Dogmatic Certainties

[Episkopos]

Why are we plagued with so many dogmatic certainties and religious opinions? The ego driven agenda would put these as more important than love and unity. They are things to squabble over rather than coming to any kind of agreement. Is this not carnal?

So I have identified, more or less a few causes for these DC's as follows.

-reactions to the things we hate. (bad experiences)
-self-interest (ambitions and perceived religious assurances)
-ideological preferences
-drawing wrong conclusions based on quick and rash judgments
-personal dissatisfaction and disaffection with the status quo

Now this trend towards personal opinions or preferences short-circuits any possibility of the mind of Christ coming to the fore. The DC's get in the way of love, unity, tolerance and openness to the experience of others by creating false hierarchies of what is important.

 

[Episkopos]

When you follow both the Holy Spirit and the word of God you are set free from any ideological prison or circular reasoning that most modern believers get caught up in. People prefer dogmatic beliefs to a living faith. They prefer what is familiar to all things becoming new...and continuing to be new. People like the familiar so they ALWAYS go in circles. The circles of comfort and familiarity. But this is NOT being led by the Spirit.

And nobody can relate to you UNLESS you opt for a pre-existing ideological orbit around which people can still be at the center of. Who wants to break with the carnal order to be connected to God? The price is too unsettling for the vast majority of us..

 

[Nancy]

When you follow both the Holy Spirit and the word of God you are set free from any ideological prison or circular reasoning that most modern believers get caught up in. People prefer dogmatic beliefs to a living faith. They prefer what is familiar to all things becoming new...and continuing to be new. People like the familiar so they ALWAYS go in circles. The circles of comfort and familiarity. But this is NOT being led by the Spirit.

And nobody can relate to you UNLESS you opt for a pre-existing ideological orbit around which people can still be at the center of. Who wants to break with the carnal order to be connected to God? The price is too unsettling for the vast majority of us..

Been guilty of some of the DC's you mentioned. Could be time to step out of that comfort zone.

 

[Candidus]

The reason that Dogmatism is so popular, is that Dogmatism works! It is the myth that the one who is the best debater is always correct. Look at the bad doctrine some people will follow. Look at how their teacher/preacher presents it. Who will you believe? The person who says that they don't know if it adds up, or the person who declares that God said it, I believe it!

In my experience, "Come let us reason together" almost always fails to convince the audience when arguing with someone who dogmatically declares... "I know that I know that I know this is what God says!"

 

[Candidus]

Why are we plagued with so many dogmatic certainties and religious opinions?

What many people call faith or belief is approached in an absolutist fashion. This is a house of cards that will in most cases leave someone trying to pick up the pieces once it collapses.

When I say that "I believe"... people do not know what I mean by this. Belief is a broad term in that it means different things.

Certitudes are beliefs that one bases their existence on, and would willingly die rather than deny it. It is utterly crushing to have a Certitude destroyed or proven untrue. I would include in this the reality of God, the saving atonement of Christ, the Deity of Christ.

Faith/Belief is something you embrace as true, and your life reflects it. You make life changes based upon them. If you are proven wrong, it is deeply troubling and requires that many things we believe and do, may be affected by it because that doctrine touches other ones we believe. These would be my view of atonement, baptism, communion, and whether an airplane that weighs more than my house can take me in the air safely to another destination.

Opinions are beliefs that we may or may not change the way we live based upon them, but we are willing to fight for them. If we are proven wrong, we are not crushed, but perhaps disappointed. Perhaps we are embarrassed and humbled, but most people just make adjustments in their minds if proven wrong. I have an opinion what time Church should start, or whether we should really call it "Church." If I am proven wrong, I will change my opinion, but it does not deeply touch me or what else I believe.

Fancies or Larks are beliefs that people have that we know may or may not be true, but we like them anyway. Whether there is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, few will argue with you if you say it. It does not matter if it is not true, you never base how you live on a fancy.

The problem is... many cannot tell the difference! Some people place all their beliefs on the level of a certitude or faith/belief level. This sets us up for a tremendous failure! An example of this is when I taught this in adult Sunday School. I was giving the example of the fancy that it was pleasant to believe that angles are children that died and went to heaven, and that they were flying around with wings, and their little bottoms were exposed as their cloth flapped in the wind. Unknown to me was someone present that could not make the distinctions about the level of belief, and was utterly crushed when I made light of that belief and claimed it was just a fancy. She never came to Sunday School again (which indicates that she held this doctrine of baby-angles to be a faith/belief or a certitude/ it affected her life and how she lived.) Soon after, she stopped coming to Church.

Another example was a Seminary student that was King James Only in belief. One of their professors challenged that and exposed evidence to the contrary. This evidence crushed this individual, and they dropped out of seminary and forsook the faith. I said to the person who lamented this that his friend did not have faith in Christ, but the King James Bible. That Bible Worship is not faith in Christ. He was offended at that observation and strongly disagreed. I personally have had some faith/beliefs, and a certitude that I based my life around that had been proven wrong, and I was crushed. It was devastating! Yet my faith was on Christ, not these doctrines that I elevated to such a high level of importance. Painfully, I regrouped, reevaluated, and made adjustments, and learned that not everything has to be on the same level. Blessings.

 

[Base12]

This is a really good post Episkopos.

It reminds me of this verse...

Ephesians 6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places"

 

[reformed1689]

Why are we plagued with so many dogmatic certainties and religious opinions? The ego driven agenda would put these as more important than love and unity. They are things to squabble over rather than coming to any kind of agreement. Is this not carnal?

So I have identified, more or less a few causes for these DC's as follows.

-reactions to the things we hate. (bad experiences)
-self-interest (ambitions and perceived religious assurances)
-ideological preferences
-drawing wrong conclusions based on quick and rash judgments
-personal dissatisfaction and disaffection with the status quo

Now this trend towards personal insult or preferences short-circuits any possibility of the mind of Christ coming to the fore. The DC's They get in the way of love, unity, tolerance and openness to the experience of others by creating false hierarchies of what is important.

We are called to separate from those who are false in their doctrine. So no, dogmatic certainties are not ego-driven. It is a biblical mandate.

 

[Base12]

Would Censorship be a cause for DC as well?

In other words, not allowing alternative viewpoints from being expressed.

 

[Windmillcharge]

When you follow both the Holy Spirit and the word of God you are set free from any ideological prison or circular reasoning that most modern believers get caught up in. People prefer dogmatic beliefs to a living faith. They prefer what is familiar to all things becoming new...and continuing to be new. People like the familiar so they ALWAYS go in circles. The circles of comfort and familiarity. But this is NOT being led by the Spirit.

And nobody can relate to you UNLESS you opt for a pre-existing ideological orbit around which people can still be at the center of. Who wants to break with the carnal order to be connected to God? The price is too unsettling for the vast majority of us..

Sorry rather than open myself to what ever is the current car in religious circles I will stay with the dogmatic statement I find in the Bible.
All have sinned, rather than today's idea ' that we are worth it'
That Jesus is the only way to God rather than the ridiculous idea that all ways to God are equally valid.
That right and wrong', good and evil are prescribed by God and his law not if it feels good it is good etc.

If that is going round in circles then I don't want to go in a straight line if it means abandoning Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

Sorry rather than open myself to what ever is the current car in religious circles I will stay with the dogmatic statement I find in the Bible.
All have sinned, rather than today's idea ' that we are worth it'
That Jesus is the only way to God rather than the ridiculous idea that all ways to God are equally valid.
That right and wrong', good and evil are prescribed by God and his law not if it feels good it is good etc.

If that is going round in circles then I don't want to go in a straight line if it means abandoning Jesus.

Nobody follows Jesus in a circle. His ways are always new. The newness of life. So instead of revisiting the same things over and over with Christ we are constantly exploring new ground. IOW the way of Christ is not just "all things are become new" and but all things continue to be new. This is fully unsettling and seemingly chaotic to the average person.
OF course until we learn to follow Christ in the Spirit we will without doubt go in circles. Think of the Israelites in the wilderness. That's us too! And God can speak to us in those circles of course. We can be led by the Spirit even for a time. But we normally return to what is comfortable to us.

Walking in the Spirit entails a break with this world...a full break...a ceasing to walk as an ordinary human. That is what sabbath means...to cease. To cease from our desires, our strength, our opinions, thoughts....etc. To take on the perfection of Jesus Christ that He fashioned in His own body. But VERY few will experience this at all.

 

[Episkopos]

We are called to separate from those who are false in their doctrine. So no, dogmatic certainties are not ego-driven. It is a biblical mandate.

This is an example of what I'm saying. You should realize that all certainties come from the human mind. The ways of God are mysterious..and we never truly know ourselves as God does. So we can't trust our self-interested ideas. It is foolishness to do so. Instead we should get oil for our lamps in order to be a light to the world and a witness to HIS kind of life and love. Nobody cares, God included, about your doctrinal positions. They can't save you...they can only harden you and make you proud of yourself.

The letter kills...but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Episkopos]

What many people call faith or belief is approached in an absolutist fashion. This is a house of cards that will in most cases leave someone trying to pick up the pieces once it collapses.

When I say that "I believe"... people do not know what I mean by this. Belief is a broad term in that it means different things.

Certitudes are beliefs that one bases their existence on, and would willingly die rather than deny it. It is utterly crushing to have a Certitude destroyed or proven untrue. I would include in this the reality of God, the saving atonement of Christ, the Deity of Christ.

Faith/Belief is something you embrace as true, and your life reflects it. You make life changes based upon them. If you are proven wrong, it is deeply troubling and requires that many things we believe and do, may be affected by it because that doctrine touches other ones we believe. These would be my view of atonement, baptism, communion, and whether an airplane that weighs more than my house can take me in the air safely to another destination.

Opinions are beliefs that we may or may not change the way we live based upon them, but we are willing to fight for them. If we are proven wrong, we are not crushed, but perhaps disappointed. Perhaps we are embarrassed and humbled, but most people just make adjustments in their minds if proven wrong. I have an opinion what time Church should start, or whether we should really call it "Church." If I am proven wrong, I will change my opinion, but it does not deeply touch me or what else I believe.

Fancies or Larks are beliefs that people have that we know may or may not be true, but we like them anyway. Whether there is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, few will argue with you if you say it. It does not matter if it is not true, you never base how you live on a fancy.

The problem is... many cannot tell the difference! Some people place all their beliefs on the level of a certitude or faith/belief level. This sets us up for a tremendous failure! An example of this is when I taught this in adult Sunday School. I was giving the example of the fancy that it was pleasant to believe that angles are children that died and went to heaven, and that they were flying around with wings, and their little bottoms were exposed as their cloth flapped in the wind. Unknown to me was someone present that could not make the distinctions about the level of belief, and was utterly crushed when I made light of that belief and claimed it was just a fancy. She never came to Sunday School again (which indicates that she held this doctrine of baby-angles to be a faith/belief or a certitude/ it affected her life and how she lived.) Soon after, she stopped coming to Church.

Another example was a Seminary student that was King James Only in belief. One of their professors challenged that and exposed evidence to the contrary. This evidence crushed this individual, and they dropped out of seminary and forsook the faith. I said to the person who lamented this that his friend did not have faith in Christ, but the King James Bible. That Bible Worship is not faith in Christ. He was offended at that observation and strongly disagreed. I personally have had some faith/beliefs, and a certitude that I based my life around that had been proven wrong, and I was crushed. It was devastating! Yet my faith was on Christ, not these doctrines that I elevated to such a high level of importance. Painfully, I regrouped, reevaluated, and made adjustments, and learned that not everything has to be on the same level. Blessings.

You have a refreshing and uncommon understanding of the truth. Welcome here!

 

[Enoch111]

Why are we plagued with so many dogmatic certainties and religious opinions?

The Bible is meant to give Christians dogmatic certainties (but not religious opinions). The Gospel itself is a PROCLAMATION of dogmatic certainties.

1 CORINTHIANS 15

THE GOSPEL: A DECLARATION AND A PROCLAMATION
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you... [Note: preaching = proclamation]

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #1:
CHRISTIANS ARE TO FIRMLY STAND ON THE GOSPEL
...which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #2:
CHRISTIANS ARE SAVED BY OBEDIENCE TO THE GOSPEL
...2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #3:
THE GOSPEL WAS RECEIVED FROM GOD AND CHRIST
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #4:
CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES
...how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #5:
CHRIST WAS ENTOMBED FOR THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS
...4 And that he was buried...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #6:
CHRIST ROSE AGAIN FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION
...and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The unsaved and dying world needs these dogmatic certainties. So if you have a problem with that, then you should be asking yourself whether you really believe the Gospel. And it is Satan who would have people believe that there are no dogmatic certainties in the Bible.

 

[Windmillcharge]

instead of revisiting the same things over and over with Christ we are constantly exploring new ground.

Finding new ways of crucifying Jesus, new ways of sinning.

Paul talked of the trained Roman soldier in the battle line of having done everything to continue to stand.
Of a solder doing his duty, fighting the enemy in front of him and of staying there standing firm in opposing the enemy.

You no doubt do not face daily challenges or repeatedly the same challenges, for many Christians hey do face the Sam temptations, the same trials the same failures and have to pick themselves up to back to Jesus and seek to start again.

The reality is of a circle that moves slowly nearer to the ideal of Christian service.

 

[Episkopos]

Finding new ways of crucifying Jesus, new ways of sinning.

Paul talked of the trained Roman soldier in the battle line of having done everything to continue to stand.
Of a solder doing his duty, fighting the enemy in front of him and of staying there standing firm in opposing the enemy.

You no doubt do not face daily challenges or repeatedly the same challenges, for many Christians hey do face the Sam temptations, the same trials the same failures and have to pick themselves up to back to Jesus and seek to start again.

The reality is of a circle that moves slowly nearer to the ideal of Christian service.

Maybe you didn't read where I said that Jesus is there in our circles....but He is wanting us to enter into the land of promise. Your attitude suggests that you don't even consider that as a possibility.

 

[Episkopos]

The Bible is meant to give Christians dogmatic certainties (but not religious opinions). The Gospel itself is a PROCLAMATION of dogmatic certainties.

1 CORINTHIANS 15

THE GOSPEL: A DECLARATION AND A PROCLAMATION
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you... [Note: preaching = proclamation]

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #1:
CHRISTIANS ARE TO FIRMLY STAND ON THE GOSPEL
...which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #2:
CHRISTIANS ARE SAVED BY OBEDIENCE TO THE GOSPEL
...2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #3:
THE GOSPEL WAS RECEIVED FROM GOD AND CHRIST
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #4:
CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES
...how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #5:
CHRIST WAS ENTOMBED FOR THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS
...4 And that he was buried...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #6:
CHRIST ROSE AGAIN FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION
...and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The unsaved and dying world needs these dogmatic certainties. So if you have a problem with that, then you should be asking yourself whether you really believe the Gospel. And it is Satan who would have people believe that there are no dogmatic certainties in the Bible.

This is SO off....but expected. God doesn't want a religious dogmatic adherence. He wants worshippers in Spirit and truth. Maybe you didn't get the memo?

The carnal mind is not with God. We need to break out from the pull of this world and the ready-made certainties that taint the soul. God is looking for relationship...not lip-service.

The definition of an ideology is that it ignores reality and hopes for the best...taking only those things that support a good ending. So it doesn't matter how true something is...to make an ideology of it is to destroy the truth of it. You can't make LIFE in God a dogmatic thing at all.

Imagine this verse being taken dogmatically...

Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

So all the dogmatic religious types have to do is draw the wrong conclusion and claim to be born of God because of a recitation of a creed and the mental assent (apart from any transformation into the character of Jesus). But Many will say Lord, Lord....and be rejected. If we have even an ounce of discernment we would realize that all the shallow superficial notions that people get without the LIFE and LOVE that Jesus brings to the world in OUR lives...is exactly pointless.

Pharisees beware.

 

[Episkopos]

I think that dogmatic certainties come as a replacement for an actual encounter or walk with God. Many people say they are born again....especially in the US. But how much of that is just hype and cultural church practice? And then there is the issue of baptism in the Spirit? That's even more misunderstood. So it is no wonder that people who fill the pews are not all there through the Spirit.

But even then...if a person remains open and humble (which is VERY discouraged in the religious system since that would mean people would be free to leave that particular ministry) there is still a chance to learn the truth to the saving of one's soul.

 

[ScottA]

We are who we are doing what we will, according to what is written. We can't help ourselves.

Contrary to popular belief, life is not made up of choices, it's made up of revelations, revelations of what we chose before the world began. This is us, that "man of sin" revealed. So...is that to say that we can't change so why bother, why try to do better? No, not at all. These daily revelations are the would-be process of us coming to who we are eternally in the end. But I say "would-be process", only because it is perceived as such, not because it is true--there is no process, no timeline. God speaks to us from the only reality, and says "I am", because that non-process, non-timeline reality, is actually what is true. But this is a story--history, is His story, and ours. So, who's to say we won't change? Keep trying.

As for today, and everyday being a repeated clash of dogmas over the ages...everyday, is "today." Every day has its mix of divers circumstances, its lot, according to what is written not just about us, but rather about us all overlapping each other's lives and times, coming to our eternal self, "each in his own order." But just when we think we've got it quite together, while the world is so divided and lacking unity, so not ready to live up to what we would all hopefully desire, along comes the next newbie making waves and continuing the ripple. And then we die.

All is vanity.

Nonetheless, this is good, this is just, this is fair. Each person is born into their own mix of good and evil equally. Repeat. Repeat. And that is the beauty of it, the brilliance. Even in our own times, these times of the gentiles, the church age...we don't just repeat the same arguments and issues repeating history, we also repeat that equal opportunity to hear the good news of hope in Christ and of being saved from this merry go round that would otherwise end where it started--in death, having fallen with all of mankind like dominoes after Adam and Eve.

So, yes, we should strive to do better than the status quo, better in our own time. But we can also rest in the reality that this too is for a purpose that is ultimately good for those who love God, those who will also come to the end of days and say, "I am."

 

[marks]

I think that dogmatic certainties come as a replacement for an actual encounter or walk with God.

I find that dogmatic certainties result from actual encounters, and an actual walk with God.

What I read in Scripture is revealed in my life. And I know it is true, first, by believing the Bible, but also by it becoming my life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Bible is meant to give Christians dogmatic certainties (but not religious opinions). The Gospel itself is a PROCLAMATION of dogmatic certainties.

1 CORINTHIANS 15

THE GOSPEL: A DECLARATION AND A PROCLAMATION
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you... [Note: preaching = proclamation]

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #1:
CHRISTIANS ARE TO FIRMLY STAND ON THE GOSPEL
...which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #2:
CHRISTIANS ARE SAVED BY OBEDIENCE TO THE GOSPEL
...2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #3:
THE GOSPEL WAS RECEIVED FROM GOD AND CHRIST
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #4:
CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES
...how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #5:
CHRIST WAS ENTOMBED FOR THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS
...4 And that he was buried...

DOGMATIC CERTAINTY #6:
CHRIST ROSE AGAIN FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION
...and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The unsaved and dying world needs these dogmatic certainties. So if you have a problem with that, then you should be asking yourself whether you really believe the Gospel. And it is Satan who would have people believe that there are no dogmatic certainties in the Bible.

Hi Enoch,

That's just it . . . if the trumpet fails to sound a clear note, than who can know what it's about?

And in the same way, God gave us His Word so that we could know Him, our Creator.

Much love!