Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[FaithWillDo]

The "Israel of God" is anyone anywhere who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature" in Christ.

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

You said:
You've shown nothing except inclination to wrongly interpret Scriptures over here to overthrow the truth of Scripture written over there. Here's a few verses that not only prove God's gift of free will choice to us to either serve Him or Satan, but also that it's our duty to choose to serve Him instead of Satan:

The scriptures you quoted only say that we are to choose. However, those scriptures do not say that mankind has the ability to make "uncaused" choices.

This is the definition of free will: the capacity or ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.

Christ teaches "here a little and there a little". You are arguing for free will with scriptures that are silent on whether or not mankind has an "unimpeded" will.

There are no scriptures that teach mankind has an unimpeded will and in fact, scripture teaches just the opposite.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

The choices that mankind makes come from the Lord:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Christ is spirit and He works within mankind to direct our paths. From our carnal perspective, we believe that we have an unimpeded ability to choose but we do not have this ability - our carnality does not allow us to see the spiritual work that Christ does in our hearts. We are blind to it.

You said:
Hebrews 9:27 KJV plainly says what comes after death is judgment - not opportunity.

The judgment that Paul is referencing is the White Throne Judgment where Christ separates the sheep (the Elect) from the goats (the lost). After we all die, we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ:

2Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Also, salvation is not an "opportunity". Your comment is based on man's works and not on the certainty of salvation which is based on the works of Christ under the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As for judgment, I explained Christ's judgment earlier.

As for your next comments on the "man of sin", you are understanding the man of sin carnally and not spiritually. Until you can see spiritually, you would not be able to receive anything I would say.

I will now take a look at your next post and respond if the Lord is willing.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, no man comes to the Father unless the Spirit draw him - but the drawing takes place in THIS LIFE, not the next!

No, it is you who won't allow other verses to have their impact on the issue, so I say the same to you: go read "here a little and there a little".

Children make plans to do all sorts of things, but parents have the final word. Does that mean children can't ever make choices? Please stop with your rigidity of interpretation.

Children can't understand the plans their parents have for them, either. Does that mean the children can't ever make choices? More rigidity.

Yes, like any good parent, God schedules activities for us: who we will meet, what circumstances we encounter, what temptations Satan is allowed to bring to us...so what?

Good parents know the importance of these things for development of the children, but when God does the same thing, He's somehow a cosmic control freak?

You don't understand that conversion takes place when the human will is surrendered to God's will, allowing God to begin His work of cleansing and sanctifying. Yours is a theology of childish immaturity instead of dutiful responsibility.

"Now let us hear the whole conclusion of the matter. Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man".

The restoration of all things is by elimination of impenitent sinners, not the reprogramming of them.

Read Hebrews 9:27 KJV and 2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV and you'll see the only thing that's coming after death is judgement - not opportunity - and that this judgment pertains to things done in the body, got it?

Who, except those with satanic murderous sympathies, could ever be satisfied with the notion that the impenitent serial killer is deserving of the same verdict as the most devout Gospel missionary?

This is stunningly mindblowing. Do you not understand that the fate of men who accept salvation by grace through faith is to be transformed into the likeness of "the man Christ Jesus". Only impenitent mankind will be destroyed.

Ever hear of that woman who so identified with the disability of blindness that she poured acid in her eyes to blind herself?

The willful blindness of Universalism will not help you in the day of judgment, says Hosea 4:6 KJV.

No one says the truth comes from free will. Free will doesn't generate truth - it responds to it.

Universalism is just another means by which those who love sin can escape the consequences of it after making up their minds to not repent from it.

Dear Phoneman777,
You said:
Yes, no man comes to the Father unless the Spirit draw him - but the drawing takes place in THIS LIFE, not the next!

Not true. Here is what scripture says:

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Since Christ was resurrected from the grave (lifted up), He will draw all men to Him. The First Fruits are saved in this age and the rest of mankind will be saved in the final age.

I'm sure your you are thinking: Yes, He draws all men to Him but it is up to the person to make a free will decision to accept Him or not. If that is what you would say, you don't need to respond because we have gone down that road before on "free will".

Let me ask you this though:

Since you believe Christ will draw everyone to Him in their lifetime, what about the people who lived before Christ or have never heard of Christ or died too young to know about Christ? This leaves only the final age for Christ to draw all men to Him.

As for your other comments on free will, they are only the reasonings of the carnal mind and have no scriptural support. Paul says this:

1Cor 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

To prove any truth, you must have two or three witnesses of scripture.

You said:
This is stunningly mindblowing. Do you not understand that the fate of men who accept salvation by grace through faith is to be transformed into the likeness of "the man Christ Jesus". Only impenitent mankind will be destroyed.

All mankind has sinned and because they have sinned, they are "condemned already" (John 3:18). Because we are all headed for destruction, the only way to live is to be "born again" and made into a new creation. This is the work of Christ and is why the Father sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

As I said, you do not understand conversion.

You said:
Universalism is just another means by which those who love sin can escape the consequences of it after making up their minds to not repent from it.

Your comment above could not be coming from anything I have posted. The work of salvation is Christ's work and not man's work. After Christ converts a person, they will hate sin and will only want to please Him. Why? Because the Spirit within them will give them the power to follow His commandments (love God and their neighbor) and to walk by faith. They will be a new creation who will no longer be governed by a carnal nature and a carnal mind and will "sin no more".

The verse below teaches what mankind's salvation actually is:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ gave all mankind "life" by His work on the cross. From His sacrifice, Christ earned the keys to "death and hell" and will now resurrect all mankind from the grave. But since Christ came to give mankind a more abundant life, too, He is continuing His work under the New Covenant. The more abundant life He will give to mankind is a life free from sin with a restored relationship with His Father. To accomplish this more abundant life for each person who has ever lived, Christ will freely give each person the Early and Latter Rains and judgment. From this spiritual work, each person will be converted into a child of God. Since it is all His work, He cannot fail.

Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Where is your faith to believe what is written in God's Word?

Joe

 

[Phoneman777]

I doubt that most Christians realize that Satan's main deception is religion, even Christianity.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

I can't agree with you more. Satan's end game has always been about redirecting the worship of God to himself.

 

[Jack]

I can't agree with you more. Satan's end game has always been about redirecting the worship of God to himself.

So many believe that if they go to 'church' regularly and sing and praise they're ok, even tho most don't even STUDY their Bibles, one of the most important things in this life!

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
You said:
The "Israel of God" is anyone anywhere who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature" in Christ.
Repentance isn't limited to just impenitent/apostate "Israel" as you claim, according to Acts 26:20 KJV

Yes, all converted believers become spiritual Israel and a new creature in Christ. I was referring to physical Israel under the Old Covenant. It was they who needed to transition from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. John the Baptist came to the nation with the call to repent from their works under the Law. After a person repents, the pathway for Christ to come to them with salvation (Latter Rain) is made straight. The straight way is faith alone in Christ who will do all the necessary works for our salvation. Because it is, once a person is converted, scripture says that they have entered into the rest of Christ. This "rest" is what the Sabbath Day Law foreshadows and why a believer no longer keeps a physical Sabbath Day.

And as I said, repentance also applies to fallen away believers who mix works with faith. As for Gentiles unbelievers, you are right about their repentance being necessary, too. Thanks for showing me Acts 26:20. After considering what Paul said there, here is why Paul is right (it is related to my response to you second question below):

Since all mankind sins, all mankind are children of the Devil. As children of the Devil, they follow Satan's way which is the crooked way. That is why scripture says that Satan is the "crooked serpent" (Job 26:13). The crooked way is religion which is based on man's works. It is also called filthy rags. The false belief that mankind has a free will is the foundation for man's "works". Because all Gentiles believe in their free will ability (whether they practice religion or not), they do have a need to repent of works when they come to Christ.

You said:
Let's be clear: no child of the devil can be a recipient of God's spirit, be it Early Rain, Latter Rain, Purple Rain, It's Raining Men, nothing, understand?

Proof?

God's only gives His spirit to them that obey Him (Acts 5:32 KJV), therefore, since a child of the devil can't obey God even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV) there's no way they have His spirit.

How can any man obey God unless they have the Spirit?

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

All mankind has sinned, and as a result, all mankind are children of the Devil.

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It is Satan who is the god of this world and it is this god who mankind serves. If Christ didn't come to a child of the Devil and freely give them the Early Rain of the Spirit, no one would ever make a confession of faith.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Why can't you accept what this scripture above teaches?

Only a person who has the Spirit (even just the Early Rain) can call Jesus Lord and have any faith in Him. This confession of faith is a gift from God.

As for Acts 5:32:

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Peter is referring to the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain is what gives a person faith. With their faith (no works), they are obeying Christ. And because of their faith, the pathway is made "straight" for Christ to come to them a second time and give them the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain). Only with the Latter Rain of the Spirit (and judgment) will a person be changed from a child of the Devil into a child of God. The spiritual process that makes this change within a person is called conversion and it requires Christ to give a person both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

I can tell that you are not seeing the Early Rain of the Spirit. You are attributing the faith that the Early Rain gives a person to their supposed free will ability to believe. But mankind has no such ability, and for that reason, Christ must come to a child of the Devil and give them the "Spirit of Faith" (Early Rain) so that they will believe and obey Christ (repentance from works).

The Apostles received the Early Rain when they walked with Christ. At that time, they made a confession of faith and called Him "Lord". They then had to "wait" until the Day of Pentecost for Christ to "come again" and convert them with the Latter Rain.

Paul's conversion experience teaches the same pathway. Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. It was then that Paul called Jesus "Lord" and submitted to His authority. And like the Apostles, Paul had to wait for the Lord to return and give him the Latter Rain. This event is shown when Ananias (type for Christ) came to Paul three days later.

You said:
So, a minister of Satan dies without salvation, but somehow is eligible for salvation? Not according to Hebrews 9:27 KJV. Universalism dies the death it deserves right here, right or wrong?

You do not understand the judgment of Christ. Here is how Christ will judge the "lost" in the Lake of Fire:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Before the "lost" perish in the Lake of Fire, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit which will give them the faith they need to be saved. After Christ come to them and gives them the Latter Rain, they will be "born again" and gathered up to heaven just as the First Fruits of the harvest were in this age. The child of the Devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he is destroyed. This satisfies "justice" and the law which says "the soul that sins shall die" (Eze 18:4)

Judgment is a necessary component of conversion. The old vessel must be destroyed so that the new vessel is created:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Consider these additional verses on Christ's judgment:

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Mankind perverts judgment just as the Pharisees did. However, the Lord will do nothing of the kind. He will administer His judgment to His enemies with love and will bless them with salvation:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

To show His love for the "lost", Christ will not omit justice, mercy and faith.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

With all due respect, I don't go round and round with folks who won't address my points.

I disproved your claim that Satan's children can be recipients of God's Spirit while remaining in a fallen state by showing you that God only gives His Spirit to them that obey Him (Acts 5:32 KJV) while Satan's children can't obey Him even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV) and you won't address that...because you know my point is bulletproof, but since you're unwilling to abandon Total Depravity my point must go unaddressed.

So, by all means, carry on with Universalism but let's not pretend there aren't bulletproof points to disprove it.

 

[Phoneman777]

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

You said:
You've shown nothing except inclination to wrongly interpret Scriptures over here to overthrow the truth of Scripture written over there. Here's a few verses that not only prove God's gift of free will choice to us to either serve Him or Satan, but also that it's our duty to choose to serve Him instead of Satan:

The scriptures you quoted only say that we are to choose. However, those scripture do not say that mankind has the ability to make "uncaused" choices.

This is the definition of free will: the capacity or ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.

Christ teaches "here a little and there a little". You are arguing for free will with scriptures that are silent on whether or not mankind has an "unimpeded" will.

There are no scriptures that teach mankind has an unimpeded will and in fact, scripture teaches just the opposite.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

The choices that mankind makes come from the Lord:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Christ is spirit and He works within mankind to direct our paths. From our carnal perspective, we believe that we have an unimpeded ability to choose but we do not have this ability - our carnality does not allow us to see the spiritual work that Christ does in our hearts. We are blind to it.

You said:
Hebrews 9:27 KJV plainly says what comes after death is judgment - not opportunity.

The judgment that Paul is referencing is the White Throne Judgment where Christ separates the sheep (the Elect) from the goats (the lost). After we all die, we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ:

2Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Also, salvation is not an "opportunity". Your comment is based on man's works and not on the certainty of salvation which is based on the works of Christ under the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As for judgment, I explained Christ's judgment earlier.

As for your next comments on the "man of sin", you are understanding the man of sin carnally and not spiritually. Until you can see spiritually, you would not be able to receive anything I would say.

I will now take a look at your next post and respond if the Lord is willing.

Joe

The choice is between life or death, blessings or cursings, good or evil, obedience or rebellion - just as your Bible plainly says.

Let's not muddy the waters with talking points about "caused" or "uncaused" or the like. The issue is not the complicated.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm

We are not called to be scared, worried, and full of anguish and anxiety

If one really loves the Lord they will walk with Him at all times regardless of what's going on in the world.

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
You said:
Yes, no man comes to the Father unless the Spirit draw him - but the drawing takes place in THIS LIFE, not the next!

Not true. Here is what scripture says:

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Since Christ was resurrected from the grave (lifted up), He will draw all men to Him. The First Fruits are saved in this age and the rest of mankind will be saved in the final age.

I'm sure your you are thinking: Yes, He draws all men to Him but it is up to the person to make a free will decision to accept Him or not. If that is what you would say, you don't need to respond because we have gone down that road before on "free will".

Let me ask you this though:

Since you believe Christ will draw everyone to Him in their lifetime, what about the people who lived before Christ or have never heard of Christ or died too young to know about Christ? This leaves only the final age for Christ to draw all men to Him.

As for your other comments on free will, they are only the reasonings of the carnal mind and have no scriptural support. Paul says this:

1Cor 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

To prove any truth, you must have two or three witnesses of scripture.

You said:
This is stunningly mindblowing. Do you not understand that the fate of men who accept salvation by grace through faith is to be transformed into the likeness of "the man Christ Jesus". Only impenitent mankind will be destroyed.

All mankind has sinned and because they have sinned, they are "condemned already" (John 3:18). Because we are all headed for destruction, the only way to live is to be "born again" and made into a new creation. This is the work of Christ and is why the Father sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

As I said, you do not understand conversion.

You said:
Universalism is just another means by which those who love sin can escape the consequences of it after making up their minds to not repent from it.

Your comment above could not be coming from anything I have posted. The work of salvation is Christ's work and not man's work. After Christ converts a person, they will hate sin and will only want to please Him. Why? Because the Spirit within them will give them the power to follow His commandments (love God and their neighbor) and to walk by faith. They will be a new creation who will no longer be governed by a carnal nature and a carnal mind and will "sin no more".

The verse below teaches what mankind's salvation actually is:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ gave all mankind "life" by His work on the cross. From His sacrifice, Christ earned the keys to "death and hell" and will now resurrect all mankind from the grave. But since Christ came to give mankind a more abundant life, too, He is continuing His work under the New Covenant. The more abundant life He will give to mankind is a life free from sin with a restored relationship with His Father. To accomplish this more abundant life for each person who has ever lived, Christ will freely give each person the Early and Latter Rains and judgment. From this spiritual work, each person will be converted into a child of God. Since it is all His work, He cannot fail.

Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Where is your faith to believe what is written in God's Word?

Joe

You can read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single verse that even remotely suggests we have opportunity to obtain salvation after we die. Jesus said there remains for the dead only to rise in the Resurrection of the Just or the Resurrection of the Damned with no mention of your "Resurrection of the Re-Programmed".

 

[Cassandra]

If what Faith is saying is true, there is no purpose to the Judgement.Why have it?

Faith, you dont need to follow Christ according to you--you will be saved anyway. So have a good time in the world , if you really believe that you'll be saved, anyway..
I dont think you really believe that.

 

[Phoneman777]

We are not called to be scared, worried, and full of anguish and anxiety

If one really loves the Lord they will walk with Him at all times regardless of what's going on in the world.

By "alarm" I mean "focused concern" not "fearfulness" which we're told 365 times to never be. Paul and the other Bible writers knew end time Christians would be fast asleep instead of being "watchful" and "ready".

 

[Phoneman777]

If what Faith is saying is true, there is no purpose to the Judgement.Why have it?

Faith, you dont need to follow Christ according to you--you will be saved anyway. So have a good time in the world , if you really believe that you'll be saved, anyway..
I dont think you really believe that.

He doesn't really believe it. Universalism is a coping mechanism for people who love sin more than God but don't want to go to hell.

 

[FaithWillDo]

With all due respect, I don't go round and round with folks who won't address my points.

I disproved your claim that Satan's children can be recipients of God's Spirit while remaining in a fallen state by showing you that God only gives His Spirit to them that obey Him (Acts 5:32 KJV) while Satan's children can't obey Him even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV) and you won't address that...because you know my point is bulletproof, but since you're unwilling to abandon Total Depravity my point must go unaddressed.

So, by all means, carry on with Universalism but let's not pretend there aren't bulletproof points to disprove it.

Dear Phoneman777,
I clearly explained by scripture that Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit to the children of the Devil (all mankind). Otherwise, how can a person have any faith in Christ? Where would their faith come from? Certainly not from within themselves. Paul says that a believer's faith is a gift from God and does not comes from themselves (Eph 2:8).

As for Acts 5:32, the Holy Spirit that Peter is referencing comes from the gift of the Latter Rain.

Since you cannot accept that there is a Early Rain of the Spirit (which is what gives a person their faith), you have to rely on the false teaching of man's free will ability to explain why some people have faith and why some people don't. However, this understanding is contradicted by many scriptures, one of which is below:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If a person really does have a free will ability, then why do some people accept Christ and some don't? The only reasons that there could be is that the saved people are smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who reject Christ. Which one of those reasons do you claim?

If a person can claim that they are saved because they made the correct free will choice, the saved people could claim that they have something to boast about concerning their salvation. Paul contradicts this claim though because he said no one has anything to boast about concerning their salvation and that a person's "works" play no part in their salvation. But when a person claims that their salvation was caused by their free will choice to accept Christ, they are making their choice a "work". When a person has this belief, they are mixing their works with faith - and this is the sin that leads to death. That deceptive sin is the foundation of Satan's false gospel and that is why all the apostate churches of this world believe in at least some form of free will ability.

So how do you explain this conflict between your beliefs in "works" and what Paul wrote above?

Take a look at this scripture:

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The 24 elders are representative of the Elect (2 x 12). They cast their crowns before Christ because they know that they did nothing to deserve their crowns. They know that all the "works" done for their salvation were the works of Christ and that He is solely responsible for who they have become. The 24 elders do not believe in mankind's supposed free will ability, otherwise, they could be able to claim at least some responsibility for why they were saved (as you are claiming).

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

He doesn't really believe it. Universalism is a coping mechanism for people who love sin more than God but don't want to go to hell.

Dear Phoneman777,
You must not really be reading my posts or you are trying to discredit my testimony with things I don't believe or teach.
Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

You can read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single verse that even remotely suggests we have opportunity to obtain salvation after we die. Jesus said there remains for the dead only to rise in the Resurrection of the Just or the Resurrection of the Damned with no mention of your "Resurrection of the Re-Programmed".

Dear Phoneman777,
I think you may have over looked a few scriptures:

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation (the end of the final age), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Joe

 

[Dan Clarkston]

By "alarm" I mean "focused concern" not "fearfulness" which we're told 365 times to never be. Paul and the other Bible writers knew end time Christians would be fast asleep instead of being "watchful" and "ready".

Concerns is still worry and anxiety.

We are instructed to cast our cares upon the Lord.

 

[strepho]

Revelation chapter 12. Satan as accuser is currently in heaven, accusing Christian people before throne of God.

The Pope is absolutely nonsense.

Revelation chapter 13. The one world political system receives deadly wound near future. Satan as antichrist will come 6th trump. He heals deadly wound, by absorbing nations back in the one world political.

When satan as antichrist comes near future, it becomes one world religious system.

Those who are biblically illiterate will worship antichrist near future.

Ephesians chapter 6. Many shepherds have failed to prepare their flocks for antichrist.

Not teaching old testament or revelation.
Promoting the rapture theory, which is lie.

The gospel armour is knowledge and wisdom of God's word. You need gospel armour on to stand against antichrist lies and deception near future.

Some pastors or priests lie about what happened in garden of eden.

We see why many people don't prayer of chance against antichrist.

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
I clearly explained by scripture that Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit to the children of the Devil (all mankind). Otherwise, how can a person have any faith in Christ? Where would their faith come from? Certainly not from within themselves. Paul says that a believer's faith is a gift from God and does not comes from themselves (Eph 2:8).

As for Acts 5:32, the Holy Spirit that Peter is referencing comes from the gift of the Latter Rain.

Since you cannot accept that there is a Early Rain of the Spirit (which is what gives a person their faith), you have to rely on the false teaching of man's free will ability to explain why some people have faith and why some people don't. However, this understanding is contradicted by many scriptures, one of which is below:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If a person really does have a free will ability, then why do some people accept Christ and some don't? The only reasons that there could be is that the saved people are smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who reject Christ. Which one of those reasons do you claim?

If a person can claim that they are saved because they made the correct free will choice, the saved people could claim that they have something to boast about concerning their salvation. Paul contradicts this claim though because he said no one has anything to boast about concerning their salvation and that a person's "works" play no part in their salvation. But when a person claims that their salvation was caused by their free will choice to accept Christ, they are making their choice a "work". When a person has this belief, they are mixing their works with faith - and this is the sin that leads to death. That deceptive sin is the foundation of Satan's false gospel and that is why all the apostate churches of this world believe in at least some form of free will ability.

So how do you explain this conflict between your beliefs in "works" and what Paul wrote above?

Take a look at this scripture:

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The 24 elders are representative of the Elect (2 x 12). They cast their crowns before Christ because they know that they did nothing to deserve their crowns. They know that all the "works" done for their salvation were the works of Christ and that He is solely responsible for who they have become. The 24 elders do not believe in mankind's supposed free will ability, otherwise, they could be able to claim at least some responsibility for why they were saved (as you are claiming).

Joe

I clearly explained to you no unconverted can partake of God's Spirit because, according to Acts 5:32 KJV, God only gives His spirit to "them that obey Him" while Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to - but since you disregard this so that you can continue basing Universalism on this false idea, that shows me you're unreasonable and I'm not interested in discussing things with unreasonable people. So, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
You must not really be reading my posts or you are trying to discredit my testimony with things I don't believe or teach.
Joe

No, I stopped reading them when you refused to admit that only converted people can be recipients of God's Spirit, according to Acts 5:32 KJV and Romans 8:7 KJV:

"For we are His witnesses, and so also is the Holy Ghost, Whom God hath given to them that OBEY Him."

"The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

 

[FaithWillDo]

I clearly explained to you no unconverted can partake of God's Spirit because, according to Acts 5:32 KJV, God only gives His spirit to "them that obey Him" while Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to - but since you disregard this so that you can continue basing Universalism on this false idea, that shows me you're unreasonable and I'm not interested in discussing things with unreasonable people. So, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Dear Phoneman777,
You said:
no unconverted can partake of God's Spirit

Without God's Spirit, a person cannot be converted. To be converted, they must receive the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

The Early Rain is freely given to an unbeliever so that they will have faith in Christ. Without the Early Rain of the Spirit, no person can have faith and call Jesus "Lord".

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The Early Rain gives a new believer some understanding of Christ (Christ and Him crucified, 1Cor 2:2) and a measure of faith (Rom 12:3).

You are rejecting the truth taught by the Early Rain of the Spirit and have replaced it with man's works.

Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road as he was travelling to persecute Christians in Damascus. Paul was not obedient no matter how a person defines it and, in fact, hated Christ. But after Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit, Paul immediately had fell to His knees and called Jesus "Lord". With that measure of faith, Paul submitted to the Lord's authority:

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

This is how a person comes to have faith in Christ. It can come to them no other way.

After 3 days (represents a spiritual process), Christ returned to Paul (typed by Ananias) and gave Paul the Latter Rain of the Spirit. That is when Paul's spiritual blindness was healed and the Marriage Supper began.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

So when do you say Paul was saved? Was it on the Damascus Road when Paul confessed Jesus as Lord and submitted to Him (Early Rain)? Or was it when Paul was baptized by the Spirit (Latter Rain)?

Since you mentioned it, here is Peter's statement again:

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

A person's faith in Christ is what makes Christ's pathway straight for Him to come and give the person the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The person's faith came from the Early Rain of the Spirit that they received earlier. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is what gives the person their new birth. It is immediately followed by the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (which is the spiritual fulfillment of the Lord's Supper) where Christ directly feeds His new bride the truth of God. With this truth, judgment will fall on the believer and will destroy their carnality. After their judgment is complete, the person will be converted.

Faith (repentance from works) is all the obedience a believer needs in order for Christ to come to them and convert them. That is why the New Covenant is said to be "Grace through Faith". It is not Grace through Works as you and the apostate church teach.

Since 100% of the work necessary for a person's salvation comes from the Lord, nothing can stop Christ from saving all mankind. After all, that is the reason why the Father sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Also, you are saying that when Christ judges a person in the Lake of Fire that He won't have mercy upon them. But He will have mercy upon them, and from His mercy, He will freely give them the faith (Early Rain) they need to be converted.

Your judgment is no different than the judgment of the Pharisees (Mat 23:23). Where is your love for your neighbors? Does it end when they die?

That will not be the case for the Lord:

Lam 3:22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;

Joe

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
I think you may have over looked a few scriptures:

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Did you notice it says "things" and not "people"? The curse of sin hangs over the entire creation - animals tear each other limb from limb, tectonic plates slide on each other causing deadly quakes, fierce deadly weather events are everywhere all the time, etc. The verse is talking about "all things" not "all people".

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life.

Yes, righteousness is made available to all who "seek for glory, honor, and immortality" (Romans 2:7 KJV). The wicked aren't seeking it, and therefore will not be recipients of it.

19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

Notice the text says "many" and not "all", right?

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This refers to the work of CONVERTED MEN - not the unconverted lost.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

"Them" refers to the saints - which would be "most miserable" and "yet in their sins" if Jesus did not rise from the dead and become the "firstfruits of the resurrection", right or wrong?

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Yes, all are going to be "made alive" when they rise to "Second Life" in either the Resurrection of the Just or the Resurrection of the Damned - but only the saints rise to eternal "Second Life". The wicked die the "Second Death" which is eternal death, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation (the end of the final age), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Daniel 7:22 KJV says the saints are given the kingdom and the judgment, and Daniel 7:28 KJV says it's given to the "people of the saints" - which means there are "people not of the saints" who are not given the kingdom.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I can't believe Universalism relies on such vague, loose interpretations like this! Yes, God will be "all in all" because the wicked won't be a part of the "all" once they're blotted out of existence in Annihilation.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Yes, just before "fire came down from God out of heaven and destroyed them all" the wicked outside descended New Jerusalem will join the righteous inside of it in bowing down and kneeling and confessing Jesus is Lord. Guided by satanic desperation, they'll rise to their feet after confessing Jesus is Lord and will rush up to the city walls and surround the city, just before the fire falls. How does this "prove" Universalism?

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Those who die the Second Death are not beneficiaries of "reconciliation" aka "to coexist in harmony". If you're going to "coexist in harmony" you first must exist - which the wicked will not once they die the Second Death, which is eternal death, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God wants all men to be saved just like He wants all men to keep His commandments (Psalms 40:8 KJV) - do all of us keep them? All men aren't going to be saved, either.

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Joe

Yes, every creature that hasn't passed out of existence in the Second Death and remains in existence will say those things.