Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,
You deny these scriptures:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The people who are predestined for salvation in this age are only the "first fruits" of Christ harvest of mankind. In the final age, Christ will bring in the great harvest of mankind at "year's end":

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

At "year's end", the balance of mankind will be saved from the Lake of Fire (a symbol for Christ's judgment and not literal fire):

This verse applies:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

When Christ judges the "lost" of the final age, He will have MERCY upon them before they perish (the true penalty of sin). At that time, Christ will come to each of them and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Spirit of Faith within them, they will make a confession of faith and call Jesus "Lord". With this FAITH, the pathway for Christ to come to them a second time will be made "straight". When Christ comes again, He will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, each "lost" person will be born again as a child of God and will be gathered up to heaven. Since the child of God is sinless, they will not be judged. But the child of the devil (the chaff/carnality of the person) which still remains within the believer is judged and will remain in the Lake of Fire for destruction. This satisfies JUSTICE.

This entire spiritual process which I explained above is called conversion. For a person to be converted, it required what the scriptures below teach:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh (when He brings the Latter Rain and judgment).

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment (like the Pharisees do Mat 23:23).

After the last person of mankind has been converted, these scriptures below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The salvation of mankind is what the Father commissioned Christ to accomplish and was why Christ came into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Why do you believe and teach that Christ will be a failure? Wouldn't Christ's failure to save the world be a sin?

Scripture says that God is love and love never fails. Why do you believe that God's love for mankind is going to fail most people?

Your beliefs make no sense in light of verses like the one below:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Since your beliefs are not coming from what God's Word teaches, you should ask yourself where they are actually coming from? Someone has deceived you.

Joe

Rom. 8:8-9. If a person is lost forever, it is because they never received the Spirit of Christ, while they had breath. Judas Iscariot is a prime example of that.
There are NO second chances for anyone who ignores or neglects to come to God through faith in Christ, before their mortal death.
The unrepentant thief on the cross was not remembered by Jesus, nor is he now with Jesus in paradise.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies

I agree. Jesus said it best, He said those who are not against Him are for Him,those who are for Him are not against. The Christian life is a deep and profound ultimatum.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Rom. 8:8-9. If a person is lost forever, it is because they never received the Spirit of Christ, while they had breath. Judas Iscariot is a prime example of that.
There are NO second chances for anyone who ignores or neglects to come to God through faith in Christ, before their mortal death.
The unrepentant thief on the cross was not remembered by Jesus, nor is he now with Jesus in paradise.

Dear Earburner,
Here is a proper translation of Rom 8:8-9:

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Where do you come up with "if a person is lost forever..."??? That phrase is not in the scripture.

All Romans 8:8-9 is saying that carnal mankind cannot please God. For that reason, mankind needs the Spirit of God.

So the question that you should be asking is: Will all mankind eventually receive the Spirit from Christ?

The answer is YES.

To be able to confess that Jesus is Lord, it requires the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. After a person has the Spirit, they cannot longer reject Christ.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Scripture then says:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

All mankind will eventually confess that Jesus is Lord. And as 1Cor 12:3 says, no person can make this confession of faith unless they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is this confession of faith by all mankind that will give glory to the Father.

By the end of the final age, Christ will have accomplished the mission that His Father gave Him. No one will be lost.

After Christ saves the last person who has ever lived, the ages will come to an end and Christ will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to His Father. In that way will God be "all in all".

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jesus Christ is truly the Savior of the world and not just a small part of the world as you believe. The Elect are being saved first and they are the First Fruits of the harvest. The balance of mankind will be harvested at year's end (the final age).

Why do you believe that Christ will leave most of His crop of mankind to die in the field? God's Word certainly does not teach it.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

Why do you believe that Christ will leave most of His crop of mankind to die in the field? God's Word certainly does not teach it.

Ans. Mankind DOES NOT HAVE an eternal soul. Here is a proper translation of KJV Gen. 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground [soil, clay], and breathed into his  NOSTRILS the breath of life [oxygenated air]; and man BECAME a living soul.

Gen. 6
[17] And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Gen. 7
[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
[22] All in whose NOSTRILS was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Lev. 17
[11] For the life [oxygenated air] of the flesh IS IN the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Let's be real here. Moses did not take up Biology/Chemistry 101, and therefore had no understanding of the microscopic atoms of the "elements" of ALL physical things.

KJV Luke 17:26-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a good study to know of,....about when is when?
"WHEN" [vs 7&10] the Lord is revealed from heaven, and what shall transpire "suddenly" and simultaneously.

There are no second chances for anyone to be saved, after their mortal death!!

 

[Behold]

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the clear and present danger all around us, or because they've been blinded by deception.

Paul teaches that as..

"Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the Devil".

 

[Kabone]

Sorry, but what is ‘elect or not elect’?

 

[Earburner]

So the question that you should be asking is: Will all mankind eventually receive the Spirit from Christ?

The answer is YES.

To be able to confess that Jesus is Lord, it requires the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. After a person has the Spirit, they cannot longer reject Christ.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Scripture then says:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Between the two scriptures you posted, you are comparing apples to oranges.
A. 1 Cor. 12 is about how one can know who is a "born again" Christian (wheat), as opposed to those who know not of what they worship, if anything at all (tares).
Therefore Paul informs us, that while in this flesh, NO ONE can say that Jesus Christ is Lord, except by being "born again" of the Holy Spirit of God, who dwells within them.
Which of course, is the "Spirit of Christ"


B. Phil 2 is about how "born again" Christians are to live together in the body of Christ, while waiting for His Glorious return.

What is relative to A and B, is that the saved know that the Lord IS The Lord, through FAITH, by the Holy Spirit that dwells within them, whereas the unsaved shall ONLY know of Him as Lord outwardly, BY eyesight, for the Day of Him being revealed from heaven, in flaming [fiery] fire, WILL DECLARE IT.
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10

 

[FaithWillDo]

Sorry, but what is ‘elect or not elect’?

Dear Kabone,
The Elect of God are the blessed individuals who have been "chosen" by God from the foundation of the world to be saved in this age. They are also called the Heirs/Saints/First Fruits/Bride/Wise Virgins/Wheat.

Christ will not save anyone else in this age. However, since Christ came to save all mankind, He will save the balance of mankind in the final age. By the end of the final age, all of mankind will be saved and be in the Kingdom of Heaven. At that time, this scripture will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Salvation is a free gift from Christ and it comes to the Elect solely by the works of Christ. Mankind has no works which they need to perform to receive their salvation. The good works/works of faith that the Elect do after they are saved are not their works - they are the works of Christ that He performs through them via the Holy Spirit.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

The apostate churches of this world teach "another gospel" that says salvation is contingent upon certain works of man. In other words, the apostate church mixes man's works with the works of Christ and for that reason, a person's salvation is dependent upon the individual and not Christ. And since they believe it is dependent upon the individual, they teach that everyone has an opportunity to be saved in this age.

The apostate churches do not really believe the scriptures that I have listed below:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Joe

 

[Jack]

Why be alarmed? God is in control. He already told us what is coming.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Ans. Mankind DOES NOT HAVE an eternal soul. Here is a proper translation of KJV Gen. 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground [soil, clay], and breathed into his  NOSTRILS the breath of life [oxygenated air]; and man BECAME a living soul.

Gen. 6
[17] And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Gen. 7
[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
[22] All in whose NOSTRILS was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Lev. 17
[11] For the life [oxygenated air] of the flesh IS IN the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Let's be real here. Moses did not take up Biology/Chemistry 101, and therefore had no understanding of the microscopic atoms of the "elements" of ALL physical things.

KJV Luke 17:26-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a good study to know of,....about when is when?
"WHEN" [vs 7&10] the Lord is revealed from heaven, and what shall transpire "suddenly" and simultaneously.

There are no second chances for anyone to be saved, after their mortal death!!

Dear Earburner,
I agree that mankind does not have an eternal soul. All mankind will perish because all mankind has sinned. Death is the penalty of sin.

So what is the solution to this problem that mankind faces?

The solution is for mankind to be made into a new creation. The new creation is a child of God who is not under the penalty of death because the child of God is sinless. The spiritual process to make this change is called conversion/salvation.

To accomplish this great work of saving mankind, the Father sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Consider this scripture below on conversion:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The old vessel (carnal & sinful mankind) is spiritually marred (weak) and is headed for destruction. Because it is, Christ will make the old vessel into a new vessel that pleases Him. This work of conversion is what is required to save mankind AND to satisfy the Law of Sin and Death.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

You then said:
There are no second chances for anyone to be saved, after their mortal death!!

This statement is completely and utterly false and is contradicted by God's Word.

First of all, salvation is a certainty and not a "chance".

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Here it is again paraphrased by Paul:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Secondly, Christ's blood that He shed on the cross earned Him the keys to death and hell. With those keys, Christ will resurrect from death all mankind. All mankind will then appear before Christ (White Throne) where He will separate the sheep from the goats. The sheep represent the converted Elect and the goats represent unconverted mankind who is still under the penalty of death. Because the goats are still under that penalty, Christ will cast them into the Lake of Fire for destruction.

The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol which represents Christ's judgment. It is not a literal place nor is it literal fire - it is Christ's judgment.

After Christ casts the goats into the Lake of Fire, this verse will apply:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, and FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I have explained this scripture to you before but since you don't seem to understand it, I will explain it again.

Before the "lost" who are under Christ's judgment (Lake of Fire) have perished, Christ will have MERCY upon them because of His grace. His mercy will be manifested in the form of giving the lost person the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, the believer will have FAITH in Christ. Their faith will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to "come again" to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, the lost person will be "born again" as a child of God. The child of God will be gathered up to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire to perish. The death of the child of the devil will satisfy JUSTICE.

Joel 2:1-27 teaches this judgment that occurs in the Lake of Fire. Christ's army are the Elect. You should read it.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Between the two scriptures you posted, you are comparing apples to oranges.
A. 1 Cor. 12 is about how one can know who is a "born again" Christian, as opposed to those who know not of what they worship, if anything at all.
Therefore Paul informs us, that while in this flesh, NO ONE can say that Jesus Christ is Lord, except by being "born again" of the Holy Spirit of God, who dwells within them.
Which of course, is the "Spirit of Christ"


B. Phil 2 is about how "born again" Christians are to live together in the body of Christ, while waiting for His Glorious return.

What is relative to A and B, is that the saved know that the Lord IS the Lord, through FAITH, by the Holy Spirit that dwells within them, whereas the unsaved shall ONLY know of Him as Lord outwardly, BY eyesight, for the Day of Him being revealed from heaven, in flaming [fiery] fire, WILL DECLARE IT.

Dear Earburner,
That is quite a job of twisting the clear meanings of those two verses. I am always amazed at how the carnal mind can make scripture conform to what pleases it.

Here is the clear teaching of those two verses:

Since no man can call Jesus Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3), then when all mankind calls Jesus "Lord" (Phil 2:10), it necessitates that all mankind have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,
That is quite a job of twisting the clear meanings of those two verses. I am always amazed at how the carnal mind can make scripture conform to what pleases it.

Here is the clear teaching of those two verses:

Since no man can call Jesus Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3), then when all mankind calls Jesus "Lord" (Phil 2:10), it necessitates that all mankind have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Joe

You missed the Holy Spirit speaking in the latter part of my post #107.

Reposted:
"What is relative to A and B, is that the saved KNOW that the Lord IS The Lord, through FAITH, by the Holy Spirit that dwells within them, whereas the unsaved shall ONLY know of Him as Lord outwardly, BY eyesight. For the Day of Him being revealed from heaven, in flaming [fiery] fire, WILL DECLARE IT."
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10

 

[Behold]

He doesn't have to change anything. He had a plan in place already. If we don't have free will, then there was no sense in putting the Tree of Good and Evil in the Garden

True.

If Adam and Eve didnt have Free will, then there would have been no way for them to choose to eat the forbidden fruit.

SATAN, cannot tempt you, unless you have the FREE WILL to chose to do it..... or not.

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Ephesians 1:11 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, New Living Translation Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan. English Standard Version In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, Berean Standard Bible In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, Berean Literal Bible in Him, in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of the One working all things according to the counsel of His will

 

[FaithWillDo]

You missed the Holy Spirit speaking in the latter part of my post #107.

Reposted:
"What is relative to A and B, is that the saved KNOW that the Lord IS The Lord, through FAITH, by the Holy Spirit that dwells within them, whereas the unsaved shall ONLY know of Him as Lord outwardly, BY eyesight. For the Day of Him being revealed from heaven, in flaming [fiery] fire, WILL DECLARE IT."
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10

Dear Earburner,
I did not miss it. I stand by my comments.

No one can call Jesus "Lord" unless they have the Holy Spirit just as scripture states.

Why won't you believe God's Word? Where is your faith that you say you have?

Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

No one can call Jesus "Lord" unless they have the Holy Spirit just as scripture states.

Amen!!!....

 

[FaithWillDo]

Amen!!!....

Dear Ritajanice,
Do you understand the implications of no one being able to call Jesus "Lord" unless they have the Holy Spirit?

Those "implications" go against the teachings of orthodox Christianity, and because of such, most believers will deny the truth of what 1Cor 12:3 teaches.

By accepting the truth of 1Cor 12:3, you are saying that no one can believe in Christ UNTIL Christ comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is true because of what these scriptures state:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You can also add to these verses above what Paul said about mankind in the first 2 chapters of Romans.

Do you know that Paul's conversion experience, which is presented in detail in Acts chapter 9, is a "type" for how Christ saves His Elect?

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause, I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern (type) to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Consider when Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit as He travelled the Damascus Road. Paul was on his way to persecute Christians in Damascus and had no intention of becoming a follower of Christ himself. But all changed for Paul when Christ "suddenly" came to His temple (Paul) and gave Paul the Early Rain of the Spirit. After Paul received the Early Rain, Paul fell to His knees and called Jesus "Lord". Paul then submitted to Christ's authority when Paul asked "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?"

When any person makes a confession of faith, it only happens because the Lord (from His own choosing) came to that person and gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, the person will have a "measure of faith" and certain spiritual gifts. It is at this point they will enter the church. This happens only because of the spiritual work of Christ that He did within the person. The person's "will" plays no part in their decision to accept Christ as "Lord".

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Orthodox Christianity teaches that a person must make a free will decision to accept Christ and then they will receive the Holy Spirit. But this is putting the cart before the horse. Christ must give the person the Holy Spirit first and then they will make a confession of faith. And as 1Cor 12:3 also says, with the Holy Spirit within a person, no one will be able to continue to reject Christ.

Because this is the way salvation is freely given to mankind, mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to come to them and save them.

However, in this age, Christ is only saving the Elect who have been chosen from the foundation of the world to be the first group of mankind (the First Fruits) to be saved. Everyone else will have no choice but to wait until the final age for their salvation.

This scripture applies to the final and great harvest of mankind which occurs at the end of the ages:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, and FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Before the "lost" who are under Christ's judgment (Lake of Fire) have perished, Christ will have MERCY upon them because of His grace. His mercy will be manifested in the form of giving the lost person the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, the believer will have FAITH in Christ. Their faith will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to "come again" to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, the lost person will be "born again" as a child of God. The child of God will then be gathered up to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire to perish. The death of the child of the devil will satisfy JUSTICE.

After the last person who has ever lived is converted and saved, this scripture will then be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

This is how Christ loves and blesses all His enemies (children of the devil).

Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

Dear Ritajanice,
Do you understand the implications of no one being able to call Jesus "Lord" unless they have the Holy Spirit?

Listen sweet pea...I don’t need reams and reams of commentary.

You can only know that Jesus existed, in one’s spirit, that is where we need the testifying ....the “ LIVING “ “ HOLY” Spirit testifies with our spirit ( he talks to our spirit as he indwells us) that we are Gods children.
He “ TESTIFIES “ with “OUR” spirit?
You need to be Born Again of the” LIVING “ Spirit, that is where we know all about God by His Living witness the LIVING Holy Spirit.....witnessing Gods truth to our spirit.

Commentary doesn’t bring our spirit Alive, only the Living Holy Spirit can do that supernatural/ Spiritual act.

Those "implications" go against the teachings of orthodox Christianity, and because of such, most believers will deny the truth of what 1Cor 12:3 teaches.

By accepting the truth of 1Cor 12:3, you are saying that no one can believe in Christ UNTIL Christ comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is true because of what these scriptures state:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You can also add to these verses above what Paul said about mankind in the first 2 chapters of Romans.

Do you know that Paul's conversion experience, which is presented in detail in Acts chapter 9, is a "type" for how Christ saves His Elect?

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause, I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern (type) to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Consider when Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit as He travelled the Damascus Road. Paul was on his way to persecute Christians in Damascus and had no intention of becoming a follower of Christ himself. But all changed for Paul when Christ "suddenly" came to His temple (Paul) and gave Paul the Early Rain of the Spirit. After Paul received the Early Rain, Paul fell to His knees and called Jesus "Lord". Paul then submitted to Christ's authority when Paul asked "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?"

When any person makes a confession of faith, it only happens because the Lord (from His own choosing) came to that person and gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, the person will have a "measure of faith" and certain spiritual gifts. It is at this point they will enter the church. This happens only because of the spiritual work of Christ that He did within the person. The person's "will" plays no part in their decision to accept Christ as "Lord".

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Orthodox Christianity teaches that a person must make a free will decision to accept Christ and then they will receive the Holy Spirit. But this is putting the cart before the horse. Christ must give the person the Holy Spirit first and then they will make a confession of faith. And as 1Cor 12:3 also says, with the Holy Spirit within a person, no one will be able to continue to reject Christ.

Because this is the way salvation is freely given to mankind, mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to come to them and save them.

However, in this age, Christ is only saving the Elect who have been chosen from the foundation of the world to be the first group of mankind (the First Fruits) to be saved. Everyone else will have no choice but to wait until the final age for their salvation.

This scripture applies to the final and great harvest of mankind which occurs at the end of the ages:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, and FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Before the "lost" who are under Christ's judgment (Lake of Fire) have perished, Christ will have MERCY upon them because of His grace. His mercy will be manifested in the form of giving the lost person the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, the believer will have FAITH in Christ. Their faith will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to "come again" to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, the lost person will be "born again" as a child of God. The child of God will then be gathered up to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire to perish. The death of the child of the devil will satisfy JUSTICE.

After the last person who has ever lived is converted and saved, this scripture will then be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

This is how Christ loves and blesses all His enemies (children of the devil).

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Listen sweet pea...I don’t need reams and reams of commentary.

Commentary doesn’t bring our spirit Alive, only the Living Holy Spirit can do that supernatural/ Spiritual act.

Dear Ritajanice,
You are forgetting what Christ said here:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

If a believer is unconverted (Early Rain only), they will easily be deceived by Satan. They will believe that the spirit that is within them (which is witnessing to them) is the Holy Spirit but it is not. It is the spirit of anti-Christ. That is the nature and power of Satan's deceptions.

The spirit of anti-Christ teaches false beliefs that are pleasing to mankind's carnal nature. It is impossible not to be deceived by them after a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit and enters the church.

For that reason, understanding the truth of scripture is vital and is why the truth of God sanctifies a believer.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

After a person is called out from the world and enters the church, the Early Rain of the Spirit will give them faith and certain spiritual gifts, BUT it will not heal the new believer's spiritual blindness so that they can understand and receive the truth of God.

Paul's blindness "typed" this truth after he received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. Only after Paul received the Latter Rain of the Spirit did the scales fall off Paul's eyes. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is the "Spirit of Truth" that Christ mentions here:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Even though the Apostles heard directly from Christ during His ministry, they still could not understand His teachings of the New Covenant. All they could understand was "Christ and Him crucified" (Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant).

Christ explains spiritual blindness here:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual language of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight (the flesh, carnal nature) rather than by faith & the Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their carnal nature still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the spiritual works of Christ.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will then come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the resurrection of the First Fruits and will receive the reward of life during the ages.

If a believer does know that they have experienced a time of blindness when they were under the spirit of anti-Christ, it is certain that they are still blind and under Satan's deceptions.

After Christ gives a believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit and heals their blindness, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) that previously occurred within themselves. That is the same time that the "man of sin" is revealed to the believer and they will find that he is the one who is looking back at them in the mirror. When they see this "sign of the times", judgment will fall and destroy the man of sin (2Thes 2:8).

This is the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel as taught by God's Word.

Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

Dear Ritajanice,
You are forgetting what Christ said here:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

If a believer is unconverted (Early Rain only), they will easily be deceived by Satan. They will believe that the spirit that is within them (which is witnessing to them) is the Holy Spirit but it is not. It is the spirit of anti-Christ. That is the nature and power of Satan's deceptions.

The spirit of anti-Christ teaches false beliefs that are pleasing to mankind's carnal nature. It is impossible not to be deceived by them after a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit and enters the church.

For that reason, understanding the truth of scripture is vital and is why the truth of God sanctifies a believer.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

After a person is called out from the world and enters the church, the Early Rain of the Spirit will give them faith and certain spiritual gifts, BUT it will not heal the new believer's spiritual blindness so that they can understand and receive the truth of God.

Paul's blindness "typed" this truth after he received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. Only after Paul received the Latter Rain of the Spirit did the scales fall off Paul's eyes. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is the "Spirit of Truth" that Christ mentions here:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Even though the Apostles heard directly from Christ during His ministry, they still could not understand His teachings of the New Covenant. All they could understand was "Christ and Him crucified" (Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant).

Christ explains spiritual blindness here:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual language of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight (the flesh, carnal nature) rather than by faith & the Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their carnal nature still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the spiritual works of Christ.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will then come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the resurrection of the First Fruits and will receive the reward of life during the ages.

If a believer does know that they have experienced a time of blindness when they were under the spirit of anti-Christ, it is certain that they are still blind and under Satan's deceptions.

After Christ gives a believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit and heals their blindness, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) that previously occurred within themselves. That is the same time that the "man of sin" is revealed to the believer and they will find that he is the one who is looking back at them in the mirror. When they see this "sign of the times", judgment will fall and destroy the man of sin (2Thes 2:8).

This is the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel as taught by God's Word.

Joe

Do you actually understand what it means to be Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever?

What is imperishable seed?

What in you needs to be Born Again? It’s not complicated or rocket science?

Do you understand the Living Holy Spirit...do you understand that He is Gods Living witness in our heart/ spirit?

Have you been Born Of The Spirit..by Gods Living witness the Holy Spirit?

Has your spirit been Born Again....or do you only understand the written word?