End times eschatology and the hatred for it

[Lambano]

People dont give those people in the first century a lot of credit for being killed and dying for faith and holding on for him to come rescue them…

We may get the opportunity to "Go thou and do likewise".

 

[MatthewG]

Have a good day,

And remember be skeptical about what anyone says, even me, hold on to what is good… and test all things by the spirit…

Jesus promised to return, to those people then, who had very hard and rough lives even being put on crosses to die…

Many people where hoping thst for Jesus to come rescue them.


Many people deny them even high honors for being the bride of Christ they were to get you into the Kingdom, cause after the first fruits doesnt mean there is not more to come…

Any other repeated arguments will be ignored, from already spoken to memebers.

 

[MatthewG]

We may get the opportunity to "Go thou and do likewise".

All spiritual; all the material means ended.

Pick your cross, deny yourself, be buried with christ be raised with Christ and suffer for Christ.

All up to you.

 

[MatthewG]

Have a good day onwards to work.

 

[Lambano]

I have no idea what "spiritual" is anyway.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus promised to return, to those people then, who had very hard and rough lives even being put on crosses to die…

He promised no such thing to them but they died as Martyrs and they shall be rewarded when he does return. They are in heaven now waiting for the resurrection and can be found in the 5th seal.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Brakelite]

@MatthewG
The vision in Daniel 2 reveals the history of mankind from the time of Babylon to the second coming. 4 empires, the 4th changing nature, and yet enduring right to the end, but finally destroyed at the second coming along with the philosophical and ideological remnants of all the others. The 4th kingdom was Rome. Rome was around until the 5th century, taken over by the 10 barbarian tribes. (See Daniel 7). However, the iron of Rome didn't completely disappear, continuing in conjunction with the clay until the second coming.
That clay/iron mix is ap profound and accurate prophetic description of 1500 years of Roman Catholicism...a mix of pagan Roman statecraft with Pontifex Maximus at the head, and religious syncretism of Christianity and Greek philosophy. That union will be destroyed at the second coming... The Rock turned without hands... Never to rise again. It's still with us. Christ hasn't come physically as promised. Yet.

 

[atpollard]

the hatred for eschatology.

Do you?

I less hate the eschatology, than I hate:

• the endless and pointless bickering over it.
• the walls of text "explaining" in detail what amounts to complete speculation and scripture-mining when you scratch the surface.
• the ARROGANCE of the spirits that claim DEFINITIVE knowledge of visions that should be approached with humility and fear and trembling.

So rather than suffer all of the above (over and over), it is more PROFITABLE to focus on Here and Now and to leave the shouting matches to the PONTIFICATIONS of KOOKS.

• Jesus really came.
• Jesus left for a while.
• Jesus WILL really return.
• We will all be there.

... Those are the important parts that we NEED to know. Everything else is just "details".

 

[Marty fox]

the hatred for eschatology.

Do you?

Well, if you hate it just know because you dont desire to study it you are missing out on a lot of things which can help you in your advantage of understanding the end times.

They began in Acts…

Then it progressed, from Jesus in which an entire generation would not fail to see what was promised to them.

The only problem for some that may scream sola scriptura sola scriptura; you gotta use secular accounts, from Josephus, Cassius Dio, Tacticus, Suetonious. To help aid you in your study.

In Ad 70 a whole generation of people that lived and seen Jesus. Was burnt and laid to waste bodies high in the streets and so many people hung on crosses they were running out of room. Those who were faithful were taken up, with the Lord because they werr watching and waiting for Him to come as promised.

That is a difficult task no lie, especially with how our bodies tend to not wanna study even the bible itself…

The flesh is weak but the spirit is willing.

Dont trust everything you read from others.

All the best; be skeptical… and question everything and test it for yourself.

Hi Matthew the Christians were not raptured back then but God did save them.

The Romans first surrounded Jerusalem in 67AD, but after a short while for reasons no one knows they retreated, then the Jews chased them down and defeated them in the battle of Bethsaida. After this Cesar then angered about what the Jews did sent the Roman’s back and they then defeated and destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD.

The Christians within Jerusalem heeded Jesus warning from the Olivit Discourse and escaped the city when the Rome withdrew thus God saved all of the Jewish saints from the wrath of revelation. They watched and were saved.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Then it progressed, from Jesus in which an entire generation would not fail to see what was promised to them.

if that is the basis for not failing to see what was promised to them. What of Job who said he would see the Lord stand in the last days in his own flesh? (By the way we say He had to return literally and physically to remove them. But that they bear fruit and that fruit of the Spirit of God flourishes is not and would not ever be destroyed IS God’s deliverance out from evil and death.)

I get your encouragement to read and not to buy into everything you read. Your understanding is very similar to my husbands. To be honest i don't disagree a lot with what my husband says while i think he does think i disagree with all of it. I just get frustrated because it's never taken into account how it makes me feel to receive feedback that it is historical and i make a grave error in thinking i fit anywhere in the text or the spoke word of God. I get Jesus stood and looked at the temple and what was happening and said, "see these they are coming down."

If you go back and look at what He foretold of, to me yes there was a literal prophecy but also a Spiritual prophecy in the stones not left unturned, all to come down being the stony hearts of men. where nothing will be taken out of it to rebuild with. Same as "a sign to be spoken against" He is...where even Mary was told a sword would enter her heart, that the hearts of many be revealed. After that the word speaks of many in Isarel fall and rise again. If that is only literal for that "age" you speak of as pertaining to Isarel only, then there is nothing taught of the Revelation of Jesus Christ that men will be brought lowly (of heart) and humbled and lifted up again by the Spirit. All that of the high and lofty will be brought low, and that which is lowly will be lifted up…is and was only to Israel is what I hear. if that was only to Isarel then we might as well disregard "repent you sinners. Humble yourselves, mourn, and Christ will lift you up." if only historically Jerusalem fell and rose again...then none fall(and are brought low and humbled) and rise again in Christ today. Which still happens so how can it be historical and spoken of as pertaining to the Jews and what happened in the 1st century.

In Ad 70 a whole generation of people that lived and seen Jesus. Was burnt and laid to waste bodies high in the streets and so many people hung on crosses they were running out of room.

many burnt and lain to waste, so many people hung on crosses they were running out of room. How many hang on crosses today. To hear tell it a lot say they have been and are crucified with Christ. We say literally burnt. Literally laid waste. Paul said “I burn.” Thankfully He said "I go to prepare room. I go to make room." burnt. Laid waste. So many they run out of room for all that has been laid waste...is no bad thing in my opinion it is good news. In Christ Knew He had to go to build a bigger (Spiritual) house to receive it all unto Himself. It was going to abound unto the Lord that much. There wouldn’t be room enough to receive it. And He said this in the carnal man cannot receive the promises of God. There is not room enough in that carnal man’s heart to receive the promises of God. “And they that shall be of you (The restorer, the repairer of the breach) shall build the old (lain)waste places: you shall raise(it) up (again)the foundations of (not only one generation but) many generations; and you shall (will)be called, the repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell in."... "for we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." --what that says to me is they "worship God in the spirit" the same age Christ spoke of to the woman by the well concerning the days coming they will "worship God in the spirit" so who here on the board is not of the same days as they were and are of "worship God in the spirit."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have no idea what "spiritual" is anyway.

to me spiritual means the fruit of the Spirit of God should be of more interest than physical healings, physical wealth and gain. How I should be more concerned about my mental state than my physical state. What is concerning to me is I’ve come to be okay that I don’t expect God to heal me physically. I don’t expect him to give me money. Or To make me rich literally. I don’t expect Him to answer me for that best job or to fulfill any of my desires to puff myself up so I stand out or even fit in. That I can accept. But when I said I’m concerned it is because I think I know what He means by joy, hope, peace, longsuffering, patience, brotherly kindness, Fruit of the Spirit of God. I don’t see that either. I would be rich, joyful, abounding if those things were given but He doesn’t answer me. Which makes me doubt there is a God who desires those things to increase. Maybe it is me. But more and more I’ve stopped reading the word or even wanting to hear about God. Maybe that is because I still am not right in my heart because I’m sulking give me the Fruit of God or I am giving up. Which can’t be right. There has to be something I want that I’m not getting because I want to walk away and be finished with it. No more asking. No more seeking.

 

[Lambano]

But when I said I’m concerned it is because I think I know what He means by joy, hope, peace, longsuffering, patience, brotherly kindness, Fruit of the Spirit of God. I don’t see that either. I would be rich, joyful, abounding if those things were given but He doesn’t answer me. Which makes me doubt there is a God who desires those things to increase. Maybe it is me. But more and more I’ve stopped reading the word or even wanting to hear about God. Maybe that is because I still am not right in my heart because I’m sulking give me the Fruit of God or I am giving up. Which can’t be right. There has to be something I want that I’m not getting because I want to walk away and be finished with it. No more asking. No more seeking.

Is it okay if I want these good things for you?

 

[MatthewG]

Hi Matthew the Christians were not raptured back then but God did save them.

It had to have happened, my friend, the people in Thessalonica had been promised, that was gonna happen from Paul.

That is what I am trying to nail in the coffin of the people who don't realize this stuff, but its okay if they wanna disagree you know?

What it it to me if people wanna continue to have hope that Jesus Christ is coming back? That is all fine and okay with me, and I love them.

Ya know? It's just ... when hope is continued to preach and it doesn't seem like Jesus still hasn't come back after 40 years of preaching it, that begs to question...

Did he already, and is now on the throne?

A question unanswered for me - but for it is faith, that Jesus came back, those who were waiting, seen and saw him. They were taken away, after the tribulation of those days, and gathered just as Jesus promised... It had to have happened.

The Romans first surrounded Jerusalem in 67AD, but after a short while for reasons no one knows they retreated, then the Jews chased them down and defeated them in the battle of Bethsaida. After this Cesar then angered about what the Jews did sent the Roman’s back and they then defeated and destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD.

The Christians within Jerusalem heeded Jesus warning from the Olivit Discourse and escaped the city when the Rome withdrew thus God saved all of the Jewish saints from the wrath of revelation. They watched and were saved.

 

[MatthewG]

I less hate the eschatology, than I hate:

• the endless and pointless bickering over it.
• the walls of text "explaining" in detail what amounts to complete speculation and scripture-mining when you scratch the surface.
• the ARROGANCE of the spirits that claim DEFINITIVE knowledge of visions that should be approached with humility and fear and trembling.

So rather than suffer all of the above (over and over), it is more PROFITABLE to focus on Here and Now and to leave the shouting matches to the PONTIFICATIONS of KOOKS.

• Jesus really came.
• Jesus left for a while.
• Jesus WILL really return.
• We will all be there.

... Those are the important parts that we NEED to know. Everything else is just "details".

A lot of it deals with faith would you say?

 

[MatthewG]

if that is the basis for not failing to see what was promised to them. What of Job who said he would see the Lord stand in the last days in his own flesh? (By the way we say He had to return literally and physically to remove them. But that they bear fruit and that fruit of the Spirit of God flourishes is not and would not ever be destroyed IS God’s deliverance out from evil and death.)

I get your encouragement to read and not to buy into everything you read. Your understanding is very similar to my husbands. To be honest i don't disagree a lot with what my husband says while i think he does think i disagree with all of it. I just get frustrated because it's never taken into account how it makes me feel to receive feedback that it is historical and i make a grave error in thinking i fit anywhere in the text or the spoke word of God. I get Jesus stood and looked at the temple and what was happening and said, "see these they are coming down."

If you go back and look at what He foretold of, to me yes there was a literal prophecy but also a Spiritual prophecy in the stones not left unturned, all to come down being the stony hearts of men. where nothing will be taken out of it to rebuild with. Same as "a sign to be spoken against" He is...where even Mary was told a sword would enter her heart, that the hearts of many be revealed. After that the word speaks of many in Isarel fall and rise again. If that is only literal for that "age" you speak of as pertaining to Isarel only, then there is nothing taught of the Revelation of Jesus Christ that men will be brought lowly (of heart) and humbled and lifted up again by the Spirit. All that of the high and lofty will be brought low, and that which is lowly will be lifted up…is and was only to Israel is what I hear. if that was only to Isarel then we might as well disregard "repent you sinners. Humble yourselves, mourn, and Christ will lift you up." if only historically Jerusalem fell and rose again...then none fall(and are brought low and humbled) and rise again in Christ today. Which still happens so how can it be historical and spoken of as pertaining to the Jews and what happened in the 1st century.



many burnt and lain to waste, so many people hung on crosses they were running out of room. How many hang on crosses today. To hear tell it a lot say they have been and are crucified with Christ. We say literally burnt. Literally laid waste. Paul said “I burn.” Thankfully He said "I go to prepare room. I go to make room." burnt. Laid waste. So many they run out of room for all that has been laid waste...is no bad thing in my opinion it is good news. In Christ Knew He had to go to build a bigger (Spiritual) house to receive it all unto Himself. It was going to abound unto the Lord that much. There wouldn’t be room enough to receive it. And He said this in the carnal man cannot receive the promises of God. There is not room enough in that carnal man’s heart to receive the promises of God. “And they that shall be of you (The restorer, the repairer of the breach) shall build the old (lain)waste places: you shall raise(it) up (again)the foundations of (not only one generation but) many generations; and you shall (will)be called, the repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell in."... "for we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." --what that says to me is they "worship God in the spirit" the same age Christ spoke of to the woman by the well concerning the days coming they will "worship God in the spirit" so who here on the board is not of the same days as they were and are of "worship God in the spirit."

Here is the point that gets to me VIJ,

While I believe Jesus Christ did come in faith, right? That is just a personal subjective belief.

There is nothing greater than a person who starts to believe and faith, and die, and be buried, and rise again with Christ, by the spirit of God that raised him up from the dead and to walk in faith, not by sight, and to walk in step with the spirit. See, I made this thread, because it an encouragement... as the first post helps in giving some insights on where to look on the occasion of what is being talked about via secular history, but some will hate that is even something mention "oh man this guy suggest you read something secular!" Burn him at the stake, you know type of mentality.

I love you, your husband, all these members on the board... and don't hate any of them. They are unique and are all viable people who believe in the death, burial, and resurrection and even acension of Christ, and not everyone believes he came back and that is fine.

You can find all sorts of spiritual principles laid out with-in the bible, while I am at work, the notion is to try to give 100% every day that I am there regardless of the pain. Some people look at me and probably wonder why, and a lot of the times, i just say I am working as though I am working for the LORD. Cause there is nothing wrong in desiring to work hard, or to work well... ya know? And that also comes down to the notion of, denying the self and being kind and saying hello to others, stopping to see how they are and their families are, maybe even give a prayer with the person... All I know is that it is okay, to believe Jesus Christ came, and to continue to walk in faith and in the spirit and build up - spiritual treasures... as you go about this life, and honor God by and through dying to self, picking up the cross, burying the old person, and raising again to newness of life.

 

[MatthewG]

He promised no such thing to them but they died as Martyrs and they shall be rewarded when he does return. They are in heaven now waiting for the resurrection and can be found in the 5th seal.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Matthew 16

 

[MatthewG]

I have no idea what "spiritual" is anyway.

Lambano, I am also a selfish, and greedy human being, it's okay.

Talked with a lady (61 Years old) today at 1st break... she said we are selfish people aren't we...

I said yes, we are... and we talked about the Lord.

There are a lot of interesting people who are willingly to share about the LORD, it is pretty cool and it something to praise God for, ...

This land is dry, with people who need some eternal waters.

 

[Nancy]

@jeffweeder

Go look up what earth means in greek.

You can a bible literalist if you like to…

But earth just means “land”, kind of reminds me of a game that I use to play where you could cast “earth” and it would on pull up a section of land.

"...all those who live on the face of all the earth. All those "people..." who are living ON this ball of dirt and water...called "earth"

 

[ScottA]

the hatred for eschatology.

Do you?

Well, if you hate it just know because you dont desire to study it you are missing out on a lot of things which can help you in your advantage of understanding the end times.

They began in Acts…

Then it progressed, from Jesus in which an entire generation would not fail to see what was promised to them.

The only problem for some that may scream sola scriptura sola scriptura; you gotta use secular accounts, from Josephus, Cassius Dio, Tacticus, Suetonious. To help aid you in your study.

In Ad 70 a whole generation of people that lived and seen Jesus. Was burnt and laid to waste bodies high in the streets and so many people hung on crosses they were running out of room. Those who were faithful were taken up, with the Lord because they werr watching and waiting for Him to come as promised.

That is a difficult task no lie, especially with how our bodies tend to not wanna study even the bible itself…

The flesh is weak but the spirit is willing.

Dont trust everything you read from others.

All the best; be skeptical… and question everything and test it for yourself.

Indeed, Jesus laid it all out and that generation to whom He spoke (without a 2,000 year gap) then failed to track with Him just as He foretold...as the spirit of anti-Christ was even then already at work. Then, just as it was foretold, "false teachers" entered the church teaching "destructive doctrines" by which the church of today has learned to believe the foretold "lie" causing "strong delusion." And those who have believed the "lie" even now deny all of these things which were foretold.

And here we are.

 

[MatthewG]

"...all those who live on the face of all the earth. All those "people..." who are living ON this ball of dirt and water...called "earth"

It's up to people what they wanna believe Nancy. I don't mind that, because I am not responsible in the end for what people will believe or not believe, all one can really do is present information such as, "earth." Revelation 1:7 - John Greets the Seven Churches



Let's read that whole section though, Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 1 - New American Standard Bible 1995




There is a lot of specifics in the whole narrative, rather just that one verse. You also have a promise of coming quickly, and things too... so there is just a lot of information @Nancy whether people want to look into it or not, is their own choice. And I will love them either way it goes....

I realize I don't spend enough time with people as I probably should... however people also have to make their own choices too... How can I judge?