Yes, and that's... concerning.
What Scripture passage are you referring to here? Are you referring to 1 Thessalonians 4:15? If so, yikes...
Yes if so, maybe you should start a new thread... Grace and peace to you.
Error of Once Saved
- Thread starter robert derrick
- Start date
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Yes if so, maybe you should start a new thread... Grace and peace to you.
LONG POST...but so it the umpteen pages of men FALSELY claiming they ARE SAVED, can still fall way, Still SIN, Sin against men, Forgive men of Sin...
CORRUPT ^^^
REVIEW...the Jews wanted to and attempted to stone Jesus to death, several times....ONCE because Jesus FORGAVE men of their SIN Against God.
* As the Jews pondered and plotted...saying...
Luke 5:
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Yes.
The WORD of God IS before ALL things.
The WORD of God was KILLED BEFORE the foundation of the Earth.
Expressly. Jesus IS BEFORE ALL things. (Col 1:17)
Expressly. Jesus IS the Word of God. (John 1:1)
Expressly. Before the Foundation of the Earth was Laid, Before mankind was created; In Heaven, Lucifer thought in his Heart, he could be Greater than God.
Expressly. The Heart is always a reference to ones absolute Truth.
Expressly. An individual’s LYING TRUTH Against Gods Word, IS KILLING the Word of God.
Expressly. That is HOW and WHEN the Word of God (later revealed Named Jesus), was KILLED, BEFORE the foundation of the Earth was laid.
When, God REVEALS KNOWLEDGE, whether or not WE WAIT to see it manifested, ie Come to pass....Once Spoken BY God, “IT IS ALREADY DONE, ACCOMPLISHED”, and can NOT be UNDONE. IOW, Gods Word IS and STANDS.
CONTINUED
CORRUPT ^^^
REVIEW...the Jews wanted to and attempted to stone Jesus to death, several times....ONCE because Jesus FORGAVE men of their SIN Against God.
* As the Jews pondered and plotted...saying...
Luke 5:
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Yes.
The WORD of God IS before ALL things.
The WORD of God was KILLED BEFORE the foundation of the Earth.
Expressly. Jesus IS BEFORE ALL things. (Col 1:17)
Expressly. Jesus IS the Word of God. (John 1:1)
Expressly. Before the Foundation of the Earth was Laid, Before mankind was created; In Heaven, Lucifer thought in his Heart, he could be Greater than God.
Expressly. The Heart is always a reference to ones absolute Truth.
Expressly. An individual’s LYING TRUTH Against Gods Word, IS KILLING the Word of God.
Expressly. That is HOW and WHEN the Word of God (later revealed Named Jesus), was KILLED, BEFORE the foundation of the Earth was laid.
When, God REVEALS KNOWLEDGE, whether or not WE WAIT to see it manifested, ie Come to pass....Once Spoken BY God, “IT IS ALREADY DONE, ACCOMPLISHED”, and can NOT be UNDONE. IOW, Gods Word IS and STANDS.
CONTINUED
Last edited:
Yes.
Rightfully Dividing the Word of Truth, to me means; ALL Scripture IS TRUE.
Yet ALL individually created and made men & spirits, ARE Different, BECAUSE they ALL have FREEWILL to choose for themselves, what they WILL choose, WILL believe, WILL do.
The DIVIDING, is APPLICATION OF TRUE SCRIPTURE. Some Scripture TRUTHS WILL APPLY to individual men & spirits, and Some Scriptural TRUTHS WILL “NOT” Apply to individual men & spirits.
* EX: I am Converted IN Christ...Scriptures that APPLY to the Converted IN Christ Applies to me. Scriptures that APPLY to those who Reject Christ, does not Apply to me....yet both Scripture ARE TRUE.
CONTINUED
Salvation IS a gift. That gift IS the Christ, who IS the Wisdom, Power, Seed, Quickening Spirit OF GOD.
The conundrum, IS WHO and HOW and WHEN and WHY;
A man CAN RECEIVE that gift.
* man is BORN in SIN, from a mans corrupt seed.
* SIN is AGAINST God.
* man is naturally procreated by mans seed and AGAINST God, neither knowing of Him, or BELIEVING IN Him, ie AGAINST Him.
* mans body is formed, BY God.
* mans body is given Gods Breath of Life in the soul, imparted/ blown into the formed body.
* the corrupt natural born man grows, still being AGAINST God, thus his corruption grows, and what is IN the man is being corrupted, ie the soul.
* learning begins, Parents (ie the ones given the gift of the babe, to care for that gift), obligation to TEACH that babe, GOODNESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, ie Knowledge OF God and His WAYS.
* We know how that goes. (Individually). Some good, Some awful.
* the BABE grows, matures... at the point of adult, what the babe learned from his parents, “right or wrong”, “good or bad”...becomes the adult mans responsibility, to freely choose his PATH, ie. JOURNEY...toward Righteousness OF GOD, or conniving Wickedness of men, or deceiving Evil of demonic spirit angels.
* It’s a dabbling of sorts, trying this, trying that, experiencing the results, deciding the worth of the Risks and Results, to decide his OWN chosen Path to walk, and REMAIN ON, or not.
* The WHO, is the individual.
* The HOW, is the individual TRYING, Experiencing this and that.
* The WHEN, is the individual growing, maturing.
* The WHY, is the individual exercising his FREEWILL.
* Doesn’t matter, IF it be, the individual, hearing, learning, Trying, Experiencing the Effects/Results; of:
Mens conniving wickedness;
Evil spirits deceiving;
Gods righteousness;
....there is ALWAYS a ‘TRIAL’ period, BEFORE a man “HEART-FULLY” (ie a mans TRUTH)....”COMMITS” to “freely choosing HIS PATH”.
* Scripture calls this “TRIAL” period....concerning Gods WAY...as TASTING. (Heb 6:4-5)
(Which is parallel to a man “trying” a new food. Putting the new food in his mouth, deciding IF he likes it...IF he does like it, he will EAT it. IF he doesn’t like it, he will SPIT it out, OR he may be unsure and take more TASTES.
* STOP here, and reflect. RECALL; Men ARE Blessed by the Spirit of God for TASTING the Word of God. They are experiencing the results of that Blessing.
* A man can taste and taste and taste the WORD of God, and continue experiencing the results of Gods Spiritual Blessings.
* HOW LONG CAN A MAN “TASTE” the Word of God...WHILE NEVER “EATING” the WORD of GOD? His Whole entire natural Life-time!!!
* AND WHAT ABOUT THIS MAN?
*..IS this man BELIEVING IN GOD? Yes.
*..IS this man “COMMITTED” TO GOD? No.
WHY NOT? Because he DID NOT “EAT” the Word of God!
Gods Gift of Salvation WAS bought, paid for, BY Jesus Himself. A gift for ALL of mankind. All of mankind’s gift, that REQUIRES a man TO REACH OUT AND “TAKE” his gift.
HOW does a man “REACH OUT” and “TAKE” his gift of Salvation?
He......freely chooses, TO commit himself....”TO EAT”, the Word of God that he has been “TASTING”.
AND THEN WHAT....happens WHEN that man Freely Commits “TO EAT”, the Word of God??
Gods PROMISE of that man Receiving Gods Gift of Salvation, BECOMES manifested IN that man; BY, THROUGH, OF; Christ, the wisdom, power, quickening Spirit, Seed of God!!!
That man IS, BY Gods Works, MADE “CHANGED” once and forever.....“CONVERTED”; SEALED unto God Forever. Forever WITH God. Forever God WITH that man. Forever a wicked man can NOT sway him away from God. Forever an evil spirit can NOT sway him away from God.
That man “IS” become MADE anew. That man “IS” forever Gods “inheritance”.
That man “IS” MADE Righteous, and can NEVER AGAIN, Stand Against the Lord God Almighty....in Disbelief, ie in Sin Against God...that man IS FREED FROM SIN. SINLESS? NO. FORGIVEN, His SIN COVERED by the LIGHT (Spirit OF God) in that man, that God no more SEES his sin, nor remembers his sin.
That man “IS” MADE “NOT SUBJECT” to Wrath.
That man “IS” MADE a member of Christ’s Church. That man “IS” MADE a saint authorized to Dwell in Christ Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom.
That man WILL Christ Jesus bring with Him, (1 Thes 4: 15, 16, 17)to rule and reign WITH Christ Jesus, in His Earthly Kingdom 1,000 year period.
* BUT what ABOUT, the man who spends his life, (be it a year or 50 years) TASTING....but NOT EATING? What is his FATE?
FACT is...he made NO “commitment” to RECEIVE his Salvation while alive in his flesh.
FACT is...he does have Gods Word in his mouth, and HAS NOT, spit it out...
FACT is...he IS WARNED...to ENDURE to his end. IOW, KEEP Gods Word, in his mouth, to the day he physically bodily dies.....AND then WHAT “IF” he DOES?
FACT is...He will RECEIVE his SALVATION, on the day of his physical bodily death. His saved soul, quickened spirit will depart his body, rise to heaven, and wait for Gods WILL to be accomplished on Earth.
FACT is...AFTER Christ Jesus’ millennial reign. And at the time, of the First mass Resurrection of BELIEVERS...”not converted IN Christ”...
GOD WILL BRING with Him... (1 Thes 4: 13, 14)
Preaching, men already SAVED, IN Christ, “are they who must endure to the end”, is in error. Men IN Christ, do not keep HOPING they will be “approved” to be Claimed, Resurrected IN Glory....they ALREADY HAVE their ASSURANCE, BECAUSE they ACCEPTED Gods SALVATION and became MADE “Converted”.
Men “IN” Christ “ARE” Saved. “ARE” Kept “SAVED forever”, expressly BY the POWER of God.....”IN” them!! Their “ASSURANCE” occurred when they “ATE” of the Word of God, and the Spirit of God “CHANGED” them, “MADE” them anew!
John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
SEE the caveat? EATING, is the KEY to receiving SALVATION now. EATING the Word of God, is the KEY of assured SALVATION. The man who EATS the word of God, does not ENDURE, hoping, wondering, unsure to his end “IF” he will be approved and saved. HE IS SAVED, once, forever, and KEPT by the POWER OF GOD “IN” him.
1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
HUGE difference Between...God being “WITH” a man. A man being “WITH” God....which at ANY TIME can change. A man can stop being “WITH” God. God can stop being “WITH” a man....(don’t believe it...review history of how many times God left the Jews on their own, WITHOUT God, because they stopped being WITH Him!!)...ie their DAILY “SPIRITUAL” BREAD, GODS WORD WITH THEM!!
And the difference of Gods SPIRIT being “IN” a man...and God will NEVER LEAVE that man! Thus...the FOR EVER factor, God WITH that man for ever.
THE precise...meaning of ONCE a man “IS” Saved, “IS” Gods Spirit “IN” that man and For ever, Gods Spirit WILL be “with” that man. OSAS.
Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(THEM that ARE “sanctified”, ie SET APART, ARE them that ARE SAVED, Because THEY....DID EAT!!) OSAS!!!
CONTINUED;
The conundrum, IS WHO and HOW and WHEN and WHY;
A man CAN RECEIVE that gift.
* man is BORN in SIN, from a mans corrupt seed.
* SIN is AGAINST God.
* man is naturally procreated by mans seed and AGAINST God, neither knowing of Him, or BELIEVING IN Him, ie AGAINST Him.
* mans body is formed, BY God.
* mans body is given Gods Breath of Life in the soul, imparted/ blown into the formed body.
* the corrupt natural born man grows, still being AGAINST God, thus his corruption grows, and what is IN the man is being corrupted, ie the soul.
* learning begins, Parents (ie the ones given the gift of the babe, to care for that gift), obligation to TEACH that babe, GOODNESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, ie Knowledge OF God and His WAYS.
* We know how that goes. (Individually). Some good, Some awful.
* the BABE grows, matures... at the point of adult, what the babe learned from his parents, “right or wrong”, “good or bad”...becomes the adult mans responsibility, to freely choose his PATH, ie. JOURNEY...toward Righteousness OF GOD, or conniving Wickedness of men, or deceiving Evil of demonic spirit angels.
* It’s a dabbling of sorts, trying this, trying that, experiencing the results, deciding the worth of the Risks and Results, to decide his OWN chosen Path to walk, and REMAIN ON, or not.
* The WHO, is the individual.
* The HOW, is the individual TRYING, Experiencing this and that.
* The WHEN, is the individual growing, maturing.
* The WHY, is the individual exercising his FREEWILL.
* Doesn’t matter, IF it be, the individual, hearing, learning, Trying, Experiencing the Effects/Results; of:
Mens conniving wickedness;
Evil spirits deceiving;
Gods righteousness;
....there is ALWAYS a ‘TRIAL’ period, BEFORE a man “HEART-FULLY” (ie a mans TRUTH)....”COMMITS” to “freely choosing HIS PATH”.
* Scripture calls this “TRIAL” period....concerning Gods WAY...as TASTING. (Heb 6:4-5)
(Which is parallel to a man “trying” a new food. Putting the new food in his mouth, deciding IF he likes it...IF he does like it, he will EAT it. IF he doesn’t like it, he will SPIT it out, OR he may be unsure and take more TASTES.
* STOP here, and reflect. RECALL; Men ARE Blessed by the Spirit of God for TASTING the Word of God. They are experiencing the results of that Blessing.
* A man can taste and taste and taste the WORD of God, and continue experiencing the results of Gods Spiritual Blessings.
* HOW LONG CAN A MAN “TASTE” the Word of God...WHILE NEVER “EATING” the WORD of GOD? His Whole entire natural Life-time!!!
* AND WHAT ABOUT THIS MAN?
*..IS this man BELIEVING IN GOD? Yes.
*..IS this man “COMMITTED” TO GOD? No.
WHY NOT? Because he DID NOT “EAT” the Word of God!
Gods Gift of Salvation WAS bought, paid for, BY Jesus Himself. A gift for ALL of mankind. All of mankind’s gift, that REQUIRES a man TO REACH OUT AND “TAKE” his gift.
HOW does a man “REACH OUT” and “TAKE” his gift of Salvation?
He......freely chooses, TO commit himself....”TO EAT”, the Word of God that he has been “TASTING”.
AND THEN WHAT....happens WHEN that man Freely Commits “TO EAT”, the Word of God??
Gods PROMISE of that man Receiving Gods Gift of Salvation, BECOMES manifested IN that man; BY, THROUGH, OF; Christ, the wisdom, power, quickening Spirit, Seed of God!!!
That man IS, BY Gods Works, MADE “CHANGED” once and forever.....“CONVERTED”; SEALED unto God Forever. Forever WITH God. Forever God WITH that man. Forever a wicked man can NOT sway him away from God. Forever an evil spirit can NOT sway him away from God.
That man “IS” become MADE anew. That man “IS” forever Gods “inheritance”.
That man “IS” MADE Righteous, and can NEVER AGAIN, Stand Against the Lord God Almighty....in Disbelief, ie in Sin Against God...that man IS FREED FROM SIN. SINLESS? NO. FORGIVEN, His SIN COVERED by the LIGHT (Spirit OF God) in that man, that God no more SEES his sin, nor remembers his sin.
That man “IS” MADE “NOT SUBJECT” to Wrath.
That man “IS” MADE a member of Christ’s Church. That man “IS” MADE a saint authorized to Dwell in Christ Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom.
That man WILL Christ Jesus bring with Him, (1 Thes 4: 15, 16, 17)to rule and reign WITH Christ Jesus, in His Earthly Kingdom 1,000 year period.
* BUT what ABOUT, the man who spends his life, (be it a year or 50 years) TASTING....but NOT EATING? What is his FATE?
FACT is...he made NO “commitment” to RECEIVE his Salvation while alive in his flesh.
FACT is...he does have Gods Word in his mouth, and HAS NOT, spit it out...
FACT is...he IS WARNED...to ENDURE to his end. IOW, KEEP Gods Word, in his mouth, to the day he physically bodily dies.....AND then WHAT “IF” he DOES?
FACT is...He will RECEIVE his SALVATION, on the day of his physical bodily death. His saved soul, quickened spirit will depart his body, rise to heaven, and wait for Gods WILL to be accomplished on Earth.
FACT is...AFTER Christ Jesus’ millennial reign. And at the time, of the First mass Resurrection of BELIEVERS...”not converted IN Christ”...
GOD WILL BRING with Him... (1 Thes 4: 13, 14)
Preaching, men already SAVED, IN Christ, “are they who must endure to the end”, is in error. Men IN Christ, do not keep HOPING they will be “approved” to be Claimed, Resurrected IN Glory....they ALREADY HAVE their ASSURANCE, BECAUSE they ACCEPTED Gods SALVATION and became MADE “Converted”.
Men “IN” Christ “ARE” Saved. “ARE” Kept “SAVED forever”, expressly BY the POWER of God.....”IN” them!! Their “ASSURANCE” occurred when they “ATE” of the Word of God, and the Spirit of God “CHANGED” them, “MADE” them anew!
John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
SEE the caveat? EATING, is the KEY to receiving SALVATION now. EATING the Word of God, is the KEY of assured SALVATION. The man who EATS the word of God, does not ENDURE, hoping, wondering, unsure to his end “IF” he will be approved and saved. HE IS SAVED, once, forever, and KEPT by the POWER OF GOD “IN” him.
1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
HUGE difference Between...God being “WITH” a man. A man being “WITH” God....which at ANY TIME can change. A man can stop being “WITH” God. God can stop being “WITH” a man....(don’t believe it...review history of how many times God left the Jews on their own, WITHOUT God, because they stopped being WITH Him!!)...ie their DAILY “SPIRITUAL” BREAD, GODS WORD WITH THEM!!
And the difference of Gods SPIRIT being “IN” a man...and God will NEVER LEAVE that man! Thus...the FOR EVER factor, God WITH that man for ever.
THE precise...meaning of ONCE a man “IS” Saved, “IS” Gods Spirit “IN” that man and For ever, Gods Spirit WILL be “with” that man. OSAS.
Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(THEM that ARE “sanctified”, ie SET APART, ARE them that ARE SAVED, Because THEY....DID EAT!!) OSAS!!!
CONTINUED;
Preaching MEN who HAVE received their Salvation, can THEN lose their Salvation IS FALSE.
Men who CAN/COULD LOSE “their” Salvation, are men in danger of Losing “their” Salvation BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T choose to “EAT” the word of God.
They may Believe, they are warned to ENDURE, keep Believing to their end!
And Warned they may be enticed, and fall away FROM FAITH, and from Receiving their Salvation...BECAUSE THEY DID NOT REACH OUT AND TAKE IT.
They continue tasting, while wicked men and evil spirits are hot on their trail to tickle their ears with half truths, lies that sounds enticing, tempting, to draw them away from God and His word. (Don’t believe it? Open your ears. Listen to the world power sitters Dictating, FEAR, Death is at every mans door step, and THEY are the solution to SAVING MEN, to SAVING the Whole World, Controlling Everything! And pay attention to their tactics of Silencing Gods Word, and Punishing men who DARE open their mouths and Speak Gods Word.)
** And to address; as some have said....uh, a man can NOT lose his Salvation, until, AFTER he has received his Salvation...FALSE.
Salvation IS ALREADY Provided Given Every man.
Jesus IS Salvation. God Sent and Gave the Whole World Jesus.
Just as God created ADAM, put him in the Garden. AND GAVE Adam the TREE OF LIFE to “EAT” of. Even AFTER ADAM disobeyed God....and EVE reached out an TOOK of the Tree of Good and Evil...(and ate) and ADAM reached out and TOOK of the fruit of Good and EVIL ...(and ate) and God COVERED ADAMS SIN (flesh body) with coats of animal sacrificed blood and skin....
Gen: 3
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Adam DID NOT Take of the Tree of Life...thus ADAM WAS NOT SAVED “THEN”.
BUT WE KNOW, Adam was Saved at his bodily death...because we ARE informed later; Adam was a “son of God”. (Luke 3:38)
HOW, WHY was Adam a “son of God”? Because for the rest of Adams earthly life, he “ENDURED” to Believe IN God....God was WITH Adam, but not IN Adam...UNTIL THE DAY of Adams bodily death.
Every man that is believing in God, God is WITH that man.
...the Warning, the Danger is that man CAN leave God, and God WILL In turn Leave that man.
Every man that is converted in Christ, Gods Spirit is IN that man and Gods Spirit forever “WITH” that man.
The difference between...being WITH and being IN the Spirit of God has been told, shown, explained, repeated numerous times....and STILL men say...uh... all men have to endure to their end, all men continue to SIN, (many adding in they have to try really hard to not sin, keep asking for forgiveness, keep doing works, SO they WILL be Saved....) error, error, error.
SIN is AGAINST GOD. BEING AGAINST God “IS” NOT BELIEVING IN GOD.
ONLY God forgives SIN. AND ONCE a man IS CONVERTED, he can NEVER AGAIN “NOT believe IN God”...Never again “SIN against God”...BECAUSE he has become DEAD to the flesh born of a corrupt seed of men...to BEING Born of the HOLY SEED of God, that can NEVER Perish!. Hello CONVERSION!!
Men also superficially claim, MEN SIN AGAINST MEN...which is false.
Men TRESPASS AGAINST Men. Men steal, lie, cheat, bump into, step on, agree and then break their word...AGAINST MEN. Men are expressly taught for men to forgive men of TRESPASSES!!
So WHY do men “pray to God saying, “I have sinned”, forgive me, I cheated on my spouse” ? Why are they not going to their spouse and confessing their Trespass, and asking their spouse for forgiveness? Why are they asking God to forgive them, when He already forgave them for having had DISBELIEF in Him?
When God gives a man Forgiveness...of SIN, Disbelief in God,...that IS to EFFECT CONVERSION...ONCE.
When Men forgive men ... of Trespasses, that IS for encroaching on a others man person or possessions...
HERE IS THE “IF” caveat.
1 John 1:
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Once a man IS CLEANSED (by the way cleansed IN Jesus’ BLOOD), ALL unrighteousness is removed....and followed by crucifixion with Christ...Gods Works of Conversion, anew man.......and Gods SPIRIT (POWER) “IN” that man KEEPS that man “righteous”....is Believing IN GOD FOREVER.
* WHEN EVER does Scripture teach of becoming a new man...and then, God UNDOING His Works of Conversion...and a man AGAIN becoming the OLD MAN? NEVER!
So why are men CLAIMING to be “CONVERTED”....and SILL Committing SIN?
And STILL repeatedly asking God for forgiveness of what He has ALREADY GIVEN THEM?
The Answer is SIMPLE... They have been taught a LIE. They did NOT Verify what Scripture SAYS, against what their EARS were taught.
THEY are CALLING TRESPASSES Against men....A SIN.
THEY are MAKING themselves FORGIVERS of SIN.
THEY claim MEN sin against them.
THey claim they sin against MEN.
THEY claim they forgive men of sin.
THEY WANT men to forgive them for what they claim is a sin of men against them.
Not once does God say, Men should BELIEVE “IN” MEN.
Not once does Scripture say, it is a SIN unto men to NOT believe in men.
SIN AGAINST GOD, IS Disbelief IN God.
Scripture reveals...VIOLATION “under mosaic law”, of men against men, was a HEBREW/TRIBESMAN mans sin against men...ACCORDING TO THE LAW... And men should forgive men of sinning against them.
ARE Gentiles Hebrews? Jews? Tribesmen UNDER A LAW, that Jesus fulfilled?
NO...SO HOW can ANY GENTILE man, SIN AGAINST ANOTHER MAN?
And by WHAT authority does ANY GENTILE man, have authority TO FORGIVE SIN?
CONTINUED;
Men who CAN/COULD LOSE “their” Salvation, are men in danger of Losing “their” Salvation BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T choose to “EAT” the word of God.
They may Believe, they are warned to ENDURE, keep Believing to their end!
And Warned they may be enticed, and fall away FROM FAITH, and from Receiving their Salvation...BECAUSE THEY DID NOT REACH OUT AND TAKE IT.
They continue tasting, while wicked men and evil spirits are hot on their trail to tickle their ears with half truths, lies that sounds enticing, tempting, to draw them away from God and His word. (Don’t believe it? Open your ears. Listen to the world power sitters Dictating, FEAR, Death is at every mans door step, and THEY are the solution to SAVING MEN, to SAVING the Whole World, Controlling Everything! And pay attention to their tactics of Silencing Gods Word, and Punishing men who DARE open their mouths and Speak Gods Word.)
** And to address; as some have said....uh, a man can NOT lose his Salvation, until, AFTER he has received his Salvation...FALSE.
Salvation IS ALREADY Provided Given Every man.
Jesus IS Salvation. God Sent and Gave the Whole World Jesus.
Just as God created ADAM, put him in the Garden. AND GAVE Adam the TREE OF LIFE to “EAT” of. Even AFTER ADAM disobeyed God....and EVE reached out an TOOK of the Tree of Good and Evil...(and ate) and ADAM reached out and TOOK of the fruit of Good and EVIL ...(and ate) and God COVERED ADAMS SIN (flesh body) with coats of animal sacrificed blood and skin....
Gen: 3
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Adam DID NOT Take of the Tree of Life...thus ADAM WAS NOT SAVED “THEN”.
BUT WE KNOW, Adam was Saved at his bodily death...because we ARE informed later; Adam was a “son of God”. (Luke 3:38)
HOW, WHY was Adam a “son of God”? Because for the rest of Adams earthly life, he “ENDURED” to Believe IN God....God was WITH Adam, but not IN Adam...UNTIL THE DAY of Adams bodily death.
Every man that is believing in God, God is WITH that man.
...the Warning, the Danger is that man CAN leave God, and God WILL In turn Leave that man.
Every man that is converted in Christ, Gods Spirit is IN that man and Gods Spirit forever “WITH” that man.
The difference between...being WITH and being IN the Spirit of God has been told, shown, explained, repeated numerous times....and STILL men say...uh... all men have to endure to their end, all men continue to SIN, (many adding in they have to try really hard to not sin, keep asking for forgiveness, keep doing works, SO they WILL be Saved....) error, error, error.
SIN is AGAINST GOD. BEING AGAINST God “IS” NOT BELIEVING IN GOD.
ONLY God forgives SIN. AND ONCE a man IS CONVERTED, he can NEVER AGAIN “NOT believe IN God”...Never again “SIN against God”...BECAUSE he has become DEAD to the flesh born of a corrupt seed of men...to BEING Born of the HOLY SEED of God, that can NEVER Perish!. Hello CONVERSION!!
Men also superficially claim, MEN SIN AGAINST MEN...which is false.
Men TRESPASS AGAINST Men. Men steal, lie, cheat, bump into, step on, agree and then break their word...AGAINST MEN. Men are expressly taught for men to forgive men of TRESPASSES!!
So WHY do men “pray to God saying, “I have sinned”, forgive me, I cheated on my spouse” ? Why are they not going to their spouse and confessing their Trespass, and asking their spouse for forgiveness? Why are they asking God to forgive them, when He already forgave them for having had DISBELIEF in Him?
When God gives a man Forgiveness...of SIN, Disbelief in God,...that IS to EFFECT CONVERSION...ONCE.
When Men forgive men ... of Trespasses, that IS for encroaching on a others man person or possessions...
HERE IS THE “IF” caveat.
1 John 1:
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Once a man IS CLEANSED (by the way cleansed IN Jesus’ BLOOD), ALL unrighteousness is removed....and followed by crucifixion with Christ...Gods Works of Conversion, anew man.......and Gods SPIRIT (POWER) “IN” that man KEEPS that man “righteous”....is Believing IN GOD FOREVER.
* WHEN EVER does Scripture teach of becoming a new man...and then, God UNDOING His Works of Conversion...and a man AGAIN becoming the OLD MAN? NEVER!
So why are men CLAIMING to be “CONVERTED”....and SILL Committing SIN?
And STILL repeatedly asking God for forgiveness of what He has ALREADY GIVEN THEM?
The Answer is SIMPLE... They have been taught a LIE. They did NOT Verify what Scripture SAYS, against what their EARS were taught.
THEY are CALLING TRESPASSES Against men....A SIN.
THEY are MAKING themselves FORGIVERS of SIN.
THEY claim MEN sin against them.
THey claim they sin against MEN.
THEY claim they forgive men of sin.
THEY WANT men to forgive them for what they claim is a sin of men against them.
Not once does God say, Men should BELIEVE “IN” MEN.
Not once does Scripture say, it is a SIN unto men to NOT believe in men.
SIN AGAINST GOD, IS Disbelief IN God.
Scripture reveals...VIOLATION “under mosaic law”, of men against men, was a HEBREW/TRIBESMAN mans sin against men...ACCORDING TO THE LAW... And men should forgive men of sinning against them.
ARE Gentiles Hebrews? Jews? Tribesmen UNDER A LAW, that Jesus fulfilled?
NO...SO HOW can ANY GENTILE man, SIN AGAINST ANOTHER MAN?
And by WHAT authority does ANY GENTILE man, have authority TO FORGIVE SIN?
CONTINUED;
Jesus taught men ... Jews and Gentiles HOW TO PRAY ... (Because once Salvation (Jesus) was sent and arrived ON EARTH...the fulfillment of the Law was becoming manifested...)
Matt 6:
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread.
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
[13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Note...what is a man asking God to forgive? Sin? No debt. Debt is a unresolved trespass, that one man OWES to another.
Note....what is the man forgiving? Sin? No debt.
Note....what is our daily bread? Gods Word!
Carnal thought is ... debt is money, credit, loans not yet paid.
Spiritual thought is .... trespass not yet resolved, ie; forgiven
Carnal thought is ... bread is baked grain.
Spiritual thought is ... bread is Gods Word.
Be not LIKE the carnal minded man.(ie them)
Matt 6:
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
[8] Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Be specific, Go to the man you have trespassed Against, ask his forgiveness. Give to men forgiveness, that have trespassed Against you....AND ALSO God will forgive your Trespasses Against men.
Matt 6:
[14] For (because) if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
CONTINUED:
Matt 6:
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread.
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
[13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Note...what is a man asking God to forgive? Sin? No debt. Debt is a unresolved trespass, that one man OWES to another.
Note....what is the man forgiving? Sin? No debt.
Note....what is our daily bread? Gods Word!
Carnal thought is ... debt is money, credit, loans not yet paid.
Spiritual thought is .... trespass not yet resolved, ie; forgiven
Carnal thought is ... bread is baked grain.
Spiritual thought is ... bread is Gods Word.
Be not LIKE the carnal minded man.(ie them)
Matt 6:
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
[8] Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Be specific, Go to the man you have trespassed Against, ask his forgiveness. Give to men forgiveness, that have trespassed Against you....AND ALSO God will forgive your Trespasses Against men.
Matt 6:
[14] For (because) if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
CONTINUED:
So...what ABOUT...
Matt 18:
[21] Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
[22] Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
* Note; STAY IN CONTEXT.
Peter was a JEW. Following (ie a Disciple), learning (not yet an Apostle), not yet Converted. Still under the Law, where as Under the Law, violation of the Law WAS accounted as man sinning against man. NOT any man. ie as expressly noted....a BROTHER. Meaning another Jew.
The Lesson is the same...
Men IN Christ, become MADE “brothers”.
The Law did not apply to Gentiles.
The Law does not apply to Jews IN Christ. (BTW not called Christians, but called Messianic Jews, thus noting, speaking of Spiritual things, using the title Christians, Believers....is VAGUE, when “Jesus Himself used the Correct TERM, that separates the SAVED from the UNSAVED...ie “CONVERTED” )
* Peter was still under the Law, when Jesus answered Peter. Jesus answered Peter According to the Law...while also revealing brothers who trespass against one another should also forgive one another repeatedly.
Brothers forgive brothers repeatedly of Trespasses...and UNDER the LAW, repeatedly brothers forgive brothers of sin.
*Men repeatedly Trespass...
EX...say you will have a picnic, it rains, you cancel, your word was not fulfilled, you trespassed. Your car rams into an others. You trespassed. You break an others window with a baseball. You trespassed.
...men do not know ALL things. They give their word, then renege, that is a trespass. Men marry, then cheat, that is a trespass. Men Trespass Against men in a manner of all kinds of things...
* AND that is what Scripture means when it says....don’t pray some repetitive prayer of forgiveness for trespassing against men...name your trespass, be accountable for it, be ashamed, feeling saddened, for what you name, and ask the one you trespassed AGAINST for forgiveness. Know who your brother is and Forgive him as many times as he trespasses against you.
* ONLY God FORGIVES SIN against Him...God ONLY ONCE forgives SIN Against Him. The OLD of “yearly taking a pure animal for altar slaughter, as a mans SIN OFFERING, and “animal blood”, being sufficient for “a years worth of SIN”, has been fulfilled.
* Jesus being sent, being given, his pure blood spilled, ONCE, is the LAST option for receiving PErMANENT forgiveness, and Gods POWER “IN” a man keeping that man “FOREVER forgiven and FOREVER KEPT by the Power of God”.
* A man joining with a woman in marriage, is practice. Divorce is a fail at their practicing. Practice for what? Practice for GIVING one’s WORD/ vow to do what they say, and sticking with it, OR suffering the consequences for failing to keep their word.
* Joining WITH God, also requires ones Word of Agreement. (Ie CONFESSION) God in His Wisdom already know how “WEAK” men are. It is Gods Power that KEEPS a man TRUE TO HIS WORD.....when a man JOINS himself TO GOD....ie IN Christ. There is no “divorce”, leaving God, once a man is Converted IN Christ.....It’s permanent....and why are men are warned ahead of time...
2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
WHAT is this ELECTION a man is being warned to BE SURE?
1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
It is not ONLY God calling, and KNOWING who will choose Him...Men KNOW, after they hear, learn, decide and act (or not).
God has offered ALL men, their option to Freely Choose HIM. And IFY, God search’s their heart to SEE if their “election” IS TRUE....or IF their “confession“ before mens ears; ie lip service, for their own benefit of mens hears to hear and believe they are to be trusted as a brother IN Christ.
Not a big surprise...many men have Confessed God before other men...when their heart absolutely DID NOT BELIEVE! They fooled men. But they do not fool God. Look it up. EVEN Pastors are coming forth revealing they NEVER believed! They brought SHAME upon Christ the Lord Jesus, and corrupted the True Word of God...to their own demise and damnation...and to the ears of men.
ONCE God SAVES a man; that man IS FOREVER CONVERTED, a new man, FREED from SIN and shall NEVER again SIN against God, and shall FOREVER be WITH God and God WITH that man. (1 John 3:9)
THAT IS, the whole basis and meaning of OSAS.
Matt 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
YES saved once and forever IS Biblical.
Yes Forgiven Sin ONCE and forever IS Biblical.
Yes Sin NO MORE IS Biblical.
Yes God IS Just, True, Faithful.
Glory to God,
Taken
Matt 18:
[21] Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
[22] Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
* Note; STAY IN CONTEXT.
Peter was a JEW. Following (ie a Disciple), learning (not yet an Apostle), not yet Converted. Still under the Law, where as Under the Law, violation of the Law WAS accounted as man sinning against man. NOT any man. ie as expressly noted....a BROTHER. Meaning another Jew.
The Lesson is the same...
Men IN Christ, become MADE “brothers”.
The Law did not apply to Gentiles.
The Law does not apply to Jews IN Christ. (BTW not called Christians, but called Messianic Jews, thus noting, speaking of Spiritual things, using the title Christians, Believers....is VAGUE, when “Jesus Himself used the Correct TERM, that separates the SAVED from the UNSAVED...ie “CONVERTED” )
* Peter was still under the Law, when Jesus answered Peter. Jesus answered Peter According to the Law...while also revealing brothers who trespass against one another should also forgive one another repeatedly.
Brothers forgive brothers repeatedly of Trespasses...and UNDER the LAW, repeatedly brothers forgive brothers of sin.
*Men repeatedly Trespass...
EX...say you will have a picnic, it rains, you cancel, your word was not fulfilled, you trespassed. Your car rams into an others. You trespassed. You break an others window with a baseball. You trespassed.
...men do not know ALL things. They give their word, then renege, that is a trespass. Men marry, then cheat, that is a trespass. Men Trespass Against men in a manner of all kinds of things...
* AND that is what Scripture means when it says....don’t pray some repetitive prayer of forgiveness for trespassing against men...name your trespass, be accountable for it, be ashamed, feeling saddened, for what you name, and ask the one you trespassed AGAINST for forgiveness. Know who your brother is and Forgive him as many times as he trespasses against you.
* ONLY God FORGIVES SIN against Him...God ONLY ONCE forgives SIN Against Him. The OLD of “yearly taking a pure animal for altar slaughter, as a mans SIN OFFERING, and “animal blood”, being sufficient for “a years worth of SIN”, has been fulfilled.
* Jesus being sent, being given, his pure blood spilled, ONCE, is the LAST option for receiving PErMANENT forgiveness, and Gods POWER “IN” a man keeping that man “FOREVER forgiven and FOREVER KEPT by the Power of God”.
* A man joining with a woman in marriage, is practice. Divorce is a fail at their practicing. Practice for what? Practice for GIVING one’s WORD/ vow to do what they say, and sticking with it, OR suffering the consequences for failing to keep their word.
* Joining WITH God, also requires ones Word of Agreement. (Ie CONFESSION) God in His Wisdom already know how “WEAK” men are. It is Gods Power that KEEPS a man TRUE TO HIS WORD.....when a man JOINS himself TO GOD....ie IN Christ. There is no “divorce”, leaving God, once a man is Converted IN Christ.....It’s permanent....and why are men are warned ahead of time...
2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
WHAT is this ELECTION a man is being warned to BE SURE?
1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
It is not ONLY God calling, and KNOWING who will choose Him...Men KNOW, after they hear, learn, decide and act (or not).
God has offered ALL men, their option to Freely Choose HIM. And IFY, God search’s their heart to SEE if their “election” IS TRUE....or IF their “confession“ before mens ears; ie lip service, for their own benefit of mens hears to hear and believe they are to be trusted as a brother IN Christ.
Not a big surprise...many men have Confessed God before other men...when their heart absolutely DID NOT BELIEVE! They fooled men. But they do not fool God. Look it up. EVEN Pastors are coming forth revealing they NEVER believed! They brought SHAME upon Christ the Lord Jesus, and corrupted the True Word of God...to their own demise and damnation...and to the ears of men.
ONCE God SAVES a man; that man IS FOREVER CONVERTED, a new man, FREED from SIN and shall NEVER again SIN against God, and shall FOREVER be WITH God and God WITH that man. (1 John 3:9)
THAT IS, the whole basis and meaning of OSAS.
Matt 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
YES saved once and forever IS Biblical.
Yes Forgiven Sin ONCE and forever IS Biblical.
Yes Sin NO MORE IS Biblical.
Yes God IS Just, True, Faithful.
Glory to God,
Taken
ScottA
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So say the scoffers who continue to reject the truth from God and those He has sent. God knows.
ScottA
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Perhaps we are getting somewhere.
The reason I said that you ask too much, is because you ask for a simple answer to what John has set in two different contexts. So, yes, I can answer either, but which one do you refer to? Because you have presented both, but withdraw to the one, asking if it is possible for us to live a sinless life...and the answer in the context that John spoke of, is Yes.
But, shall I leave it at that when we both know there is more, and in fact two different things that he has said for two different reasons making up two different contexts? And for this reason, I have already addressed both.
ScottA
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The most accurate way of "rightly dividing the word of truth", is to divide each passage as to whether it refers to the dead who are born of the flesh and destine to die, or the living who are born of the spirit of God. Which in manifestation, God has done by the portrayals of each of the two different "folds" of His sheep: the Jews and the gentiles...which basic truth is like middle school, for there is also higher learning to follow that basic truth presented by God...which is only fulfilled by the Spirit unto all truth.
ScottA
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ScottA
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JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
So when you swear you don’t sin, you’re free of sin, with God’s spirit I’m you you can do whatever you want and commit no sin?
Yes. I used myself as an example.
When examining the Scriptures closely, often times, the same verse separated by a comma, speaks to two entirely different persons...
With God and Without God.
Now as it has happened in the past, and again on this thread...
(When discussing converted, saved, sin no more, freed from sin...
Comes the ... claim whosoever is born of God...Does Not Sin, Can not Sin...
1 John 3:9 ^
The Response is OFTEN...quoting 1 John 1:8....coupled with the responder CLAIMING (speaking for you), that you are claiming “to HAVE NO SIN”, and that means you are claiming, to be SIN-LeSS.
1 John 1:
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I have never claimed to be sinless, or HAVE NO SIN....DUH...who asks God to forgive their SIN, if they believe they have no sin??
Scripture says God COVERS a mans sin...forgives the sin and remembers it no more....and the man sins NO MORE....
Sin is called DARK, void of Light. God IS Light. Hello. Light overcomes Darkness. You can not see darkness when Light is present. Gods Spirit in a man, over comes the SIN DARKNESS...God can not see it. It is not VOIDNESS of SIN, ie “Have no sin”, ie “sinless”....a converted mans SIN is OVERCOME...forgiven, remembered no more....(by God...but men eh, they like to remember and remind)...and with Gods LIGHT (Spirit)....IN a man, that man can SIN NO MORE!!
Rom 4:
7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Glory to God,
Taken
Perhaps.
Hm. Okay, then maybe I need ask you to define the context, or at least your understanding of it. And then depending on that, I can make good sense of your 'yes.' Grace and peace to you.
Swear has multiple meanings...
* to make a pledge
* to speak something that offends someone
* to cuss
Some words Offend some, and not others...
Such a bigot, cheater, anti-blah blah, hater, and even Scriptural words, liar, thief.
Cuss is broader...And means different things to different people.
Whore, bastard, dung, piss, ignorant, hell...could be considered cussing by some, yet are all Scriptural words.
Curse is more specific...a punishment that God fulfills.
No, Words are NOT a SIN unto me.
Disbelief IN GOD...WAS a SIN unto me...but already forgiven.
Of course I can DO whatever I WANT.
I wanted to give my life crucified with Christ, so by My Heartful truth, I did.
I wanted God to Convert me, so I Confessed my Heartful Belief IN Him to Him, and I Trust his promise is fulfilled.
All day long I do what I want; clean, build, read, tend animals, decide what to eat, decide what to wear, where to go...
You seem to think because a person HAS become Converted, they have this magical DESIRE and pass, to steal, lie and cheat, blah, blah, blah....
There is a couple of little thingy’s that goes along with Being Converted...
I have the “TOOLS”...ie God Spirit in me (power), Gods Truth in me....that is expressly HELPING ME, fulfilled my end of the deal....
Gods Works in me ARE phenomenal....but GOD DOES NOTHING TO CHANGE, make anew....OUR CARNAL MINDS...(which FYI are naturally Against God!)..
THAT IS OUR JOB...to make our carnal minds thoughts, subservient to our new Hearts thoughts....(cuz duh, what is IN OUR NEW HEART?)....Gods Spirit of TRUTH! John 16:13
It becoming the mans job to practice, training HIS carnal mind, to listen to his new heart, being fed by Gods Spirit of Truth, BEFORE what his carnal mind thinks....slips forth in blabbing with his mouth, what his MIND is thinking!
So, CAN I carnal mindedly think something, maybe even say it, and someone is offended, Sure. I might think you ignorant, or maybe a liar, or whatever, and if I say it...is that a sin because you are offended? No. What if what I say to you offends you, BUT YET it is TRUE...is that a Sin? No. Think the Pharisees were offended when Jesus called them hypocrites, dead mans bones? Sure, but so what? It was true.
I discuss government issues, corruption, etc. I think the majority of politicians are corrupt liars, cheats, thieves...so what? Is that a sin? No.
Then the other little thingy...Is...regardless IF Converted or a Believer enduring and waiting to the day of their physical death to become saved or a non-believer
** Whatever comes forth out of a mans mouth....THAT DOES NOT GLORIFY GOD, SHALL BE BURNED.
So all the cussing, offensive and nonsense talk of where to go eat, what to wear, when to cut the grass, what movie to watch, stupid government tactics, blah, blah, blah that DO NOT Glorify God...SHALL ALL BE BURNED!!
Think book burning is a big deal....ha...Trillions of words men have uttered... that have NOT Glorified God, SHALL BE BURNED. Trillions of acts men have committed that have NOT Glorified God, SHALL BE BURNED.
AND? ALL WORDS that have come forth from mens mouths and acts (ie Works) men have done TO Glorify God...SHALL BE REWARDED....with Treasures Kept in Heaven...
AND? The ONE “SERVICE” God MOST Desires for all men...IS that they BECOME “Converted”... called a “Reasonable Service” (you can look it up), that God desired men to do.
WORKS will not SAVE a man. Works that glorify God, will result in rewards.
When you figure out Sin is having Disbelief IN GOD, and only forgiven by God, you MIGHT also figure out, Once He forgives you, it’s a done deal, His works change a man, once and forever. And he will never leave you, nor can you leave Him.
Mark 16:
[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
ScottA
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The point from John's two different statements:Perhaps.
Grace and peace to you.
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
...Is that he is not contradicting himself...and we do not need to argue with each other them as if one statement were correct and the other wrong.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
What seems completely crazy--and not at all Christian-like behavior, is that anyone who quotes John's words, gets an argument and is accused of all manner of heresy. Alternatively, you all ought to be asking how we who have reconciled these two statements have done it. Which we have tried to answer even against the arguments and accusations. And here we are.
But, since you asked, I will try again:
John, an apostle, fully capable of speaking to matters of the flesh and sin, did so in 1 John 1:8, and at a different time, also fully capable, spoke rather of the Spirit (which is God's spirit) in 1 John 3:9, in Whom there is no sin.
Which is to say, he spoke of that which is not saved, and also that which is saved--the one resulting in death, and the other life.
The two different contexts then, are that of the flesh and that of the Spirit, which are contrary to each other.
Which is to say, he spoke of that which is not saved, and also that which is saved--the one resulting in death, and the other life.
The two different contexts then, are that of the flesh and that of the Spirit, which are contrary to each other.
So...If you ask if one who appears to sin if he is without sin, if you are assuming that you are speaking to the one who sins, you know the answer already. But if you intend to accuse or assume that same person which you only see outwardly is a liar and is not saved or continues to sin after they are saved--you violate every word of God to do so by putting all your trust in what is seen instead of what is unseen--which is the Spirit of God. Such a position is not only against that one who may have been left alive and remaining by God, but is against the Spirit of God--against God.
The error in this whole issue then, falls to those who look only to the flesh...a behavior only produced by the flesh. According to Jesus, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6
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So, Scott, you are saying ~ much like Paul ~ that if you sin, it is no longer you who does it, but the sin that dwells within you. But, outwardly speaking, you still sin. Thus, you are striving ~ again, much like Paul ~ to put off the old man and put on the new. If you can say yes to that ~ and I think you are, long-winded though it may be (sorry; just poking a little fun at you ) ~ then we're good.
Grace and peace to you.
) ~ then we're good. Grace and peace to you.
@ScottA
@PinSeeker
Listening, Reading, Comparing, Declaring, Claiming, Accusing...
IN CONTEXT.
Who is the Speaker. Who is the Speaker Addressing. Who is the Listener. What has the Speaker DONE, and the Result?
What has the Listener DONE, and the Result?
Rom 7:
Paul is speaking to his Brethren, (Who KNOW the law.)
Who is Paul’s Brethren?
...1) Gentiles, (fathers citizenship), but know NOT the (mosaic) law.
...2) Jews, (mothers citizenship), but who KNOW the (mosaic) law.
* IN CONTEXT - Paul is speaking to Jewish People UNDER the law, Introducing something GREATER than the LAW itself.
Remembering;
WHY the Lord chose Saul/Paul.
* Saul a Jew, steeped IN, expert IN, the Law, a Pharisee.
* Paul a Gentile, also knowing the ways of a Gentile.
The TIME has arrived to make WAY for Gentiles to come into Knowledge of the Jewish Messiah and Jewish God.
* HOW Hard a TASK...
* Introducing Jews to their Messiah having arrived, and difficult concept of teaching death while still alive is required,
* Introducing Gentiles to the Jews Messiah having arrived, and difficult concept of teaching death while still alive is required....A CONCEPT Saul Himself, often using himself as an example of revealing the difficultly and sometimes frustrating concept of struggling with death while still alive in his flesh.
Acts: 9:
[5] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
[7] And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
[8] And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
[9] And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
[10] And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
[11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
[12] And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
[13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
[14] And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
** Here (Rom 7) Paul is expressly addressing the children of Israel in Rome.
** Gentiles are NOT Delivered FROM the Law. Gentiles are NOT Dead to the Law. Gentiles were NOT included IN the Law.
Continued:
@PinSeeker
Listening, Reading, Comparing, Declaring, Claiming, Accusing...
IN CONTEXT.
Who is the Speaker. Who is the Speaker Addressing. Who is the Listener. What has the Speaker DONE, and the Result?
What has the Listener DONE, and the Result?
Rom 7:
Paul is speaking to his Brethren, (Who KNOW the law.)
Who is Paul’s Brethren?
...1) Gentiles, (fathers citizenship), but know NOT the (mosaic) law.
...2) Jews, (mothers citizenship), but who KNOW the (mosaic) law.
* IN CONTEXT - Paul is speaking to Jewish People UNDER the law, Introducing something GREATER than the LAW itself.
Remembering;
WHY the Lord chose Saul/Paul.
* Saul a Jew, steeped IN, expert IN, the Law, a Pharisee.
* Paul a Gentile, also knowing the ways of a Gentile.
The TIME has arrived to make WAY for Gentiles to come into Knowledge of the Jewish Messiah and Jewish God.
* HOW Hard a TASK...
* Introducing Jews to their Messiah having arrived, and difficult concept of teaching death while still alive is required,
* Introducing Gentiles to the Jews Messiah having arrived, and difficult concept of teaching death while still alive is required....A CONCEPT Saul Himself, often using himself as an example of revealing the difficultly and sometimes frustrating concept of struggling with death while still alive in his flesh.
Acts: 9:
[5] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
[7] And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
[8] And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
[9] And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
[10] And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
[11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
[12] And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
[13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
[14] And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
** Here (Rom 7) Paul is expressly addressing the children of Israel in Rome.
** Gentiles are NOT Delivered FROM the Law. Gentiles are NOT Dead to the Law. Gentiles were NOT included IN the Law.
Continued:
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