Nope.
No, but they will not be condemned for it.
No.
It's not equivalent at all. The answer to all three of your previous questions is no.
Grace and peace to you.
Error of Once Saved
- Thread starter robert derrick
- Start date
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Grace and peace to you.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Curious... about your conclusion...
1 John 3:6
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
Are you saying you do not abide in Him?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Error of Once Saved
^ OP
@robert derrick
Curious...are You Saved?
If yes, how many times have you been Saved?
If no, why not?
^ OP
@robert derrick
Curious...are You Saved?
If yes, how many times have you been Saved?
If no, why not?
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
I abide by our Lord, but I’m human and still sin I don’t believe in once saved always saved.
Hey, Scott, are you saying you think it is possible in this life to cease sinning, to be sinless? If so, I would disagree with that. We should understand what John says here in the same light as what Paul says in Romans 7, that regarding sinning, Paul says, "it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me." (Romans 7:20)
Grace and peace to you.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
That’s okay Scott I love our lord Jesus Christ and worship him and the Father, but I’m human and still commit sin.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
John Paul, if I may ... Taken, He's saying that's total Donkey Snot.
Whoever abides in Jesus does not sin intentionally. They strive to obey the 10 Commandments via that same Holy Spirit. You all can argue, til the cows come home, that it's not technically what it says/means, but it wouldn't be possible for James 3:2 to tell us "we all stumble (offend the Holy Spirit) often" if it weren't exactly what John meant by that verse.
The preposterous position, of OSAS mind you (among so many), is that once you are saved, you are always saved and you never sin again, and if you do, it doesn't condemn you, it just takes some of your toys and treats in heaven away.
Total and utter DONKEY SNOT.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
I didn't ask if you liked it, I asked if you realized you were establishing that ridiculous claim.
Clearly you didn't realize it because you can't have it both ways. All that you stated in your post equals at least one of the scenarios that I presented.
Pick one or revise your original statement. You can't have it both ways.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Thank you my good brother, you said what I meant, I don’t intentionally sin and do my best to abide by God’s law but my humanity gets the best of me sometimes.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
And that's exactly why our good brother, James, wrote his chapter 3. So that all the naysayers of God's Commandments couldn't guilt shame those who strive, with sincerity, to live as God wanted us to; encouraging so many to do as they please because they can nonsensically do no wrong once saved.
Horse sweat.
And I didn't say anything in response indicating liking or not liking anything.
My response was, unequivocally, that I was not establishing any such claim, ridiculous or otherwise.
Both "ways" you articulated were ridiculous, and never would I hold to either. And I was very clear in saying that. My goodness.
Nope.
I think we need to revise your statement regarding my "claim." That would be far more productive.
I'm... well aware of that. But I can have it... neither "way."
It's like if you and I make directly opposing statements, they cannot both be right, but one can be right and one wrong, OR both can be wrong. My answer was no to both of your proposed understandings of my "claim."Grace and peace to you. Especially grace.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I am not saying anything different than John or Paul, but saying the same. Nor did they contradict each other.
The problem here is indeed one of misunderstanding--and no one that considers themselves to be a follower of Christ should determine that John or Paul (or any of us who are in accord) have misstated the truth. You seem to have reconciled the two, but somewhat disagree also...so I will explain further:
Neither John or Paul is more or less correct. But John is willing to be conclusively honest and forthright, while Paul is still straddling the line between those who have yet to cross over that line made by Christ between the dead and the living, of which He finished and has claimed victory well before most of the gentiles have come to know. His writings speak of both--not that both continue for those who are in Christ, but rather because then and now there are those just coming to the truth of what John stated in that finality of which Christ has taken with Him to the throne of Heaven. Even Paul was also as forthright to say much the same thing, not putting off what is finished, but stating these things clearly, even saying that we who are in Christ "were" crucified and raised up with Him. Which is to say that Paul did not at all tell of an option for some who consider themselves as having Christ in them, to linger or fall short of what is already finished in them--because he was not speaking of those in who Christ has already come, but of those to whom He has not yet come, but would continue to come into for millennia--"each in his own order."
So, knowing that John and Paul were both correct, we who are in Christ should not aid those who do not know it, but find exception in their own misunderstanding. On the contrary, we should speak of Christ's victory as being finished at the cross.
Scott, I asked a simple yes or no question of you. As I'm sure you well know, John also says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8).
Grace and peace to you.
Grace and peace to you.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Mm-hmm and you, and all your OSAS/Calvinism brethren, don't understand it.
Your knowledge of Scripture is base. You choose doctrine that fits your lifestyles.
You will never be a priest to God because you strive with His priests. You have all rejected knowledge. You have forgotten the Law of God and, in turn, He has forgotten you.
"... thy people are as they that strive with the priest. ... My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to Me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."
Hosea 4:4
Hosea 4:6
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