimated that the truth cannot be known.

Just want to make sure you know that my own post was not saying that YOU were saying the truth can't be known. I know you weren't saying that at ALL! My post was more addressed to Byrd.
Considering how the conversation went, I wanted to make myself clear.

 

[marksman]

Why are we plagued with so many dogmatic certainties and religious opinions? The ego driven agenda would put these as more important than love and unity. They are things to squabble over rather than coming to any kind of agreement. Is this not carnal?

So I have identified, more or less a few causes for these DC's as follows.

-reactions to the things we hate. (bad experiences)
-self-interest (ambitions and perceived religious assurances)
-ideological preferences
-drawing wrong conclusions based on quick and rash judgments
-personal dissatisfaction and disaffection with the status quo

Now this trend towards personal opinions or preferences short-circuits any possibility of the mind of Christ coming to the fore. The DC's get in the way of love, unity, tolerance and openness to the experience of others by creating false hierarchies of what is important.

Can I suggest that the question posed is in the light of present-day church experience and therefore the reason for them?

In the New Testament Church (NTC) the situation was quite different as in...

They met daily. So that meant there was little opportunity for things to fester and disagreement to arise.

Because they met in small groups in homes, there was little opportunity to disagree because if you did, you could discuss your problem openly and honestly.

They had no bible apart from the OT so NT teaching was by word of mouth via the apostles.

They didn't just talk the talk, they walked the walk as in how much they loved one another.

It was obvious that women were elevated to a position of care and respect, which was not the case in Roman society.

Put all that together and you have got a WOW! not a disparate group of individuals all chasing their tail.

 

[Episkopos]

tbh im not even sure what Agnostic means? Its a pretty flexible word seems like, but lets admit "believers" use it as a put down, right

i have faith in Yah, personally, and i dont deny that things can be known; but these are different concepts from "he who says he knows"
which tells me that ppl who Profess to know certainly do not

but where is epi now?
hes all done with this thread, see, hiding behind a tree, got no defense
nice funeral garb btw bro

I wait for your hizzy fits to subside....get it off your chest. Best to not type out every thought that flicks through your brain though.

To be agnostic just means to "not know". Some agnostics get offended with anyone who speaks with more certainty than they do. Ring any bells?

 

[bbyrd009]

I wait for your hizzy fits to subside....get it off your chest. Best to not type out every thought that flicks through...

it is, huh? Look bro you can speak in satans dialectic forever if you want, idc, doesnt bother me at all. You can give orders, make proclamations, all that. go for it.

To be agnostic just means to "not know". Some agnostics get offended with anyone who speaks with more certainty than they do. Ring any bells?

go with that then epi, i know what we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat! means already ok
have a nice day bro

 

[Episkopos]

it is, huh? Look bro you can speak in satans dialectic forever if you want, idc, doesnt bother me at all. You can give orders, make proclamations, all that. go for it.

go with that then epi, i know what we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat! means already ok
have a nice day bro

What's up with you lately? What is eating you up?

 

[bbyrd009]

What's up with you lately? What is eating you up?

as i have already said, epi, i am not bothered, it is no problem for me, i deal with satans dialectic all day long ok, no prob, it is a fact of life right. Stand There forever if you want

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[amadeus]

as i have already said, epi, i am not bothered, it is no problem for me, i deal with satans dialectic all day long ok, no prob, it is a fact of life right. Stand There forever if you want

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

But you keep on trying seemingly all by yourself. Looking for another moderator imposed vacation from the forum? That seems to be your direction. We hope not for when it happens you really are missed!

 

[bbyrd009]

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

But you keep on trying seemingly all by yourself. Looking for another moderator imposed vacation from the forum? That seems to be your direction. We hope not for when it happens you really are missed!

ha well i guess i could scroll back and start over one more time, but it hasnt got responded to twice now so i dont much see the point? Am i doing something to warrant a time out here, you think? Maybe you could tell epi what manna is?

what is it?

 

[bbyrd009]

What's up with you lately? What is eating you up?

ha i mean are you certain something is even eating me up? Seems like bidness as usual here, pretty much? But fwiw if i was bugged even a little i would def not be talking at all

 

[amadeus]

ha well i guess i could scroll back and start over one more time, but it hasnt got responded to twice now so i dont much see the point? Am i doing something to warrant a time out here, you think? Maybe you could tell epi what manna is?

what is it?

No, you've done nothing to incur the imposed time out...yet. But, how long alone will you be able to contain yourself?

As for epi and manna, I think he already knows. Sometimes he, who often speaks so well, at times also has trouble with communication like all the rest of us.

What is it, indeed?

"And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat." Ex 16:15

Sometimes it is I, or you, or epi that finds himself all alone... or so he thinks:

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28

God has spoken to you my friend for I have heard His voice in some of what you have posted here. I emphasize the "some" but that can increase.

 

[Enoch111]

We hope not for when it happens you really are missed!

Why would anyone miss a saboteur? Unless you enjoy explosions.

 

[amadeus]

Why would anyone miss a saboteur? Unless you enjoy explosions.

I guess you really believe that he is. Even if he really were [which I do not believe] why should we be concerned if we are in the right place with God? Is God not able to care for His own?

 

[Enoch111]

I guess you really believe that he is.

All you have to do is carefully examine his posts for yourself.

 

[amadeus]

All you have to do is carefully examine his posts for yourself.

Oh I have examined them and still I examine them. While I believe that I understand why you and others have decided strongly against him, I cannot do that. You don't see what I see and I am unable to show it to you if you cannot see it for yourself.