Eternal Security

[gadar perets]

The Sabbath is on the 7th day, but I have faith in Christ EVERYDAY.

I have faith in Messiah EVERYDAY as well. My faith is evident by my works of obedience to YHWH's commandments as well as whatever other good works I do. You probably do good works as well, but you refuse to do the work of obedience to the commandments.

 

[gadar perets]

Because you don't have evidence of the Spirit of God in you, and don't know any better

You are not in a position to make such a judgment. I won't report you this time either.

 

[gadar perets]

I have no problem with you keeping the Sabbath. If you believe that is what the Lord wants you to do, fine. That is between you and Him. I have a problem with you wanting to place other believers under Law.

Stranger

And I do have a problem with you not keeping the Sabbath. If YHWH wants me to keep the Sabbath, then He wants all His children to keep it. I am my brother's keeper and will do what I can to bring them light and blessings. If you don't want them, so be it. I will try to bless others with the light that I have.

 

[Nancy]

You're such a nice person Nancy...
And very smart...

• 

Ty

 

[Stranger]

Why did he also say we are dead to sin? Obviously he was referring to the heinous acts he did while yet a sinner. He was still feeling the shame of those acts, not that he was still doing them.

"of whom I am chief" Not "of whom I was chief"

Our being dead to sin doesn't mean we are not still sinners. We are dead to sin through the work of Jesus Christ, not because we cease to sin.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

And I do have a problem with you not keeping the Sabbath. If YHWH wants me to keep the Sabbath, then He wants all His children to keep it. I am my brother's keeper and will do what I can to bring them light and blessings. If you don't want them, so be it. I will try to bless others with the light that I have.

But you're not blessing others by putting them under Law. You simply bring them under condemnation. You bring them under a curse.

Stranger

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"of whom I am chief" Not "of whom I was chief"

Stranger

You are reading it with a western mindset. I think it was you I was showing Semitic writing styles. First person, present tense is another one. Take, for example, Romans 7:9 "I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died." Paul is talking about mankind, though uses himself in first person. The law came to Moses, and Paul hadn't even been born yet, though this is written as in his own lifetime.

Another one is 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10. John includes himself, when it is his whole congregation of mixed believers with the Gnostics he is referring to.

Our being dead to sin doesn't mean we are not still sinners. We are dead to sin through the work of Jesus Christ, not because we cease to sin.

Exactly, it is all Jesus. But what he does is kills the sin nature. That is what being born-again is all about, becoming a new creature in Christ. One of the evidences is having the mind of Christ. Our desires are His desires. We love what He loves, and we hate what He hates. It is Him that puts these new desires in us to follow. A person who commits lawlessness (a willful sin) loves darkness, and has quenched the Spirit.

 

[Stranger]

You are reading it with a western mindset. I think it was you I was showing Semitic writing styles. First person, present tense is another one. Take, for example, Romans 7:9 "I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died." Paul is talking about mankind, though uses himself in first person. The law came to Moses, and Paul hadn't even been born yet, though this is written as in his own lifetime.

Another one is 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10. John includes himself, when it is his whole congregation of mixed believers with the Gnostics he is referring to.



Exactly, it is all Jesus. But what he does is kills the sin nature. That is what being born-again is all about, becoming a new creature in Christ. One of the evidences is having the mind of Christ. Our desires are His desires. We love what He loves, and we hate what He hates. It is Him that puts these new desires in us to follow. A person who commits lawlessness (a willful sin) loves darkness, and has quenched the Spirit.

No, Paul is talking about Paul when he says 'I'.

No, you still have a sin nature. But now, as a believer, your spirit has been born-again. You will have this till you lay this body down in death. (Rom. 7:22-25).

Stranger

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, Paul is talking about Paul when he says 'I'.

No, you still have a sin nature. But now, as a believer, your spirit has been born-again. You will have this till you lay this body down in death. (Rom. 7:22-25).

Stranger

I just explained why Paul said "I." If you don't want to learn anything outside of your small box of learning, so be it. It is your opportunity to lose if you choose to. At least my heart was in the right place to teach you.

By the way, not being in the flesh but in the Spirit, is not after we die.

 

[Stranger]

I just explained why Paul said "I." If you don't want to learn anything outside of your small box of learning, so be it. It is your opportunity to lose if you choose to. At least my heart was in the right place to teach you.

By the way, not being in the flesh but in the Spirit, is not after we die.

I know, but I reject your explanation.

That is correct. Which is my point concerning the sin nature. We still have it.

Stranger

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 8
just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Christ) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He (Christ) says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (YHWH),
When I (Christ) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers

BobRyan said: ↑
You asked whether "this particular scripture" might be just for Jews - just for those under the Law, just for Old Covenant condemnation of the Law, and not at all meant for New Covenant Christians, did I get that right?

"this particular scripture" Not sure I mentioned any specific script.

That's interesting all by itself...

, the N.C. began at Jesus death

The New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33 that Christ mentions and that is quoted in Hebrews 8... is the One Gospel of both NT and OT.

Gal 1:6-9 --> only one Gospel... not two.

So then "new Covenant" --"THIS IS the New Covenant which I will make with the house of Israel.. I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Hebrews 8.

,
Jesus being our High Priest now,under the N.C. there is no longer need for law

I assume that is just creative writing... why not use the actual text of the New Covenant instead??

Romans 8:4-11 says the lost "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"
Romans 3:19-21 says the Law of God still exists and condemns the entire world to this very day "so that every mouth may be closed and ALL the world accountable to God" -- thus all "need" a Savior which is why we even have the Gospel in the first place.
James 2 quotes from what you are calling the non-existant law ... or is it "Law not needed"?

as He fulfilled it-because a mere human being could never do it. Romans 6:14, 15: “Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” His desires, and His commandments are now etched on the lining of our hearts (Christians)

A bit of an oxymoron to claim that what is written on heart and mind 'does not exist'.

Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"
Eph 6:2 the first commandment with a promise in that still-valid unit of ten is "Honor your father and mother" yes that is NT
1 Cor 7:19 "What matters is KEEPING the commandments of GOD" - even in theNT
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" - even after the cross
1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT.



Romans 3:19 "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God"

Thus defining the 'term' -- "under the Law" as being "under the condemnation of the still-existing Law"

 

[bbyrd009]

I am my brother's keeper

hmm, you think? where do ppl get this idea?

the reply to "am i my brother's keeper?" is not "yes."

 

[BobRyan]

This is one of the worst cases I have ever seen of reading the Son into a text. Verses 5 & 7-10 are all referring to YHWH (Yeshua's Father - Psalm 2:7).

Both the Father and the Son are called YHWH in the OT not just in the NT case of Hebrews 8 -- the Father is not the "High Priest" of Hebrews 8. See the details in the chapter


Hebrews 8
just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Christ) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He (Christ) says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (YHWH),
When I (Christ) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
For they did not continue in My (Christ's) covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord (Christ).
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Many texts in the NT where the OT YHWH is applied to Christ

And here is why

It was Christ at Sinai according to Hebrews 8.

It was Christ "every day" in the wilderness wanderings of Israel.

1 Cor 10
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the Rock was Christ

So that is "Christ" saying "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 according to Hebrews 8.

Please list those verses.

You are looking at a great example of one.

Note "the details"

Hebrews 8
just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Christ) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He (Christ) says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (YHWH),
When I (Christ) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
For they did not continue in My (Christ's) covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord (Christ).
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

In that example we see "consistency" -- but some would point out that by inserting whatever they wish to munge the text into "not Christ speaking" they can get to their preferred text. How "instructive"

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Which is my point concerning the sin nature. We still have it.

ROFL You've just made the opposite point.

 

[Jun2u]

To all,

Why, do you still entertain @gadar perets and those who are in agreement with his false doctrines? Do all not realize that you are participating in their evil deeds?

I’ve had dealings with @gadar concerning the Sabbath and the Deity of Christ in the past to no avail. I stopped communicating with him because of the ominous warning found in 2 John 1:9-11, which reads:
9) Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10) If there come any unto you, and bring NOT this doctrine , receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11) For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

And, Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, brings home this point in Galatians 1:8-12:

8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ
11) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

You see, we cannot understand the Gospel unless the Holy Spirit opens our spiritual eyes.

Words in bold and parenthesis for emphasis.

To God Be The Glory

 

[gadar perets]

But you're not blessing others by putting them under Law. You simply bring them under condemnation. You bring them under a curse.

Stranger

"Under the law" means under its condemnation. No one in Messiah Yeshua comes under condemnation or a curse. I don't know why you would say such a thing except to scare people into not keeping the Sabbath Day holy. Sabbath keepers are NOT under the law any more than Sunday keepers who do not steal or commit adultery. You can't seem to believe that the Sabbath can be obeyed out of love for our Father without seeking to be justified or saved by it.

 

[gadar perets]

hmm, you think? where do ppl get this idea?

the reply to "am i my brother's keeper?" is not "yes."

Is the reply "no"? If so, why?

 

[gadar perets]

Both the Father and the Son are called YHWH in the OT not just in the NT case of Hebrews 8 -- the Father is not the "High Priest" of Hebrews 8. See the details in the chapter


Hebrews 8
just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Christ) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He (Christ) says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (YHWH),
When I (Christ) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
For they did not continue in My (Christ's) covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord (Christ).
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Many texts in the NT where the OT YHWH is applied to Christ

And here is why

It was Christ at Sinai according to Hebrews 8.

It was Christ "every day" in the wilderness wanderings of Israel.

1 Cor 10
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the Rock was Christ

So that is "Christ" saying "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 according to Hebrews 8.



You are looking at a great example of one.

Note "the details"

Hebrews 8
just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He (Christ) says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He (Christ) says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (YHWH),
When I (Christ) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
For they did not continue in My (Christ's) covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord (Christ).
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

In that example we see "consistency" -- but some would point out that by inserting whatever they wish to munge the text into "not Christ speaking" they can get to their preferred text. How "instructive"

You did not supply any verses stating Yeshua is YHWH except Hebrews 8 where you read him into the text.

 

[gadar perets]

To all,

Why, do you still entertain @gadar perets and those who are in agreement with his false doctrines? Do all not realize that you are participating in their evil deeds?

I’ve had dealings with @gadar concerning the Sabbath and the Deity of Christ in the past to no avail. I stopped communicating with him because of the ominous warning found in 2 John 1:9-11, which reads:
9) Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10) If there come any unto you, and bring NOT this doctrine , receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11) For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

You forgot to include verse 7;

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Yeshua Messiah is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.​

I confess that Yeshua Messiah has come in the flesh. I also believe he is the Son of God (Son of YHWH) and the Messiah. I have also received him as my Lord and Saviour. I hold to all the teachings of Messiah and the teachings about Messiah found in Scripture. I do not hold to your unscriptural teachings about Messiah.

And, Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, brings home this point in Galatians 1:8-12:

8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ
11) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

I believe and teach the Gospel that the apostles taught as summed up in John 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:3-4. I reject the Christian "gospel" of John 3:16 which they understand as, "For God so loved the world that He sent Himself." I prefer to believe that God sent His Son.

If you choose to falsely accuse a servant of Yeshua, then you can deal with him come judgment day.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You forgot to include verse 7;

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Yeshua Messiah is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
I confess that Yeshua Messiah has come in the flesh. I also believe he is the Son of God (Son of YHWH) and the Messiah. I have also received him as my Lord and Saviour. I hold to all the teachings of Messiah and the teachings about Messiah found in Scripture. I do not hold to your unscriptural teachings about Messiah.

Yes, verse 7 makes it clear John is talking about Gnostics, not Messianics. Keeping the Sabbath does not condemn anyone. But neither does keeping everyday unto Jesus alike condemns anyone. Romans 14:5-6