Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[FaithWillDo]

Do you actually understand what it means to be Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever?

What is imperishable seed?

What in you needs to be Born Again? It’s not complicated or rocket science?

Do you understand the Living Holy Spirit...do you understand that He is Gods Living witness in our heart/ spirit?

Dear Ritajanice,
Yes, I completely understand what is it to be born of imperishable seed. It means to be converted.

The seed is the Holy Spirit and it is imperishable because the Spirit does not sin. However, to be born of the Spirit requires BOTH the Early and Latter Rains.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The "precious fruit of the earth" is a converted believer. James is writing to believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and they are waiting for the Lord's return to give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. James is telling the unconverted believers to be patient for their time of conversion.

Scripture says that the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" and is only a small amount:

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain (Early Rain) in just measure, and he causes to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month.

Because the Spirit is given in measure when Christ first comes to a person, it will leave them spiritually blind and carnally minded. In this condition, the believer will not be converted but be easy prey for Satan to deceive.

Christ describes what happens to all new believers here:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

This same event is described here in the prophecy of the Two Witnesses (represents one Elect believer):

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

After an unconverted Elect believer comes under Satan's deceptions, they will remain spiritually dead and "worse than the first" until Christ comes to them a second time and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer will be born (converted) and the new child of God will be gathered up to heaven. This event is described here:

Rev 11:11 And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares also teaches about falling away and conversion:

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The sower is Christ. The "field" is a person. The seed is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

But shortly after the person receives the Early Rain, Satan will come to the person and plant his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within them, too.

Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Now the new believer has both the Early Rain of the Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within them. A spiritual war soon develops over which spirit will govern the new believer. Since the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in "measure", the spirit of anti-Christ wins the war and starts governing the believer. This is when the believer becomes "worse than the first"; a man of sin.

When the time for the harvest arrives, Christ will "come again" and give the fallen away Elect believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain of the Spirit comes with power and will easily defeat the spirit of anti-Christ. The converted child of God will then be harvested into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).

Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear (spiritual understanding).

This verse applies to the time of the harvest when the fallen away Elect believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive (spiritual blindness healed) and see that your wickedness is great (the man of sin revealed), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

The time of the harvest represents "conversion" and is when the believer is born again and gathered up to heaven.

Joe

 

[One 2 question]

Do you actually understand what it means to be Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever?

What is imperishable seed?

What in you needs to be Born Again? It’s not complicated or rocket science?

Do you understand the Living Holy Spirit...do you understand that He is Gods Living witness in our heart/ spirit?

Have you been Born Of The Spirit..by Gods Living witness the Holy Spirit?

Has your spirit been Born Again....or do you only understand the written word?

Yes, this is so common. Within the number of God fearing people I know the majority would acknowledge that the know the bible and live according to what they know in the bible but don't know the Spirit of God nor live by Him.

They don't have a relationship with the Living Spirit send to us by Father but have one with the bible which they refer to as living which obviously it isn't alive or living. There was no pulse in the bible the last time I checked. Unless the ones I had were the dead ones.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, this is so common. Within the number of God fearing people I know the majority would acknowledge that the know the bible and live according to what they know in the bible but don't know the Spirit of God nor live by Him.

They don't have a relationship with the Living Spirit send to us by Father but have one with the bible which they refer to as living which obviously it isn't alive or living. There was no pulse in the bible the last time I checked. Unless the ones I had were the dead ones.

Amen!!!

 

[Ritajanice]

Dear Ritajanice,
Yes, I completely understand what is it to be born of imperishable seed. It means to be converted.

The seed is the Holy Spirit and it is imperishable because the Spirit does not sin. However, to be born of the Spirit requires BOTH the Early and Latter Rains.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The "precious fruit of the earth" is a converted believer. James is writing to believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and they are waiting for the Lord's return to give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. James is telling the unconverted believers to be patient for their time of conversion.

Scripture says that the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" and is only a small amount:

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain (Early Rain) in just measure, and he causes to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month.

Because the Spirit is given in measure when Christ first comes to a person, it will leave them spiritually blind and carnally minded. In this condition, the believer will not be converted but be easy prey for Satan to deceive.

Christ describes what happens to all new believers here:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

This same event is described here in the prophecy of the Two Witnesses (represents one Elect believer):

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

After an unconverted Elect believer comes under Satan's deceptions, they will remain spiritually dead and "worse than the first" until Christ comes to them a second time and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer will be born (converted) and the new child of God will be gathered up to heaven. This event is described here:

Rev 11:11 And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares also teaches about falling away and conversion:

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The sower is Christ. The "field" is a person. The seed is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

But shortly after the person receives the Early Rain, Satan will come to the person and plant his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within them, too.

Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Now the new believer has both the Early Rain of the Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within them. A spiritual war soon develops over which spirit will govern the new believer. Since the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in "measure", the spirit of anti-Christ wins the war and starts governing the believer. This is when the believer becomes "worse than the first"; a man of sin.

When the time for the harvest arrives, Christ will "come again" and give the fallen away Elect believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain of the Spirit comes with power and will easily defeat the spirit of anti-Christ. The converted child of God will then be harvested into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).

Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear (spiritual understanding).

This verse applies to the time of the harvest when the fallen away Elect believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive (spiritual blindness healed) and see that your wickedness is great (the man of sin revealed), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

The time of the harvest represents "conversion" and is when the believer is born again and gathered up to heaven.

Joe

Thanks for voicing your own opinion...

I don’t agree with it.

 

[Ritajanice]

It means to be converted.

So, explain what converted means?

 

[Ritajanice]

Now the new believer has both the Early Rain of the Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within them

A Born Again has been Born Again of incorruptible seed....you cannot have the anti- Christ indwelling where the Spirit indwells..which is in our hearts/ spirit.
I have never heard such nonsense...
Now I am done with this nonsense, goodbye.

Good grief Lord, what is this nonsense?

 

[FaithWillDo]

So, explain what converted means?

Dear Ritajanice,
Conversion is to be changed from a child of the devil into a child of God. Conversion requires both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit before the precious fruit of the earth is ready for harvest into the Kingdom of Heaven.

This verse also applies to conversion:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

And this verse:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

The Sword is the Word of God who is Christ. Anyone who begins following Christ (Early Rain) will later perish by Christ (Latter Rain & judgment/death of the child of the devil).

Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

Dear Ritajanice,
Conversion is to be changed from a child of the devil into a child of God. Conversion requires both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit before the precious fruit of the earth is ready for harvest into the Kingdom of Heaven.

No it doesn’t..The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...obviously you aren’t understanding that Gods Living Holy Spirit is what makes our spirit Born Again.

This verse also applies to conversion:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

And this verse:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

The Sword is the Word of God who is Christ. Anyone who begins following Christ (Early Rain) will later perish by Christ (Latter Rain & judgment/death of the child of the devil).

Joe

We are Born Again, that is what the word of God says, now if you take that to mean what you believe it to mean, by posting what you post.

I 100% disagree with your theology Joe....I read absolutely no Spiritual Life whatsoever in your words...just commentary after commentary...that is my opinion.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Sword is the Word of God who is Christ. Anyone who begins following Christ (Early Rain) will later perish by Christ (Latter Rain & judgment/death of the child of the devil).

All I can say to this is.

Thank you Father God that I have your Living witness the Living Holy Spirit in my heart, that is witnessing to my heart / spirit that this post is a load of tosh!..in Jesus Name...Amen!!

Shaking my head at what I’m reading.

Walking away in disbelief....wondering exactly where they get this nonsense from....

 

[FaithWillDo]

A Born Again has been Born Again of incorruptible seed....you cannot have the anti- Christ indwelling where the Spirit indwells..which is in our hearts/ spirit.
I have never heard such nonsense...
Now I am done with this nonsense, goodbye.

Good grief Lord, what is this nonsense?

Dear Ritajanice,
You are ignoring what scripture teaches:

Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 LET BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Also consider what Paul says here:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

A believer's spiritual war takes place "within" themselves; between their ears so to speak.

Before the coming of the spirit of anti-Christ, the spiritual war was between a believer's carnal spirit and the Early Rain of the Spirit. But after the arrival of the spirit of anti-Christ within the believer, their original carnal spirit was made "worse than the first". With this strengthening, the person's carnal spirit wins the spiritual war and they begin being governed by their worsened carnality. Their "head" survives the deadly head wound by the Sword (Rev 13:3) when Christ gave the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. Satan remains the head of the person (represented by the Seven headed beast) who has now become an apostate believer (man of sin).

After the apostate believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the spiritual war resumes. However, this time, the Holy Spirit comes with power and quickly wins the spiritual war.

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory (this is the Latter Rain).

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the Latter and Early RAIN unto the earth.

When judgment comes, notice that both the spirit of anti-Christ (tares) and the Holy Spirit (wheat) are still within the believer who is being converted:

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field (one flesh/one believer); the one shall be taken (spirit of anti-Christ/man of sin), and the other left (Holy Spirit/child of God). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken (worsened marred/carnal spirit/Great Harlot), and the other left (Holy Spirit/child of God/Bride of Christ).

After the believer's judgment is complete, the spiritual war will end. The newly converted believer will then enter into the rest of Christ. At this point, the believer will never fall for Satan's deceptions again or lose their salvation.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

I agree that mankind does not have an eternal soul. All mankind will perish because all mankind has sinned. Death is the penalty of sin.

So what is the solution to this problem that mankind faces?

The solution is for mankind to be made into a new creation. The new creation is a child of God who is not under the penalty of death because the child of God is sinless. The spiritual process to make this change is called conversion/salvation.

To accomplish this great work of saving mankind, the Father sent Christ into the world:

Yes! I agree!
However, Jesus makes it plain and clear that in order for anyone to enter into the KoG. They must be "born again" NOW by His Spirit, aka the Holy Spirit, while they still have breath.

In regards to the death of Lazaruth, a believer, Jesus reveals that He Himself is the resurrection, and by that, we can safely conclude that there is no other!!
[25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?

So then, did you grasp the terms for how a resurrection is granted, whereby one shall never die? His answer is "whosoever LIVETH and BELIEVETH in me, SHALL NEVER DIE.

But wait, hold up... since everyone dies in their mortal bodies, how is it that a person shall never die??
Ans. For all who do live, and do believe in Jesus, it is they who shall never die.
However, people who died, that never CHOSE TO believe in Jesus, while they lived, SHALL NEVER LIVE AGAIN.
1 John 5:10-13.
[12] He that HATH the Son hath life [eternal]; and he that HATH NOT the Son of God hath not life [eternal] .

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes! I agree!
However, Jesus makes it plain and clear that in order for anyone to enter into the KoG. They must be "born again" NOW by His Spirit, aka the Holy Spirit, while they still have breath.

In regards to the death of Lazaruth, a believer, Jesus reveals that He Himself is the resurrection, and by that, we can safely conclude that there is no other!!
[25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?

So then, did you grasp the terms for how a resurrection is granted, whereby one shall never die? His answer is "whosoever LIVETH and BELIEVETH in me, SHALL NEVER DIE.

But wait, hold up... since everyone dies in their mortal bodies, how is it that a person shall never die??
Ans. For all who do live, and do believe in Jesus, it is they who shall never die.
However, people who died, that never believed in Jesus, while they lived, SHALL NEVER LIVE AGAIN.
1 John 5:10-13.
[12] He that HATH the Son hath life [eternal]; and he that HATH NOT the Son of God hath not life [eternal] .

Dear Earburner,
You said:
However, Jesus makes it plain and clear that in order for anyone to enter into the KoG. They must be "born again" NOW by His Spirit, aka the Holy Spirit, while they still have breath.

No, scripture does not say that salvation is limited to this age. Being a chosen Elect/heir/First Fruit/saint is limited to this age. For the Elect, they will be born again while they still have breath. Then they will receive the reward of having life during the ages and reigning with Christ. As for the rest of mankind, they will lose these rewards but they will still be saved in the final age:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You said:
In regards to the death of Lazaruth, a believer, Jesus reveals that He Himself is the resurrection, and by that, we can safely conclude that there is no other!!
[25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?

So then, did you grasp the terms for how a resurrection is granted, whereby one shall never die? His answer is "whosoever LIVETH and BELIEVETH in me, SHALL NEVER DIE.

Jesus Christ earned the keys to death and hell by His work on the cross. Jesus is the only one who has power and the legal authority to resurrect anyone from the grave. This is why Christ said that He is the "resurrection".

When Christ said "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die", He is speaking about the child of God (a converted believer) who is sinless and therefore, immortal. A person becomes spiritually alive when they were converted into a child of God. And as a child of God, they never spiritually die again. This does not mean that they will never physically die though because death was passed down from Adam to all mankind. Christ, though He was spiritually alive when He died on the cross, still experienced a physical death because He, too, was descended from Adam.

When Christ said "he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" is referring to conversion. All mankind is spiritually dead but when Christ gives us the Spirit which causes us to believe in Him, we are born again and are made spiritually alive.

You said:
However, people who died, that never believed in Jesus, while they lived, SHALL NEVER LIVE AGAIN.
1 John 5:10-13.
[12] He that HATH the Son hath life [eternal]; and he that HATH NOT the Son of God hath not life [eternal]

Your comment is completely untrue. Don't you understand that Christ is going to resurrect all mankind at the end of this age? At that time, all mankind will appear before the White Throne of Christ where He will separate them as sheep (the Elect) from goats (all others).

The goats will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Christ's judgment). But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the same salvation that He gave to the Elect. And as 1Cor 3:13-15 says, the goats will lose the rewards that the Elect received, but they will still be saved and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Finally, the scripture you quoted does NOT say that the lost "shall never live again". All it says is the "lost" do not have life as do the Elect. The verse makes no statement as to whether or not they will ever have that same life - however, other scriptures do:

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

You are adding things to certain verses when the verses themselves are silent on them. God's Word teaches us "here a little and there a little" (Isa 28:9-12). Don't add to scripture from your own preconceived beliefs; look to other scripture to find the answers. The answers are there if you look.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

Dear Ritajanice,
Yes, I completely understand what is it to be born of imperishable seed. It means to be converted.

The seed is the Holy Spirit and it is imperishable because the Spirit does not sin. However, to be born of the Spirit requires BOTH the Early and Latter Rains.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The "precious fruit of the earth" is a converted believer. James is writing to believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and they are waiting for the Lord's return to give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. James is telling the unconverted believers to be patient for their time of conversion.

Scripture says that the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" and is only a small amount:

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain (Early Rain) in just measure, and he causes to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month.

Because the Spirit is given in measure when Christ first comes to a person, it will leave them spiritually blind and carnally minded. In this condition, the believer will not be converted but be easy prey for Satan to deceive.

Christ describes what happens to all new believers here:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

This same event is described here in the prophecy of the Two Witnesses (represents one Elect believer):

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

After an unconverted Elect believer comes under Satan's deceptions, they will remain spiritually dead and "worse than the first" until Christ comes to them a second time and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer will be born (converted) and the new child of God will be gathered up to heaven. This event is described here:

Rev 11:11 And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares also teaches about falling away and conversion:

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The sower is Christ. The "field" is a person. The seed is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

But shortly after the person receives the Early Rain, Satan will come to the person and plant his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within them, too.

Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Now the new believer has both the Early Rain of the Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within them. A spiritual war soon develops over which spirit will govern the new believer. Since the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in "measure", the spirit of anti-Christ wins the war and starts governing the believer. This is when the believer becomes "worse than the first"; a man of sin.

When the time for the harvest arrives, Christ will "come again" and give the fallen away Elect believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain of the Spirit comes with power and will easily defeat the spirit of anti-Christ. The converted child of God will then be harvested into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).

Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear (spiritual understanding).

This verse applies to the time of the harvest when the fallen away Elect believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive (spiritual blindness healed) and see that your wickedness is great (the man of sin revealed), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

The time of the harvest represents "conversion" and is when the believer is born again and gathered up to heaven.

Joe

In all actuality, in all of what you wrote, it really is a description of believers who repent towards God, by having faith in the finished work of Christ's sacrifice, for all sins that are common among men. However, the one thing lacking in them, is they NEVER ASKED for the Gift of God's Holy Spirit to permanently dwell in them. KJV Luke 11:13; Rev. 3:20, Rom. 8:9.

Therefore, though their sins were forgiven, they never moved on into "perfection", by inviting the Spirit of Christ into their lives.
As a result, because the Holy Spirit does not reside/dwell within them, satan can still enter into them, with as many of his evil horde (legion) that he likes.

Do read and digest the parable of the strongman, and He who is The Stronger.

 

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,
I did not miss it. I stand by my comments.

No one can call Jesus "Lord" unless they have the Holy Spirit just as scripture states.

Why won't you believe God's Word? Where is your faith that you say you have?

Joe

Simple! Do you believe that all people now have the Gift of the Holy Spirit, without choosing to ask for Him to come into their lives?
If so, then who are they, that are none of Christ's in Rom. 8:9, for the reason given?

 

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,
You said:
However, Jesus makes it plain and clear that in order for anyone to enter into the KoG. They must be "born again" NOW by His Spirit, aka the Holy Spirit, while they still have breath.

No, scripture does not say that salvation is limited to this age. Being a chosen Elect/heir/First Fruit/saint is limited to this age. For the Elect, they will be born again while they still have breath. Then they will receive the reward of having life during the ages and reigning with Christ. As for the rest of mankind, they will lose these rewards but they will still be saved in the final age:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You said:
In regards to the death of Lazaruth, a believer, Jesus reveals that He Himself is the resurrection, and by that, we can safely conclude that there is no other!!
[25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?

So then, did you grasp the terms for how a resurrection is granted, whereby one shall never die? His answer is "whosoever LIVETH and BELIEVETH in me, SHALL NEVER DIE.

Jesus Christ earned the keys to death and hell by His work on the cross. Jesus is the only one who has power and the legal authority to resurrect anyone from the grave. This is why Christ said that He is the "resurrection".

When Christ said "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die", He is speaking about the child of God (a converted believer) who is sinless and therefore, immortal. A person becomes spiritually alive when they were converted into a child of God. And as a child of God, they never spiritually die again. This does not mean that they will never physically die though because death was passed down from Adam to all mankind. Christ, though He was spiritually alive when He died on the cross, still experienced a physical death because He, too, was descended from Adam.

When Christ said "he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" is referring to conversion. All mankind is spiritually dead but when Christ gives us the Spirit which causes us to believe in Him, we are born again and are made spiritually alive.

You said:
However, people who died, that never believed in Jesus, while they lived, SHALL NEVER LIVE AGAIN.
1 John 5:10-13.
[12] He that HATH the Son hath life [eternal]; and he that HATH NOT the Son of God hath not life [eternal]

Your comment is completely untrue. Don't you understand that Christ is going to resurrect all mankind at the end of this age? At that time, all mankind will appear before the White Throne of Christ where He will separate them as sheep (the Elect) from goats (all others).

The goats will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Christ's judgment). But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the same salvation that He gave to the Elect. And as 1Cor 3:13-15 says, the goats will lose the rewards that the Elect received, but they will still be saved and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Finally, the scripture you quoted does NOT say that the lost "shall never live again". All it says is the "lost" do not have life as do the Elect. The verse makes no statement as to whether or not they will ever have that same life - however, other scriptures do:

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

You are adding things to certain verses when the verses themselves are silent on them. God's Word teaches us "here a little and there a little" (Isa 28:9-12). Don't add to scripture from your own preconceived beliefs; look to other scripture to find the answers. The answers are there if you look.

Joe

You wrote:
"No, scripture does not say that salvation is limited to this age. Being a chosen Elect/heir/First Fruit/saint is limited to this age. For the Elect, they will be born again while they still have breath. Then they will receive the reward of having life during the ages and reigning with Christ. As for the rest of mankind, they will lose these rewards but they will still be saved in the final age:"

Sorry, I don't believe in another age of mortality to come, after Jesus returns in all His Glory, as clearly shown in KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10, which is a simultaneous event that transpires within a literal 24 hour period.

When is when? Please notice the word "when" in verses 7&10 about the two simultaneous events, all within 24 hours. The only way to get around that, is to change the Greek text and/or water down the English translations, of which they have, in ALL the spurious new translations.

By the Holy Spirit (not the wisdom of men), I have provided solid KJV scripture references to support my understanding.

 

[FaithWillDo]

In all actuality, in all of what you wrote, it really is a description of believers who repent towards God, by having faith in the finished work of Christ's sacrifice, for all sins that are common among men. However, the one thing lacking in them, is they NEVER ASKED for the Gift of God's Holy Spirit to permanently dwell in them. KJV Luke 11:13; Rev. 3:20, Rom. 8:9.

Therefore, though their sins were forgiven, they never moved on into "perfection", by inviting the Spirit of Christ into their lives.
As a result, because the Holy Spirit does not reside/dwell within them, satan can still enter into them, with as many of his evil horde (legion) that he likes.

Do read and digest the parable of the strongman, and He who is The Stronger.

Dear Earburner,
Christ will give the Early Rain of the Spirit to a person of His choosing and at a time of His choosing. His gift is given to them without their asking or permission.

Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. Paul didn't ask for it nor did Christ ask Paul for permission to give it to him. But after Christ gave the small measure of the Spirit to Paul, Paul's heart and mind were changed. Paul then quickly accepted Jesus as Lord.

What Paul experienced is how Christ gives the Early Rain to all unbelievers. And like Paul, they will all accept Christ as their Lord.

But since the Early Rain of the Spirit will not convert the new believer, they will quickly and easily come under the deceptions of Satan and fall from grace. They will remain in this lost "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) spiritual condition until they die or (if they are Elect) until Christ returns and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

The verse you mentioned in Luke 11:13 where a believer asks for the Holy Spirit is talking about asking for the Latter Rain and not the Early Rain of the Spirit. When Christ is ready for a fallen away Elect believer to receive the Latter Rain, Christ will cause them to pray for it. Christ leaves nothing to the "will" of man and He will do as He pleases:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

This verse also applies:

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Christ causes all things to happen within mankind. When Christ is ready to return and save a chosen person, He will send a converted believer to them in the spirit of Elijah with a call to repent of their "works" (James 5:17-20). This is the work that the Lord has given me to do. When the fallen away Elect believer responds to the call, they will pray to be forgiven. Since repentance alone cannot restore them (Heb 6:4-6), Christ will come a second time and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, the believer will be restored and born again. Judgment will then immediately follow and remove & destroy the chaff from within the believer.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Most persons to whom Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit are not "chosen" and will remain in a fallen away spiritual condition until they die. Only the Elect will experience the return of Christ with the Latter Rain before they die. They are few in number compared to the many people who are only given the Early Rain of the Spirit.

You said:
Therefore, though their sins were forgiven, they never moved on into "perfection", by inviting the Spirit of Christ into their lives.
As a result, because the Holy Spirit does not reside/dwell within them, satan can still enter into them, with as many of his evil horde (legion) that he likes.

Yes, the non-Elect fallen away believers never moved onto perfection because they were not chosen by Christ to be saved in this age. It was Christ's decision not to come to them a second time and give them the Latter Rain. The fallen away believers had no choice in the matter. They simply were not chosen.

The stronger man (Christ with the Latter Rain) never came to them:

Luke 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength (the strong man).

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Simple! Do you believe that all people now have the Gift of the Holy Spirit, without choosing to ask for Him to come into their lives?
If so, then who are they, that are none of Christ's in Rom. 8:9, for the reason given?

Dear Earburner,
I answered this question in my previous post.
Joe

 

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,
I answered this question in my previous post.
Joe

I must have missed it.
Edit: okay, I found it in post #136

 

[FaithWillDo]

You wrote:
"No, scripture does not say that salvation is limited to this age. Being a chosen Elect/heir/First Fruit/saint is limited to this age. For the Elect, they will be born again while they still have breath. Then they will receive the reward of having life during the ages and reigning with Christ. As for the rest of mankind, they will lose these rewards but they will still be saved in the final age:"

Sorry, I don't believe in another age of mortality to come, after Jesus returns in all His Glory, as clearly shown in KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10, which is a simultaneous event that transpires within a literal 24 hour period.

When is when? Please notice the word "when" in verses 7&10 about the two simultaneous events, all within 24 hours. The only way to get around that, is to change the Greek text and/or water down the English translations, of which they have, in ALL the spurious new translations.

By the Holy Spirit (not the wisdom of men), I have provided solid KJV scripture references to support my understanding.

Dear Earburner,
You said:
Sorry, I don't believe in another age of mortality to come, after Jesus returns in all His Glory, as clearly shown in KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10, which is a simultaneous event that transpires within a literal 24 hour period.

2Thes 1:7-10 is teaching about when Christ comes a second time to a fallen away Elect believer to give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by judgment. This is the believer's time of conversion/salvation.

2Thes 1:7 And to you (unconverted Elect) who are troubled rest with us (converted Elect) , when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed (spiritual blindness healed) from heaven with his mighty angels (same event as in Mat 24:29-31).

There is no one-time visible return of Christ to this world at the end of this age. Christ's second coming is a reoccurring spiritual event that occurs when Christ comes a second time to each Elect believer to convert them.

These verses apply:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

The only end-time event that happens at the literal end of this age is the bodily resurrection from the grave. All resurrected people will then appear before the White Throne and be separated as sheep from goats. This will commence the final age when the Elect will reign with Christ in judgment of the goats who have been cast into the Lake of Fire. And as I have stated, Christ will have mercy upon the goats before they perish and give them both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

Joel chapter 2 teaches the judgment in the Lake of Fire which occurs in the final age when the Elect (Christ's army) are reigning with Christ. Joel 2:18 says that Christ will have mercy (pity) upon the "lost" before they perish. From His mercy, Christ will pour out both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit upon them all:

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the Early Rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the Early rain, and the Latter Rain in the first month.

Both the Early and Latter Rains will fall in the "first month". This means that the time in between two Rains will be short, unlike it is today for the Elect who have to wait a longer period of time for the Lord to return with the Latter Rain.

You said:
When is when? Please notice the word "when" in verses 7&10 about the two simultaneous events, all within 24 hours. The only way to get around that, is to change the Greek text and/or water down the English translations, of which they have, in ALL the spurious new translations.

In both verses where "when" is mentioned, they are referring to the same event that occurs when Christ returns.

2Thes 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, 1). WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Thes 1:10 2). WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1). Christ is revealed (v. 7) when He heals the Elect believer's spiritual blindness (like when the scales fell from Paul's eyes). That is when the believer can finally "see" Christ.

This verse applies:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will APPEAR A SECOND TIME, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The first time Christ appears to a believer is when He comes to them with the Early Rain of the Spirit. At that time, the new believer can only see Christ carnally (His physical work of "Christ and Him crucified"). The true Christ which is taught by the spiritual teachings of scripture will remain veiled from their understanding.

2). Christ is glorified in his saints after He has converted them "in that day". The "day" is the Day of the Lord and is not a 24 hour period.

This is the same time of being "glorified" here:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The Early Rain of the Spirit gives a person a measure of faith. This is what justifies them. The Latter Rain of the Spirit and judgment is what glorifies the believer.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

I must have missed it. Can you provide the post # of your answer?

#136