Doubt: Am I Really Saved?

[dev553344]

If you ever find a verse that “ appears” to be saying that you can lose your Salvation, rest assured that has at least one of two problems—— the verse was either taken out of context, or the verse was not being addressed to Believers...you can take that to the bank

The following verse applies to those that were saved and fell away clearly, so no you didn't get that correct. But honestly I don't think my discussion is being taken seriously. People that go around saying they are saved because someone taught them that is heresy at best. I'm going to back out of this converstation as it is not fruitful:

Hebrews 6:1-6​

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New King James Version​

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The Peril of Not Progressing​

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

 

[Gospel Believer]

The following verse applies to those that were saved and fell away clearly, so no you didn't get that correct. But honestly I don't think my discussion is being taken seriously. People that go around saying they are saved because someone taught them that is heresy at best. I'm going to back out of this converstation as it is not fruitful:

Hebrews 6:1-6​

​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

​

The Peril of Not Progressing​

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

I believe the following clears up the confusion with Heb 6:4.....it came from the excellent site “ Grace through faith” .....check out the question and answer section....it is the best that I have ever seen...

There are two facets to our relationship with God. There is union, which happens at the moment of salvation and guarantees our eternity with Him (2 Cor. 1:21-22, 2 Cor. 5:5, Ephes. 1:13-14, Ephes 4:30) and there is fellowship, the ability to dwell in His presence and communicate with Him in the here and now (John 15:4-5). Union is unconditional and is based on our belief. Fellowship is conditional and is based on our behavior.
The context of Hebrews 6 is interrupting our fellowship with God, not breaking our union. The key is the phrase “renew again to repentance.” Jewish believers were being pressured into keeping the law, especially where it concerned the daily sacrifice for sin. Those who relied on the daily sacrifice instead of invoking 1 John 1:9 (confessing directly to God) were in effect crucifying the Lord all over again, since He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. The daily sacrifice was a foreshadowing of Him, and when He came the shadow gave way to the reality. The old way was no longer sufficient to restore them to fellowship (Hebr. 10:1-18).
Since 1 John 1:9 says that confession brings forgiveness and purification from all unrighteousness (renewal again to repentance), then by implication, anything other than confessing our sins prevents forgiveness and purification and causes estrangement from God. It doesn’t revoke our salvation, but because God can’t be in the presence of sin, it does suspend our relationship, depriving us of blessings we could have otherwise had.
There are many clear verses that unequivocally promise eternal security. Since the Bible cannot contradict itself and still be the Word of God, interpreting Hebrews 6 as having anything to do with salvation is a violation of the rules of interpretation, which teaches that we’re to use clear verses to interpret obscure ones, not the other way around.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“ And it is *GOD* that will KEEP US STRONG and will present as BLAMELESS on the Day Of Judgement”

I am convinced that the Bible is secondary to people’s church doctrine.

Your response is a great example in face of scripture that says no such thing unconditionally.

 

[Adam]

Yes, all those who:

“…continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23)

I quoted Luke, why are you quoting a different book entirely?

 

[Always Believing]

Yes, a warning not to act on the lust of the flesh.

He did not say, “go, and I will prevent you from sinning”.

I never could understood anyone that is unwilling to compute the difference. That's just lying to ourselves. We walk hand in hand with Jesus willingly. He doesn't handcuff us to Himself and drag us along to glory. That is sort of self-explanatory isn't it?

 

[Always Believing]

......and, of course, from that point on , these people became just as perfect and as sinless as Jesus Himself, right? Lol.....yeah, sure.....

Wow. I haven't quite seen anyone just let her rip and mock walking as He walked. There really are scoffers in the last days. And laughing all the way too.

 

[Always Believing]

That's not a warning. It's a commandment. “Go, and sin no more.” The warning is “lest a worse things happens to you.”

Well yeah, there is hell afterall. That would be worse than a simple stoning.

 

[Always Believing]

How about this:

I've never seen so many Bible verses packed into one place just to say Hitler is in heaven now. I used to try and think that when I wanted to be saved without repenting. However I never came up with a scenario of dying the death of a murderer going to hell and then being resurrected like Jesus. I didn't have enough Bible 'knowledge' to imagine that one. But now with knowledge, I now know we can certainly die as murderers and go to hell and won't be left there, because we'll live again with the rest of the wicked dead just long enough to be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Here's a Bible verse you left out that may help set your mind right on the possibilities.

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I quoted Luke, why are you quoting a different book entirely?

Because the other book gives us more understanding in doctrine.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

I perceive that you have received extra biblical training that causes you to remain in biblical ignorance. Forever in a state of imperfection.

 

[BarneyFife]

Hello brethren! If I may, I would like to open this new thread for those who experience doubt about their salvation, to test ones faith, and to ask questions, and to know the truth.

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I like this thread. I don't tie my salvation to my faithfulness, but God does, in a way (another subject). However, he grants to every man a measure of faith, and will be faithful to complete the good work He has done in us. This love and faithfulness that He has for us is the only effective motive for our faithfulness and obedience. Duty rendered under any other circumstances is legalism and is the basis of every counterfeit religion.
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[Adam]

I've never seen so many Bible verses packed into one place just to say Hitler is in heaven now. I used to try and think that when I wanted to be saved without repenting. However I never came up with a scenario of dying the death of a murderer going to hell and then being resurrected like Jesus. I didn't have enough Bible 'knowledge' to imagine that one. But now with knowledge, I now know we can certainly die as murderers and go to hell and won't be left there, because we'll live again with the rest of the wicked dead just long enough to be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Here's a Bible verse you left out that may help set your mind right on the possibilities.

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

And yet, all flesh shall see the salvation of God because all crooked ways will be made straight. These aren't my words, this is from the Bible.

First comes the correction, then comes the eternal life. No one who has hate has eternal life, so the correction is that God removes his hate through chastisement. Same with any other sin.

Psalm 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Because the other book gives us more understanding in doctrine.

No, it is a completely different sermon on a completely different topic, by a completely different author. It is a complete non-sequitur.

Did John the Baptist say "All crooked ways will be made straight, all flesh will see the salvation of God" or did he say "you will be made straight only if you do this or that"? You nullify the words of the Bible by taking another unrelated verse and arbitrarily tie them together in order to try to negate the teachings of the former. All flesh will see the salvation of God. If it involves chastisement, it involves chastisement, but God will not leave your soul in hell.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

So why do you not listen when the Bible says that God will ultimately save all mankind?

I perceive that you have received extra biblical training that causes you to remain in biblical ignorance. Forever in a state of imperfection.

I came from a state of ignorance, having been raised in Catholic school with traditional views on etetnal hell, then leaving Catholicism to become a traditional Baptist believing in sola scriptura, only to leave this too when it became apparent that the idea of eternal hell is not and never was what the Bible teaches.

Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

The idea of eternal salvation for all is there in the Bible, in plain language, but for political reasons it was removed, because a fearmongering idea of eternal hell is easier to use to manipulate people to serve manmade institutions.

Mark 7
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The idea of eternal hell is contrary to that of God's eternal love, and furthermore, completely negates the idea of ALL mankind being made in the image of God and worthy of love. It logically follows from the idea of eternal hell, that many people are subhumans created only to be damned, and who exist only to be enemies of Christians. However - the Bible does not and never has teached any such thing. The doctrines of eternal hell promote hatred for the benefit of political institutions, wolves in sheep's clothing. It is the same now as it was in Jesus' day with the Pharisees.

 

[Mantis]

It used to be terrifying when the Holy Spirit revealed what a sinner I was. It was like serious self reflection. I didn’t even realize how much of a sinner I was until I met true righteousness. Eventually the security just came to me. When I really understood what Jesus said. Don’t fear.

 

[Adam]

Matthew 21:31
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

The word is proagousin: to lead forward, lead forth

There is an order which people go into the kingdom of God. The harlots and publicans will go into the kingdom of God before the self-righteous religious people Jesus was addressing. However, Jesus did not say that the pharisees (the very people who killed Jesus) would not enter into the kingdom of God, only that they would enter after the harlots and publicans. They would first have to be cleansed of their sins through chastisement, to a degree greater than the harlots that they saw themselves as being above.

If hell were eternal, there would not be a before or after, only, you will or won't enter the kingdom of God. However, Jesus said, both sinners and his very executioners will go into it, each in their own time. Paul corroborated this as well:

1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[sheariah07]

It used to be terrifying when the Holy Spirit revealed what a sinner I was. It was like serious self reflection. I didn’t even realize how much of a sinner I was until I met true righteousness. Eventually the security just came to me. When I really understood what Jesus said. Don’t fear.

Yes. That is actually the goal of the Word of God, to show us how sinful we are and wretched. I also experienced what you did and Jesus saved me from all my fears. That's why I am compelled to find others who are going through this as well.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul often speaks hypothetically about being saved and free from sin. That does not mean it applies to everyone forever. There are other scriptures that teach that you can lose your salvation. It also teaches that when we lose our salvation to repent.

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Which appears to be what you are doing with scripture.

It was not hypothetical, anymore than Jesus dying was hypothetical. What a slap in the face to my Lord.

The desire to sin is gone. Our conscience is super-sensitized and we don't want to quench the Spirit and commit a sin unto death - the only way we can lose our salvation. Who would want to when you know what is ahead? Heaven

What repentance? Can you put Jesus to death again? Hebrews 10:26-31

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Is that a question or an accusation? Many questions are used to mask accusations especially when you go on to tell how not to be what we are being 'questioned' about. When I talk about the Lord let's me know at times something needs to be cleared up between us that does not include what I know is sinning. Like an good marriage we just have to get certain things made right that was not known by the other and certainly not intentional.

If my wife let's me know about something I did that is bothering her, it's not adultery or getting bar hopping drunk. Those days are over for me. Wilful sinners need to get saved no matter what religion they claim.

Don't you know to tell the truth. If you believe you will always be a sinner saved by grace, you are not living in victory. Say you are a child of God, and NOT a sinner. "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he."

Get it?

The little spats you have with your spouse are NOT sins unto death that we can lose our salvation over. They can be forgiven through forgiving each other. Matthew 6:14-15. Review it.

Just don't kill her - that IS a sin unto death.

 

[Always Believing]

Don't you know to tell the truth. If you believe you will always be a sinner saved by grace, you are not living in victory. Say you are a child of God, and NOT a sinner. "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he."

Get it?

The little spats you have with your spouse are NOT sins unto death that we can lose our salvation over. They can be forgiven through forgiving each other. Matthew 6:14-15. Review it.

Just don't kill her - that IS a sin unto death.

I don't play the game of explaining myself three different ways to make it clear. If you get this from what I write, then you want to find it no matter what I write.

This is shown by referring to my marriage example with the Lord as a spat. And that I'm somehow lying. I have no reason to lie to anyone here, because that would mean I care enough to. You need to back away take a breath and reread and then comment on specifics.

 

[Always Believing]

And yet, all flesh shall see the salvation of God because all crooked ways will be made straight. These aren't my words, this is from the Bible.

Yes, and is made crooked to mean something else. All flesh on earth that believes shall see His salvation and be made straight. Not all souls already in hell for not repenting. The Bible says it's either now in the flesh or never in the hereafter. Today is the the day, not tomorrow after death. There is no purgatory no matter what Dante thinks.

First comes the correction, then comes the eternal life.

We either have the eternal life of Jesus Christ within us now, or never. Having eternal life is only given now on earth. Those not written in the lamb's book of life are cast into the lake of fire.

No one who has hate has eternal life, so the correction is that God removes his hate through chastisement. Same with any other sin.

Hate is not a sin. We are to love righteousness and hate iniquity. Correction is the comfort of the Holy Ghost in this life to love our neighbors and not hate them.

Sorry Adam, but you're talking more like the first one than the second. We do not become as gods by knowing how to do evil and good.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don't play the game of explaining myself three different ways to make it clear. If you get this from what I write, then you want to find it no matter what I write.

This is shown by referring to my marriage example with the Lord as a spat. And that I'm somehow lying. I have no reason to lie to anyone here, because that would mean I care enough to. You need to back away take a breath and reread and then comment on specifics.

I'm a teacher. I have no vile hidden agenda. Many do not know the different levels of sin, so they call themselves sinners when Jesus was manifest to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. Do you know why this statement is true?

You and Gospel Believer seem to want to mock me. But why did Jesus spend 3 years teaching that we are to be perfect? Have you two been dealt the hand of doctrines of demons to believe instead of the truth. The truth will set you FREE. Do you know what we are even free from? Go ahead and mock. Be always learning but never come to the knowledge of the truth. The life Jesus walked is the example of a born again Christian. We are not born again to walk as we used to with the sin nature we inherited from Adam's sin. NO! Nor are we to just memorize commandments and do all 613 of them without missing a beat. Do you even know how the New Covenant is different from the Old Covenant of death?

I shudder to think what most people on these forums have been taught to believe. Jesus - 0/ Satan - 1000

 

[Always Believing]

You and Gospel Believer seem to want to mock me.

No we just want you to not begin 'questions' with false assumptions. If you want to know what I believe and how I live just ask without all the innuendo of being this or that.

I doesn't matter how long we may be in leadership positions, simple rules of courtesy and objective debate still applies. I've found many times the longer someone is in leadership the less they remember such things, because they get used to judging things by appearance rather than by righteousness.

I've been there and done that and unnecessarily estranged a few people with assuming I knew what they were talking about and not bothering to ask them to clarify. Instead I just plowed right in with the truth and did more harm than good.

"But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."

We are called to correct and rebuke, but let's just make sure we're rebuking the right thing.