Drinking Alcohol, should a Christian do it?

[Dan Clarkston]

It is amazing that Jesus does forgive those who end up harming children

He does not just automatically forgive sin.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I do believe that a person who is in Christ desires not to sin. Putting the old life into the grave and raising to newness of life in Christ.

And some are taught they are saved whether they sin or not so they go back to sin.

 

[MatthewG]

He does not just automatically forgive sin.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.






And some are taught they are saved whether they sin or not so they go back to sin.

So the question to me, did Jesus pay for the sins of all people, or only those who confess? That is very conflicting.

Here is something Paul shared with the Corinthians. Does all things mean all things?

"All things are lawful to me," but not all things do profit. "All things are lawful to me," but I will not be mastered by anything.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

So the question to me, did Jesus pay for the sins of all people, or only those who confess? That is very conflicting.

The bigger question is, is it OK with the Lord for us to turn our backs on Him and live in sin and we still expect Him to allow us in to Heaven even though we chose to serve sin over serving Him?

All things are lawful to me

So one could molest children and still be saved?

 

[O'Darby]

I admittedly haven't been paying attention, but this thread has evolved from "having a beer" to "molesting children" and "living in sin"?

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

This is what we lawyers call a "slippery slope" argument: "If you allow people to drink a beer at a baseball game, your honor, then the next thing you know they'll be knocking back 25 brewskies at a time, molesting children, living in sin, consorting with demons and GOING TO HELL!!"

When used in that manner, it's more properly called the Slippery Slope Fallacy: Slippery Slope.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

it's more properly called the Slippery Slope Fallacy: Slippery Slope.

And yet the Word of God frames sin as being progressive in this way from simple temptation that eventually grows in to death:

James 1:13-15
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

And in the crime world we see ALL the time how young people start off skipping school, a little shop lifting and as they grow older they graduate to drug dealing, rape, murder.

So yeah the slipper slope thing is very frequently not a fallacy at all and is in fact reality.

Of course defense attorneys claim it never works like this and their client is not a sinner at all

 

[O'Darby]

And yet the Word of God frames sin as being progressive in this way from simple temptation that eventually grows in to death:

James 1:13-15
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

And in the crime world we see ALL the time how young people start off skipping school, a little shop lifting and as they grow older they graduate to drug dealing, rape, murder.

So yeah the slipper slope thing is very frequently not a fallacy at all and is in fact reality.

Of course defense attorneys claim it never works like this and their client is not a sinner at all

Correlation does not imply causation.

Young Master O'Darby did massive amounts of shoplifting. It was almost a hobby when I was 9 or 10, and I was extremely good at it. As it happens, however, Old Fart O'Darby somehow avoided the progression to drug dealing, rape and murder, being more inclined to "waste a lot of money on golf."

Your thinking on these issues is like something out of - I don't know - the Spanish Inquisition, perhaps? Have a beer - you'll feel better and see the world in a whole new light.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Your thinking on these issues is like something out of - I don't know - the Spanish Inquisition, perhaps? Have a beer - you'll feel better and see the world in a whole new light.

It must be hard on you to not be able to see and understand everything produces after it's own kind.

Isaiah 3:10-11
Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings. Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him

Companion scripture for Isaiah 3:10-11 found in the New Testament:

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth (God’s Word), but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[O'Darby]

It must be hard on you to not be able to see and understand everything produces after it's own kind.

You are a veritable fount of fallacies, but you are fun.

"Having a beer" is not of the "same kind" as rape and murder.

With all due respect - truly, I'm sure you're a wonderful Christian - your thinking as set forth here is so extreme that either you aren't serious or you're living in a self-imposed straitjacket that would make the Pilgrim Fathers look like wild and crazy guys.

There is no reason to think having a beer is a sin at all. Being staggeringly drunk may well be a sin, but it is scarcely in the same class as rape and murder, nor is there any particular correlation between being staggeringly drunk and committing rape or murder.

 

[MatthewG]

The bigger question is, is it OK with the Lord for us to turn our backs on Him and live in sin and we still expect Him to allow us in to Heaven even though we chose to serve sin over serving Him?

Is God not able to make his decision?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

You are a veritable fount of fallacies

You are perpetually wrong and not really fun.

Doing a little evil turns in to doing more evil which turns in to doing a lot of evil.

We live in an age of lawlessness, but some would rather keep their head in the sand where it belongs with the people that don't know what's going on. They can't handle the truth.

Is God not able to make his decision?

God has already made His decision

Matthew 7:23
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[MatthewG]

God has already made His decision


Matthew 7:23
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Dan,

God will judge a believer and the life they lived. Some things may burn down, but even that person who had faith will still be saved.

 

[MatthewG]

In the long run, I still fall short of the glory of God, so not to worried @Dan Clarkston. All the best hope you have some good conversations, with the others here.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

God will judge a believer and the life they lived. Some things may burn down, but even that person who had faith will still be saved.

No, Jesus said workers of iniquity will be told to depart from Him.

It's the false doctrines of reformed theology that teach it's OK to live in sin and all that happens is we lose a few rewards.

No, we lose THE reward of spending eternity with the Lord if we live in sin.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)

 

[MatthewG]

”“Don’t judge others, and God will not judge you. If you judge others, you will be judged the same way you judge them. God will treat you the same way you treat others. “Why do you notice the small piece of dust that is in your friend’s eye, but you don’t notice the big piece of wood that is in your own? Why do you say to your friend, ‘Let me take that piece of dust out of your eye’? Look at yourself first! You still have that big piece of wood in your own eye. You are a hypocrite! First, take the wood out of your own eye. Then you will see clearly to get the dust out of your friend’s eye. “Don’t give something that is holy to dogs. They will only turn and hurt you. And don’t throw your pearls to pigs. They will only step on them. “Continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. “Do any of you have a son? If he asked for bread, would you give him a rock? Or if he asked for a fish, would you give him a snake? Of course not! You people are so bad, but you still know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him. “Do for others what you would want them to do for you. This is the meaning of the Law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets. “You can enter true life only through the narrow gate. The gate to hell is very wide, and there is plenty of room on the road that leads there. Many people go that way. But the gate that opens the way to true life is narrow. And the road that leads there is hard to follow. Only a few people find it. “Be careful of false prophets. They come to you and look gentle like sheep. But they are really dangerous like wolves. You will know these people because of what they do. Good things don’t come from people who are bad, just as grapes don’t come from thornbushes, and figs don’t come from thorny weeds. In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, and bad trees produce bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. You will know these false people by what they do. “Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God’s kingdom. The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. On that last Day many will call me Lord. They will say, ‘Lord, Lord, by the power of your name we spoke for God. And by your name we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ Then I will tell those people clearly, ‘Get away from me, you people who do wrong. I never knew you.’ “Whoever hears these teachings of mine and obeys them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. It rained hard, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house. But it did not fall because it was built on rock. “Whoever hears these teachings of mine and does not obey them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. It rained hard, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house. And it fell with a loud crash.” When Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed at his teaching. He did not teach like their teachers of the law. He taught like someone who has authority.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭1‬-‭29‬ ‭ERV‬‬

”Greetings from James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ. To God’s people who are scattered all over the world. My brothers and sisters, you will have many kinds of trouble. But this gives you a reason to be very happy. You know that when your faith is tested, you learn to be patient in suffering. If you let that patience work in you, the end result will be good. You will be mature and complete. You will be all that God wants you to be. Do any of you need wisdom? Ask God for it. He is generous and enjoys giving to everyone. So he will give you wisdom. But when you ask God, you must believe. Don’t doubt him. Whoever doubts is like a wave in the sea that is blown up and down by the wind. People like that are thinking two different things at the same time. They can never decide what to do. So they should not think they will receive anything from the Lord. Believers who are poor should be glad that God considers them so important. Believers who are rich should be glad when bad things happen that humble them. Their riches won’t keep them from disappearing as quickly as wildflowers. As the sun rises and gets hotter, its heat dries up the plants, and the flowers fall off. The flowers that were so beautiful are now dead. That’s how it is with the rich. While they are still making plans for their business, they will die. Great blessings belong to those who are tempted and remain faithful! After they have proved their faith, God will give them the reward of eternal life. God promised this to all people who love him. Whenever you feel tempted to do something bad, you should not say, “God is tempting me.” Evil cannot tempt God, and God himself does not tempt anyone. You are tempted by the evil things you want. Your own desire leads you away and traps you. Your desire grows inside you until it results in sin. Then the sin grows bigger and bigger and finally ends in death. My dear brothers and sisters, don’t be fooled about this. Everything good comes from God. Every perfect gift is from him. These good gifts come down from the Father who made all the lights in the sky. But God never changes like the shadows from those lights. He is always the same. God decided to give us life through the true message he sent to us. He wanted us to be the most important of all that he created. My dear brothers and sisters, always be more willing to listen than to speak. Keep control of your anger. Anger does not help you live the way God wants. So get rid of everything evil in your lives—every kind of wrong you do. Be humble and accept God’s teaching that is planted in your hearts. This teaching can save you. Do what God’s teaching says; don’t just listen and do nothing. When you only sit and listen, you are fooling yourselves. Hearing God’s teaching and doing nothing is like looking at your face in the mirror and doing nothing about what you saw. You go away and immediately forget how bad you looked. But when you look into God’s perfect law that sets people free, pay attention to it. If you do what it says, you will have God’s blessing. Never just listen to his teaching and forget what you heard. You might think you are a very religious person. But if your tongue is out of control, you are fooling yourself. Your careless talk makes your offerings to God worthless. The worship that God wants is this: caring for orphans or widows who need help and keeping yourself free from the world’s evil influence. This is the kind of worship that God accepts as pure and good.“
‭‭James‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭27‬ ‭ERV‬‬

@Dan Clarkston. I never said that it was good to go and cause trouble, and harm for your neighbor. That is sin itself, just as well as unfaithfulness by desire of choice. As a person who knows the Bible fairly well, my traits of darkness have taken a backend in the grave. I still have trouble and Yahavah, my Father knows what goes on with me and what my thorns are in my own side. However Gods grace is sufficient and his Son and his death was sufficient for all the world. Anyone who says they do not sin, makes God out to be a liar. There is transformation because of Jesus and him being our wisdom, righteousness, even sanctification. Praise God for the resurrection and new life which is given by faith, by and through the spirit! Which God desires for people to seek him in faith, and worship him in spirit and in truth.

All the best to you new active member, in Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

Gods teachings are self sacrificing by picking up one’s own cross. Not to be a judge for others, who make differing decisions than one personally may decide to choose and do. The gospel, is one of learning the Lord Yeshuas life, death, burial, and resurrection. Resurrection is vital in having newness of life. Without resurrection there is no newness of life and our faith is in vain cause Jesus never was risen from the dead.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

You are a veritable fount of fallacies, but you are fun.

What, another Extreme "fount of fallacy"?:

God has already made His decision

Matthew 7:23
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Nothing here about, a 'saint' drinking a little, and then increasing sin with rape and murder!
"What Saith The Scripture?" In "It's ENTIRE Context"?:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into​

the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father​

Which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in That Day, Lord, Lord,​

have we not prophesied in Thy Name? and in Thy Name have​

cast out devils? and in Thy Name done many wonderful works?​

​

And then will I profess unto them, I Never Knew you: Depart​

from Me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23 AV)​

​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

"God’s Sure Foundation Has This Seal”:

“The LORD Knoweth them that Are His!..." (2 Timothy 2:19 AV), Correct?​

​

How Long Has "The LORD Known them That Are HIS Own"?
(Ephesians 1:4-6 KJB) = Always, Correct? Because Of:

God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD! ​

​

This is Almost Correct?:

God will judge a believer and the life they lived. Some things may burn down, but even that person who had faith will still be saved.

God Will not Judge the Saved believer, but Will "Judge the believers" [ He Has "Always Known ]
good and bad works, According To:

"The Day" = The JUDGMENT Seat Of CHRIST!:​

​

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every​

man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.​

​

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry,​

ye are God's building. According The GRACE Of God Which Is Given​

unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and​

another buildeth Thereon.​

​

But let every man take heed how he buildeth Thereupon. For other​

foundation can no man lay than That is laid, Which Is JESUS CHRIST.​

Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver, precious stones,​

wood, hay, stubble;​

​

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The Day Shall​

Declare it, because it Shall Be Revealed by fire; and the fire​

Shall Try every man's work of what sort it is.​

​

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall​

receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall​

suffer loss: but he himself SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire."​

(1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)​

​

---------------------------------
Thus, even an astute lawyer, such as @O'Darby, would Never present this
absurdity, even to an earthly 'judge', eh?:

"The righteous that 'Christ Has Always Known,' who sin, will be condemned,​

Christ Saying: 'Depart from Me, I Never Knew you.'"​

Much less to God, The Righteous Judge of all, eh?

Amen.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, @GRACE ambassador those were the words that Paul wrote, concerning the matter which I was speaking about. Thank you.

 

[BlessedPeace]

If Jesus helped them all get drunk then he just committed sin.

A bit of study finds the stone jars the water was in were very expensive. Meaning this was a wedding amid people of wealth.
Most jars back then were clay.

This was also a Jewish wedding. Tradition demanded wine, not grape juice.

And being Jews were under the law at the time, they knew getting drunk was a sin. As of course did Jesus.

You are making presumptions.

He doesn't help people sin so the wine He created was fresh wine that had not yet had time to ferment.

Then the passage would have read, Jesus turned water into grape juice. It did not state that.
Jesus turned water into wine.

But I hear lots of alcoholics saying Jesus made alcoholic wine because He wanted people to all get drunk and have a good time at the party. Some think He brought in some weed, coke, acid, and magic mushrooms too in order to liven things up a bit.

You know a lot of non-Christian alcoholics.

It stands to reason they would speak so stupidly against the Savior.

Advocating that Jesus committed sin?

Christians would never do such a thing.

 

[BlessedPeace]

God loves everyone....

No, he doesn't.

15 Bible verses about God Hating People

A topical Bible which shows the most relevant Bible verse for each topic

bible.knowing-jesus.com

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Intoxication is one of the things the Lord says causes people to not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Post book, chapter and verse that proves your claim

Everyone these days thinks they can do a little sin and still be good with the Lord.

Ah, so, you're perfect and sinless.
Good for you.

That's sinful behavior.

Book, chapter, verse that says gambling is a sin.

It also says to avoid the appearance of evil and to be friends with the world makes one an enemy of God.

This is a good article for those who insist the ten commandments are no longer valid.

Evil Meaning - Bible Definition and References

Discover the meaning of Evil in the Bible. Study the definition of Evil with multiple Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopedias and find scripture references in the Old and New Testaments.

www.biblestudytools.com

There goes the security in sin gospel

No such thing. You are mistaken.

That's not actually what Jesus said now is it?

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Thanks for the verse. Yes, that is what Jesus said. It was obviously abbreviated so the member could make their point.

 

[bluedragon]

Nice try .......for the uniformed.

Mathew 25, says you are wrong. Three servants trusted with money. When the owner returns home .....Two have produced and gained money. Each rewarded but one. One buried the money in the sand and returned exactly what was given him ....He was driven from the property.

Some of your examples from the Old Testament ......this one from the New Testament. Who is right?

I have turned four failing Corporations around. My success led to people being paid more while business expanded. Increased employment and increased business. I enjoyed the fruits of my labor as well.

Your list reads like a "How to fail in business venture."

How do you provide for those in need if you can't succeed yourself ?

Careful trying to slice and dice the Bible to fit your cause ....