End times eschatology and the hatred for it

[MatthewG]

Amazon.com

View attachment 36262

Helpful cheap book.

 

[jeffweeder]

The only ones who would see it where those faithful. Unbelievers didnt see it… they had no faith.

7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes (nations) of the earth will mourn over Him [realizing their sin and guilt, and anticipating the coming wrath]. So it is to be. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega [the Beginning and the End],” says the Lord God, “Who is [existing forever] and Who was [continually existing in the past] and Who is to come, the Almighty [the Omnipotent, the Ruler of all].”

 

[MatthewG]

@jeffweeder will you answer my question?

Also have you read the book of Joshua in a long time?

The tweleve tribes of israel are their own little nations, and they all live on the land “earth”,

You can continue to quote those scriptures and try to say its the whole world, but it is not, and its only those are faithful who are watching and waiting…

Those who arent believing in that time dont care…

Therefore I thank you for sharing your postion but you can see its gonna be difficult to get me to convert over to what you believe that “I should” believe.

Also do you believe those people where fooled by Jesus and his apostles, about his appearing?

Im really just curious, you can be honest and i wont hit you in the face for it… after all Im not responsible for what people choose to believe by their own merit of freely given life.

 

[jeffweeder]

You have a spiritual body you build up. Do spiritual bodies feel pain or do they experenice death? Jesus over came pyschal death, and he overcame spiritual death… i dont know how to answer your question.

Jesus never died spiritually Matthew. If he had there would be no salvation. Only sinners are born again of the spirit.

We look forward to our redemption of the body on the last day.

Rom 8
23 And not only this, but we too, who have the first fruits of the Spirit [a joyful indication of the blessings to come], even we groan inwardly, as we wait eagerly for [the sign of] our adoption as sons—the redemption and transformation of our body [at the resurrection]. 24 For in this hope we were saved [by faith]. But hope [the object of] which is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait eagerly for it with patience and composure.

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[MatthewG]

Jesus never died spiritually Matthew. If he had there would be no salvation. Only sinners are born again of the spirit.

We look forward to our redemption of the body on the last day.

Rom 8
23 And not only this, but we too, who have the first fruits of the Spirit [a joyful indication of the blessings to come], even we groan inwardly, as we wait eagerly for [the sign of] our adoption as sons—the redemption and transformation of our body [at the resurrection]. 24 For in this hope we were saved [by faith]. But hope [the object of] which is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait eagerly for it with patience and composure.

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Never said he did… i said he overcame spirtiual death… what Adam did die in… jesus was the second Adam…

Thank you for sharing.

Hope you will answer my other questions @jeffweeder but if not its fine imma try to nap for the next three hours maybe i can. Idk. Gotta work today but tgif.

 

[jeffweeder]

Also do you believe those people where fooled by Jesus and his apostles, about his appearing?

Jesus said he would raise us all on the last day. That implies most people died with the blessed hope of his coming to be raised in the future.
Jesus said the very word he spoke in the first century will judge all who reject him on the last day also.

2Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure [from this world] is at hand and I will soon go free.
7 I have fought the good and worthy and noble fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith [firmly guarding the gospel against error]. 8 In the future there is reserved for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and longed for and welcomed His appearing.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I hate eschatology.

Simple solution:
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

[MatthewG]

The last days started in Acts. The great and dreadful day of the Lord was foretold in Malachi.

 

[MatthewG]

Simple solution:
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Why do you decide to mention? Do you a reason why you desired to throw this quoted passage out?

Because it doesnt deal with the topic at hand.

 

[MatthewG]

@jeffweeder

I love you no matter what.

Do you wanna even touch the questions I asked of you?

Did jesus lie to those four apostles when he told them about all things should happen to the people of that generation?

Did Paul lie to timothy about all the hope they had of seeing Jesus appear to save them from the wrath of God (that proclaimed by John the Baptist, and found in Malachi?) in that generation?

Like i said you dont have to answer and i love you either way friend.

God is good and allows freedom

 

[ewq1938]

I guess all those people were lied to then about his appearing@ewq1938. I dont believe so.

The bible says to watch. The people of the 1st century watched and there was no second coming. People of the 2nd and 3rd and on and on have watched but He has not yet returned.

 

[ewq1938]

The only ones who would see it where those faithful. Unbelievers didnt see it… they had no faith.

Wrong. All will see it:

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This unscriptural secret coming you speak of matches the false teaching of Pre-trib where they also teach an unscriptural secret coming.

 

[MatthewG]

Wrong. All will see it:

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This unscriptural secret coming you speak of matches the false teaching of Pre-trib where they also teach an unscriptural secret coming.

Thats common scripture quote

Doesnt make it true for today,

You do have believers waiting and watching, and you also have unbelievers who reported the surrounding times,

But only believers seen Jesus coming.

 

[MatthewG]

No one except Full Preterists claim the second coming has happened.

Cool.

 

[MatthewG]

John says those times where going to happen shortly, not in 2023.

 

[ewq1938]

Thats common scripture quote

Doesnt make it true for today,

Then you deny the scripture and what it says will happen in favor of your unscriptural belief.

You do have believers waiting and watching, and you also have unbelievers who reported the surrounding times,

But only believers seen Jesus coming.

No one has seen the second coming yet.

 

[MatthewG]

let me ask you the same questions as Jeff then @ewq1938.

Did Jesus lie to that generation?
Did the apostles lie getting ready the church bride?

Whats the point in beliving the bible if they did?

I believe by faith that he came and got them.

So no i dont deny the scripture as you claim.

 

[ewq1938]

John says those times where going to happen shortly, not in 2023.

That's barely two days in God's time and the words were spoken by God through various prophets. The prophets themselves did not know the day or hour. Only God did.

The dead will rise in immortal bodies. Many scriptures speak of this. That is clear evidence that the second coming has not happened.

 

[MatthewG]

If you can answer my questions, that will be fine @ewq1938 while i love you no matter what, your beliefs are your beliefs…

I dont have to accept or adhere to them.

What is to be adhered to is putting Yahava first, beliving on his Son, and loving God and loving others…

You can disagree all day ill never accept that Jesus lied to those people or the aposltes going around telling him he was coming back then, that is a personal choice.

Its still about faith, and sharing good things with others which God is pleased by those actions.

 

[ewq1938]

let me ask you the same questions as Jeff then @ewq1938.

Did Jesus lie to that generation?

No. Do you think he lied? You already have denied that every eye will see his return, claimed the opposite that only the faithful saw it.

Did the apostles lie getting ready the church bride?

Whats the point in beliving the bible if they did?

I believe by faith that he came and got them.

None of this is true. He didn't come get them. No one was changed to immortals and raptured. None of the dead have been raised immortal. There is no ruling of the nation by these resurrected immortal saints. You have decided to believe in your own personal version of events which have always been condemned as heresy by the entire church of believers in nearly every denomination. Believe as you wish, but I agree with them.

So no i dont deny the scripture as you claim.

MatthewG: Unbelievers didnt see it
Jesus: every eye shall see him