Don’t Ignore Or Dismiss The LORD’s Return; You Could Be Caught Unprepared And Be Left Behind To Deal With The Beast = Matthew 24;32-42, Revelation 13

[WPM]

That's the whole point, its not the Second Coming as in Jesus coming to the earth a "second time", its the 2nd Advent. The Rapture thus can happen before the 2nd Advent, Jesus comes to meet us in the are, just as the scriptures say, and of course that is my whole point, this is not his second coming, its a misnomer, thus the ignorance is all yours. Rev. 19 can not happen without a Pre Trib Rapture, I don't know why I waste time with people who obviously are not called unto Prophecy.

Again, the 7 Feasts prove the TIMING of the Pre Trib Rapture but you refuse to admit the obvious, but who cares, you will have to answer for your untruths.

LOL. Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation? Why not be honest before God and men and admit it is not there. It belongs to the Left Behind novels.

 

[David in NJ]

That's the whole point, its not the Second Coming as in Jesus coming to the earth a "second time", its the 2nd Advent. The Rapture thus can happen before the 2nd Advent, Jesus comes to meet us in the are, just as the scriptures say, and of course that is my whole point, this is not his second coming, its a misnomer, thus the ignorance is all yours. Rev. 19 can not happen without a Pre Trib Rapture, I don't know why I waste time with people who obviously are not called unto Prophecy.

Again, the 7 Feasts prove the TIMING of the Pre Trib Rapture but you refuse to admit the obvious, but who cares, you will have to answer for your untruths.

lolx100

this was GREAT - thank you for the reply

the BEST was "Rev 19 cannot happen without a pre-trib rapture"

But listen, i can laugh at myself = if i'm wrong.
Please indulge me on how Rev 19 cannot happen without a pre-trib rapture.

Peace

 

[ewq1938]

The bad people were TAKEN, destroyed. You miss the point entirely.

No, you have confused two different Greek words. paralambano is not the other word translated as "took" (airo)

You would want to be taken into the Ark and taken away by the Ark, not left behind outside of the Ark in the cities people stayed in until the flood killed them.

The first new action is applied to the one taken because it happens first. This would be Noah entering the Ark, and Lot leaving Sodom, and the wise virgins being taken by the bridegroom. In each story the one taken are saved. It is the one left behind that is the one who dies, taken in judgment, not taken to the wedding etc. That's even what the word "left" means in Greek. Be taken like the wise virgins and don't be the foolish virgins that Christ left behind.

Even in the OT and the plague of hail teaches the one taken from the field was taken to safety and the one left in the field died from the hail.

Taken to safety is always first in the various examples and stories. It is always the second one which remains in the same place and wicked spiritual condition which suffers and dies.

Paul never taught "rapture" of any kind.

Yes he did, and he used the Greek word for rapture which is harpazo. You are severely ignorant of various Greek words and you need to start studying them so you can stop falsely teaching.

 

[Illuminator]

No, you have confused two different Greek words. paralambano is not the other word translated as "took" (airo)

I am debating in English, not Greek. Translating my English common sense and logic into Greek is playing word games.

Yes he did, and he used the Greek word for rapture which is harpazo. You are severely ignorant of various Greek words and you need to start studying them so you can stop falsely teaching.

Then explain why the Latin word for "rapture" translates from rapiemur.

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been “amillennial” (as has been the majority Christian position in general), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called “millenarianism” (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism “cannot safely be taught,” though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word “rapture” to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term “rapture” is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—”we will be caught up,” [Latin: rapiemur]).

Spinning Wheels?​

Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, “But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. . . . But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace” (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

The Rapture

Discover Catholic teachings on the Rapture. Pre, Mid, or Post? Find clarity on the 'end times'. Here's what the Church teaches about the apocalypse."

www.catholic.com

 

[ewq1938]

I am debating in English, not Greek.

Debate in English is fine but only if one has some basic education in Greek otherwise it's a one sided debate not in your favor. Advice: stop claiming Paul didn't speak of a rapture. Of course he did and everyone who knows even the slightest about Greek knows he did.

 

[The Light]

Notice that as in the days of Noah, the bad people were destroyed, and Noah and his family were LEFT BEHIND.

LOL. I'm thinking when that ark was lifted off the surface of the earth, the people outside in the rain were yelling.......Don't leave us here.

That's because the rapture theory was invented in 1860 by John Darby,

You might want to RE - SEARCH that, if you are interested in the truth.

inserted into the footnotes of the Thompson Chain Reference Bible a few years later, and adopted as doctrine by Modernist liberals a few years after that. Since the 1960's, millions of sensationalist books, videos and movies advocating a fad theology. Jesus will return ONCE, not 1 1/2 times. Many of the more mature Protestant denominations have rejected the rapture theory as biblically bankrupt.
BTW, John Nelson Darby was co-founder of the Plymouth Brethren Church, founded in 1829.

I didn't know John Nelson Darby. I just read the Word.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[The Light]

You avoided my question again. Do you believe there is a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord?

Of course. That's what the Word says. But there are other comings that you seem unaware of also. There is Jesus coming for the 144, 000 first fruits of the second harvest.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[WPM]

Of course. That's what the Word says. But there are other comings that you seem unaware of also. There is Jesus coming for the 144, 000 first fruits of the second harvest.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

These are the first-fruits of God from the 1st century. They are reigning in heaven now. So, where is your imaginary Pretrib rapture in Revelation? You have ducked around this question for along enough. You know you do not have it. Where is your 7-years trib? Where is your 3rd coming?

 

[The Light]

These are the first-fruits of God from the 1st century.

1st Century. So Jesus came back in the first century? So is that your second coming followed by a 7 year tribulation followed by a 3rd coming?

They are reigning in heaven now. So, where is your imaginary Pretrib rapture in Revelation? You have ducked around this question for along enough. You know you do not have it. Where is your 7-years trib? Where is your 3rd coming?

Ducked around? LOL. I showed you 4 comings and now you try and take one and put it in the 1st century. That's creative.

 

[WPM]

1st Century. So Jesus came back in the first century? So is that your second coming followed by a 7 year tribulation followed by a 3rd coming?


Ducked around? LOL. I showed you 4 comings and now you try and take one and put it in the 1st century. That's creative.

Jesus came 2000 years ago. He is coming once more to judge the world in righteousness - judging the living and the dead. There is no such thing as a 7-year tribulation or a 3rd coming. That is an illusion you have been deceived with. You can keep avoiding the simple questions. But in doing so, you are exposing your fairy tales to the lurkers. This is why Pretrib is falling apart amongst the people of God. It is a man-made doctrine found in the Left Behind novels, not God's Book.

So, where is your imaginary Pretrib rapture in Revelation? You have ducked around this question for along enough. You know you do not have it. Where is your 7-years trib? Where is your 3rd coming?

 

[Illuminator]

Debate in English is fine but only if one has some basic education in Greek otherwise it's a one sided debate not in your favor.

I don't pick and choose from a list of meanings for certain Greek words and force it to fit an agenda..

Advice: stop claiming Paul didn't speak of a rapture. Of course he did and everyone who knows even the slightest about Greek knows he did.

Paul spoke of a rapture but not the relativistic liberal Modernist versions of pre, mid and post tribulation that popped up out of nowhere in the past 200 years. It's fad theology. Dispensationalists can't agree on much of anything. The Holy Spirit is not the author of all this pre, mid and post confusion.

Beginning in the 1830s with John Nelson Darby (the father of the Rapture), dispensationalists like William Blackstone, Scofield, Dwight L. Moody, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Charles Ryrie, Lindsey, and Kirban have been claiming that the Rapture will occur in their lifetimes or within "this generation" (Lindsey's favorite phrase). However, if readers learned a bit of the history of the Rapture, they might not be so prone to fall for it in all its various forms — especially as recycled, warmed-up, Left Behind leftovers.​

Library : Recycled Rapture

Recycled Rapture This is a comparison between the Left Behind Rapture books by LaHaye/Jenkins and a remarkably similar book written 30 years ago by Salem Kirban, titled 666.

www.catholicculture.org

Although some Church Fathers, such as Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, apparently believed in a future millennium reign on earth—a central belief of dispensationalists—none of the Fathers believed in a secret Rapture. It was a nineteenth-century ex-Anglican priest, John Nelson Darby, who assembled the dispensational system, one that “sharply divides between two divine plans for history, one for an ‘earthly people’ (the Jews) and one for a ‘heavenly people’ (the Church).” This flowed from Darby’s flawed and pessimistic ecclesiology and his hatred of both the Catholic Church and mainline Protestant denominations.​

Rapture Claptrap | Catholic Answers

Search the world's largest database of answers about the beliefs and practices of the Catholic faith. Learn more about Catholicism through articles, books, videos and more.

www.catholic.com

 

[The Light]

Jesus came 2000 years ago. He is coming once more to judge the world in righteousness - judging the living and the dead.

Exactly.

There is no such thing as a 7-year tribulation or a 3rd coming.

So are you denying that there is a 70th week of Daniel?

That is an illusion you have been deceived with.

Tell me blind man. What do you see?

You can keep avoiding the simple questions.

I have answered and you go off pretending that the question has not been answered. It's just not me that you do that to. I have seen this pattern time and time again. What are you afraid of. The truth?

But in doing so, you are exposing your fairy tales to the lurkers.

Your blindness to the truth of the Word of God is just fact. Some have ears to hear and eyes to see., others don't. That's just the way it is.

This is why Pretrib is falling apart amongst the people of God. It is a man-made doctrine found in the Left Behind novels, not God's Book.

Some people are watching for the soon return of the Master. Some people aren't. Which are following the Words of our Lord and Savior, those that are watching for His return or those that think He comes after the wrath of God. That means your beliefs have the Church going through the wrath of God, in spite of the fact that the Word says that we are not appointed to wrath. One of many examples that prove your beliefs are unscriptural.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So, where is your imaginary Pretrib rapture in Revelation?

Revelation 3,4 and 5 as I have already showed you. I get it though. No eyes to see. No ears to hear. No understanding. Just blindness to the Word.

You have ducked around this question for along enough. You know you do not have it.

Quit whining. I cannot help your blindness. If you can't see your question has been answered before, that's just your denial.

Where is your 7-years trib?

Here are the first six years.

Revleation 6
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Here is another view of the 1st 6 years.

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The tribulation is over when Jesus returns at the 6th seal. The last year is the wrath of God which begins after the 7th seal is opened and ends when the 7th trumpet is blown when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

 

[The Light]

Where is your 3rd coming?

Here is the result of Jesus having come for His Church. The Lord himself comes for His Church and remains in the clouds. He takes them before the throne

Revleation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

They are in heaven before the seals are opened

Are you having trouble understanding this because Jesus did not draw you a roadmap with X marks the spot and time. Here's why you don't get that.

Matthew 24
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Here is Jesus coming to the earth for the 144.000 first fruits of the SECOND HARVEST.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Here is the second harvest. It occurs at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. It is the same coming as Matthew 24.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is the second advent. This occurs at the end of the trumpets and another view is the end of the vials.

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So again, I have answered your questions. Do you have eyes to see? No. I just showed you the result of Jesus having come for His Church. I showed you Jesus coming for the first fruits of the second harvest. I showed you the second harvest and I showed you the second advent. Do you understand these things? No. You will go back to your blindness and claim I am still dodging your questions. I can't help you to see.

 

[WPM]

Tell me blind man. What do you see? ...

Your blindness to the truth of the Word of God is just fact. Some have ears to hear and eyes to see., others don't. That's just the way it is.


Some people are watching for the soon return of the Master. Some people aren't. Which are following the Words of our Lord and Savior, those that are watching for His return or those that think He comes after the wrath of God. That means your beliefs have the Church going through the wrath of God, in spite of the fact that the Word says that we are not appointed to wrath. One of many examples that prove your beliefs are unscriptural.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


Revelation 3,4 and 5 as I have already showed you. I get it though. No eyes to see. No ears to hear. No understanding. Just blindness to the Word.


Quit whining. I cannot help your blindness. If you can't see your question has been answered before, that's just your denial.


Here are the first six years.

Revleation 6
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Here is another view of the 1st 6 years.

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The tribulation is over when Jesus returns at the 6th seal. The last year is the wrath of God which begins after the 7th seal is opened and ends when the 7th trumpet is blown when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

Here you go again with your insults and false accusations. That is where Pretribbers always end up in debates because they have no Scripture. This is another sign that you have lost the debate.

You keep mentioning Revelation 3, 4 and 5 as being the Pretrib rapture. Well, could you quote and highlight the supposed mention of it in those texts instead of your usual avoidance? Where is the actual clear literal mention of a Pretrib rapture in those chapters? You cannot build a doctrine on imaginations. So, it is time to come up with the biblical evidence.

So your tribulation period has now changed to 6 years? Your supposed evidence is Revelation 6 and Matthew 24. Where is 6 years even mentioned in these chapters? You are definitely winging it. You are all over the place. It would be a lot wiser for you to abandon this man-made doctrine and embrace the truth.

When we examine the time-periods embodied within Revelation 4-19 we significantly find that they add up to a period of 19 years, 4 ½ days and 3 hours.

No imaginary 6-year trib!

 

[The Light]

Here you go again with your insults and false accusations. That is where Pretribbers always end up in debates because they have no Scripture. This is another sign that you have lost the debate.

No scripture? As I said, BLINDNESS. The FACT that you don't understand scripture certainly doesn't mean none has been posted. You just stand in denial and lie to yourself. Here you might have have missed this because you cannot see.

Here is the result of Jesus having come for His Church. The Lord himself comes for His Church and remains in the clouds. He takes them before the throne

Revleation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

They are in heaven before the seals are opened

Are you having trouble understanding this because Jesus did not draw you a roadmap with X marks the spot and time. Here's why you don't get that.

Matthew 24
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Here is Jesus coming to the earth for the 144.000 first fruits of the SECOND HARVEST.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Here is the second harvest. It occurs at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. It is the same coming as Matthew 24.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is the second advent. This occurs at the end of the trumpets and another view is the end of the vials.

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So again, I have answered your questions. Do you have eyes to see? No. I just showed you the result of Jesus having come for His Church. I showed you Jesus coming for the first fruits of the second harvest. I showed you the second harvest and I showed you the second advent. Do you understand these things? No. You will go back to your blindness and claim I am still dodging your questions. I can't help you to see.

 

[The Light]

You keep mentioning Revelation 3, 4 and 5 as being the Pretrib rapture. Well, could you quote and highlight the supposed mention of it in those texts instead of your usual avoidance?

All you have is denial the facts, as if that's something to have. I wonder how many times in these 3 Amillennial threads you have said people are avoiding answering your question, when in fact a detailed answer was provided. BTW, I have already answered this in another thread. I don't feel like wasting my time looking for it or re-answering something there's not a snowballs chance your would understand anyway. I could answer you again but I already know the response. "you are avoiding the question" No, your just blind that it has been answered.

 

[The Light]

Where is the actual clear literal mention of a Pretrib rapture in those chapters?

The CLEAR answer that you so desperately seek is found right here.

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

For those that understand the Word, we are watching so our house will not be broken up. For those not watching, they are not following the Lord's instruction and further don't believe Him.

You cannot build a doctrine on imaginations. So, it is time to come up with the biblical evidence.

I just posted 4 comings of Jesus that you can't see. How can the blind see?

So your tribulation period has now changed to 6 years? Your supposed evidence is Revelation 6 and Matthew 24. Where is 6 years even mentioned in these chapters? You are definitely winging it. You are all over the place. It would be a lot wiser for you to abandon this man-made doctrine and embrace the truth.

There will is still one week left when God turns His attention to His Chosen. That's seven years. Of those 7 years, one year is the wrath of God. Again, not even the slightest of chances that you will understand, but I will post a verse anyway. The 4th verse of Isaiah 34 should tell anyone with eyes to see that Isaiah is talking about what happens at the 6th seal.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:8 tells you that the wrath of God is one year long.
Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

I know all you can do is claim that I am avoiding your questions, because that's all you have. And you think walking without understanding and denying the truth is some kind of victory. Nope. Sorry.

When we examine the time-periods embodied within Revelation 4-19 we significantly find that they add up to a period of 19 years, 4 ½ days and 3 hours.

No imaginary 6-year trib!

Ok now your turn. EXPLAIN where you get 19 years, 4.5 days and 3 hours from.

 

[WPM]

No scripture? As I said, BLINDNESS. The FACT that you don't understand scripture certainly doesn't mean none has been posted. You just stand in denial and lie to yourself. Here you might have have missed this because you cannot see.

Here is the result of Jesus having come for His Church. The Lord himself comes for His Church and remains in the clouds. He takes them before the throne

Revleation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

They are in heaven before the seals are opened

Are you having trouble understanding this because Jesus did not draw you a roadmap with X marks the spot and time. Here's why you don't get that.

Matthew 24
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Here is Jesus coming to the earth for the 144.000 first fruits of the SECOND HARVEST.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Here is the second harvest. It occurs at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. It is the same coming as Matthew 24.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is the second advent. This occurs at the end of the trumpets and another view is the end of the vials.

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So again, I have answered your questions. Do you have eyes to see? No. I just showed you the result of Jesus having come for His Church. I showed you Jesus coming for the first fruits of the second harvest. I showed you the second harvest and I showed you the second advent. Do you understand these things? No. You will go back to your blindness and claim I am still dodging your questions. I can't help you to see.

LOL. More avoidance. That is all you have. Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation 3, 4 and 5?

 

[WPM]

The CLEAR answer that you so desperately seek is found right here.

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

For those that understand the Word, we are watching so our house will not be broken up. For those not watching, they are not following the Lord's instruction and further don't believe Him.


I just posted 4 comings of Jesus that you can't see. How can the blind see?

There will is still one week left when God turns His attention to His Chosen. That's seven years. Of those 7 years, one year is the wrath of God. Again, not even the slightest of chances that you will understand, but I will post a verse anyway. The 4th verse of Isaiah 34 should tell anyone with eyes to see that Isaiah is talking about what happens at the 6th seal.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:8 tells you that the wrath of God is one year long.
Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

I know all you can do is claim that I am avoiding your questions, because that's all you have. And you think walking without understanding and denying the truth is some kind of victory. Nope. Sorry.


Ok now your turn. EXPLAIN where you get 19 years, 4.5 days and 3 hours from.

Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation 3, 4 and 5?

 

[WPM]

All you have is denial the facts, as if that's something to have. I wonder how many times in these 3 Amillennial threads you have said people are avoiding answering your question, when in fact a detailed answer was provided. BTW, I have already answered this in another thread. I don't feel like wasting my time looking for it or re-answering something there's not a snowballs chance your would understand anyway. I could answer you again but I already know the response. "you are avoiding the question" No, your just blind that it has been answered.

Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation 3, 4 and 5?