Dogmatic Certainties

[amadeus]

Do you realize that by this same understanding of what the earnest of the Holy Spirit is, that were we to actually "walk away from God", and be condemned, the Holy Spirit remains with us even into condemnation?

The Spirit received is the same Spirit that Adam and Eve had when God Breathed Life into them. When they disobeyed the Spirit left and they were dead. For this reason Jesus came:

"...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

He came to allow to make for ourselves the decision to put the reins into God's hands.

The one receiving it keeps is, same as with an engagement ring.

What remains is only a glimmer of hope unless we have committed the unpardonable sin. The engagement ring has no really lasting value to anyone if we never decide to keep our vows and consummate the marriage.

"When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay." Ecc 5:4-5

 

[marks]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

Of course it you don't believe what Jesus said, then you cannot. According to your faith is how it works! If our faith falls short, we are able to ask and receive what is needed.

I don't believe that Jesus meant that the works we do will supercede His work of redeeming us.

Having received the Holy Spirit, we now have the same choice they did,

Not so. We are not like Adam was. We need to understand justification and a new creation.

Much love!

Edit to add . . . I know what you think about these things, I think. I have no need to pursue the topic with you.

 

[amadeus]

I don't believe that Jesus meant that the works we do will supercede His work of redeeming us.



Not so. We are not like Adam was. We need to understand justification and a new creation.

Much love!

Edit to add . . . I know what you think about these things, I think. I have no need to pursue the topic with you.

That is your decision to make. The reins are in your hands. They need to be in God's hands. Only you can put them there!

 

[marks]

What remains is only a glimmer of hope unless we have committed the unpardonable sin. The engagement ring has no really lasting value to anyone if we never decide to keep our vows and consummate the marriage.

The point is in the illustration. The Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance. An earnest isn't actually that unless the person who receives it keeps it.

So to say that the Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance given to us, that means that should the inheritance not be delivered to us, we still keep the Holy Spirit. That's the whole point of an "earnest".

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is your decision to make. The reins are in your hands. They need to be in God's hands. Only you can put them there!

I don't understand what you are talking about. To continue the discussion?

 

[amadeus]

The point is in the illustration. The Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance. An earnest isn't actually that unless the person who receives it keeps it.

So to say that the Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance given to us, that means that should the inheritance not be delivered to us, we still keep the Holy Spirit. That's the whole point of an "earnest".

Much love!

So long as it remains a glimmer in the end it is really darkness. The Holy Spirit is NOT salvation. Rather it is the difference that gives us a real possibility. I won't go any further with that as you have already made up your mind!

 

[amadeus]

I don't understand what you are talking about. To continue the discussion?

I thought you meant you were finished with the discussion. Was I wrong?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i would take that as a sign tbh

a sign?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What is all this about making declarations? I almost feel pushed into it, I'm not really trying to talk about me, I want to talk about what the Bible teaches first, and then make application to us. I'm not calling myself righteous. I'm quoting verses of the Bible.

For me this is a simple thing with one element to it. We trust that God is here with us because He loves us and delights to share His life with us, and in trusting Him, we walk in the Spirit, living the abundance Jesus promised.

How does that verse go? He shall keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is anchored on the LORD. Something like that.

That's all we need do. Trust in God's deliverance, and then enjoy that deliverance.

As in so many things, I think this also will be to us according to our faith.

Much love!

Isa26:
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

4 Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength:

 

[bbyrd009]

...whose mind is stayed on You:
(barketh, barketh)

a sign?

ah...well, yes, although this is not pleasant to contemplate in a loved one, all that is self inflicted, basically. She's deficient in...everything, mct oil would clear up the amyloid plaques eventually, she's terminally deficient in D (and K) prolly, both catalysts for the mct oil btw, her trace metals are whacked, she never ate an omega 3 in her life, etc, kitchen full of aluminum, lifetime of direct contact food/aluminum foil, "goes" once every other day too, prolly. Skeletal fluorosis symptoms, likely

the mct oil alone would bring her halfway back in a year, improvements in two weeks, plenty of YT for that

no reason virtually anyone couldn't still be or start being climbing mountains into their 90s, and sharp as a tack;
except they dont want to

 

[Windmillcharge]

If you are an alien in this world....what world are you native to? If one day you think you will emigrate from this world to be a future citizen of heaven...doesn't that still make you of this earth in the meantime?

Do you realize you can walk in the Spirit and actually be aware of heaven now? It is the kingdom of heaven. How do you seek that place first while still in this life?

I know that those who are the most heavenly minds, are of the most earthly use.

 

[marks]

Isa26:
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

4 Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength:

Triple likes!

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus,

What would you say is the meaning here:

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

What does it mean, "shall not come into condemnation", and, "is passed from death into life"?

Much love!

Two things in the verse cited are necessary to have everlasting Life, to not come into condemnation, and to pass from death into life: Hearing his Word and Believing on the One who sent him.

To hear speaks of 'hearing by the Holy Spirit' which comes by the Word of God[Rom 10:17]. Absent the Word of God, absent also the hearing.

Believing that Jesus and/or God exist is not what is meant for devils believe that much.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

There are people who say they believe in God but are unwilling to do anything, such as "diligently seek Him"

The "passed from death unto life" is what happens when a person is born again or born from above [John 3:5]. Consider that Adam and Eve were alive then they disobeyed God and died. Jesus came and brought Life, but at what point is Life everlasting?

"For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." Rom 11:15-21

At what point is Life everlasting? At what point is salvation complete and final?

"... but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matt 10:22

Before we met Jesus we were condemned. Then we met him and started to follow him faithfully believing on him. So then if a man gets lazy and stops following him or tempted to sin and succumbs to it then comes the cutting off again of the grafted in wild branches. Then comes back the condemnation.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

 

[amadeus]

I'll likely never be "finished" with the discussion, my friend!

But only that if you felt we were getting repetitious that's OK. I think maybe I didn't express myself well there!

Much love!

I understand. The following words in your post #151 caused me to believe you wanted to end the discussion.

Edit to add . . . I know what you think about these things, I think. I have no need to pursue the topic with you.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you are an alien in this world....what world are you native to? If one day you think you will emigrate from this world to be a future citizen of heaven...doesn't that still make you of this earth in the meantime?

Do you realize you can walk in the Spirit and actually be aware of heaven now? It is the kingdom of heaven. How do you seek that place first while still in this life?

and, why do (you) imagine some "afterlife," lily of the field?

 

[bbyrd009]

I know

hmm

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi amadeus,

What would you say is the meaning here:

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

What does it mean, "shall not come into condemnation", and, "is passed from death into life"?

Much love!

Define "believeth on Him."

 

[marks]

Define "believeth on Him."

What a good question to ask!

Maybe two parts to my answer.

John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

Believing Jesus is Who He says He is.

Matthew 9
27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.
28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.

Believing that Jesus can do for me.

And receiving that.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

and, why do (you) imagine some "afterlife," lily of the field?

The idea of an "afterlife" is a religious construct adopted by a dogmatic Christendom from Norse mythology and other such pagan religions. To the disciple of Christ, eternal life starts right now...otherwise it isn't an eternal life. When we live in the Spirit we shall continue in the presence of God when the body falls away. So then the soul continues to live when the body dies. What comes after is the bodily resurrection....not an afterlife.

 

[amadeus]

I would have done better if I had said something like, It's OK if you don't want to go through it all again, that's more what I was thinking!

As if communication wasn't hard enough!

Communication really is a big part of people's problem here. Oh there are real disagreements as well, but there phony ones. Sometime two people may not be far apart at all but one or both them misunderstand something and they effectively talk through the night without receiving any clarification. Maybe this is because there is a lot of talking but not very much listening?