Eternal Security

[bbyrd009]

Gaining deeper understanding require study, prayer, etc.

Just like the things we do in life. You have to grow in knowledge, experience and understanding.

Nothing in the bible is hidden from us. We just lack skill and understanding to know what it means.

we are raised to reason logically, as was already taking over the known world, Plato and all that, whereas Scripture was written dialectically, only this is well hidden bc it is not in the same style as Tao
imo

 

[Heart2Soul]

Gaining deeper understanding require study, prayer, etc.

Just like the things we do in life. You have to grow in knowledge, experience and understanding.

Nothing in the bible is hidden from us. We just lack skill and understanding to know what it means.

Daniel 12:4
Michael's Deliverance and the End Times
…3Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.”

Daniel 2:22
"It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, And the light dwells with Him.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Daniel 12:9
He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.


Mark 13:32
"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.



There are many more scriptures.

Revelation 5:3
And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.


Revelation 10:4
When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them."


Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

 

[CoreIssue]

Daniel 12:4
Michael's Deliverance and the End Times
…3Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.”

Daniel 2:22
"It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, And the light dwells with Him.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Daniel 12:9
He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.


Mark 13:32
"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.



There are many more scriptures.

Revelation 5:3
And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.


Revelation 10:4
When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them."


Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

You posted verses where things were hidden from all of humanity. The subject we were talking about was hidden things being revealed to the select few. Very different and very Gnostic.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You posted verses where things were hidden from all of humanity. The subject we were talking about was hidden things being revealed to the select few. Very different and very Gnostic.

You cannot provoke me to anger....I have pity and compassion on you.
You are His child to deal with. Some water, some plant, but it is God who gives the increase. May the Lord bless you as you grow in His Truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

You cannot provoke me to anger....I have pity and compassion on you.
You are His child to deal with. Some water, some plant, but it is God who gives the increase. May the Lord bless you as you grow in His Truth.

I'm not trying to provoke you to anger. Just to think.

 

[justbyfaith]

What loophole? None there.

It is talking about coming to God, not staying or leaving.

As well, until the baptism of the holy spirit, they could leave God.

Right, there is no real loophole in John 10:27-30 because Jeremiah 32:38-40 addresses it and deals with it. The loophole in question being that while you cannot be plucked out of Jesus' hand, you could leave His hand of your own accord...Jeremiah 32:38-40 addresses this and shows that the fear of the LORD will keep God's children from leaving Him of their own accord.

However, I AM happy to hear that you understand that God FOREKNEW who would be saved and He did not PREDESTINE some to be saved.

There are specific verses in the Bible that speak of predestination and election...I suggest you educate yourself on what they are and what they mean.

How anyone can believe God predestines someone to Hell is inconceivable to me.

I't inconceivable to me too...and yet it is spoken of in scripture (Jude 1:3-4 (kjv)).

 

[GodsGrace]

There are specific verses in the Bible that speak of predestination and election...I suggest you educate yourself on what they are and what they mean.

Predestination has nothing to do with salvation.
Election is concerning how God revealed Himself through the Hebrew nation.

Neither one has anything to do with God deciding who is saved and who is not.
He leaves that up to us to decide --- Jesus stands at the door and knocks, it's up to us to open the door - He doesn't force it open.
Revelation 3:20
John 3:16

Maybe YOU should educate yourself??
Especially on Romans 9, 10 and 11.

 

[Enoch111]

Predestination has nothing to do with salvation.

Absolutely correct. Even the words connected with predestination make this crystal clear: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)

What this verse tells us that in His absolute foreknowledge, God predestined those who would be justified to ultimately resemble Christ perfectly ("the image of His Son"). And justification is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)

God already sees those who have been (or will be) justified as being glorified. And being glorified means being fully transformed into the likeness of Christ (perfected).

 

[GodsGrace]

Absolutely correct. Even the words connected with predestination make this crystal clear: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)

What this verse tells us that in His absolute foreknowledge, God predestined those who would be justified to ultimately resemble Christ perfectly ("the image of His Son"). And justification is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)

God already sees those who have been (or will be) justified as being glorified. And being glorified means being fully transformed into the likeness of Christ (perfected).

Glad you explained it.
Sometimes I tire of explaining it....

 

[justbyfaith]

Predestination has nothing to do with salvation.
Election is concerning how God revealed Himself through the Hebrew nation.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 is written to a Gentile church.

According to Ephesians 1:5 we are predestinated unto adoption as children...and personally I think that this is speaking of salvation; for impaho to be adopted into the family of God is equal to salvation. In the next verse "accepted in the Beloved". These are terms that apply to salvation impaho.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Thessalonians 1:4 is written to a Gentile church.

According to Ephesians 1:5 we are predestinated unto adoption as children...and personally I think that this is speaking of salvation; for impaho to be adopted into the family of God is equal to salvation. In the next verse "accepted in the Beloved". These are terms that apply to salvation impaho.

Sorry J, I didn't explain myself properly.
Predestination has to do with salvation, but not WHO gets saved, but rather HOW we're saved.

For instance in the verse you posted:
1 Thessalonians 1:4
4knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;
5for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.
6You also became imitators of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much tribulation with the joy of the Holy Spirit,

4 God chooses us based upon the conditions He has set.
John 3.16

5 The gospel was preached and was accepted.
1 Corinthians 15:12

6 They RECEIVED the word.


Ephesians 1:5
5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

It can be easily noticed that God did not predestine us to salvation, but He predestined those of us who would be saved to be adopted as Sons THROUGH JESUS CHRIST...according to the kind intention of God.

It is not the WHO of salvation, but what would happen after the person comes to salvation...the HOW...being adopted as Sons through Christ.

 

[gadar perets]

Arianism, in Christianity, the Christological(concerning the doctrine of Christ) position that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God. It was proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius ...

This is a good example of how deceptive these types of info sources are. Arius did not propose that Yeshua was created. Paul was inspired to write that to the Colossians long before Arius was born.

Colossians 1:15 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
​

Of all of YHWH's created creatures, the Son was the firstborn from the dead unto eternal life.

Maybe you like Polycarp better? Or maybe none of them since they don't agree with you?


Polycarp (AD 69–155) was the bishop at the church in Smyrna. Irenaeus tells us Polycarp was a disciple of John the Apostle. In his Letter to the Philippians he says,

Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.[1]

It is interesting that Polycarp wrote in Greek, but we no longer have the chapter which contains this quote in Greek. Instead, we have it in Latin. The following trnslation is found here;

² But may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ Himself, who is the Son of God, and our everlasting High Priest, build you up in faith and truth, and in all meekness, gentleness, patience, longsuffering, forbearance, and purity; and may He bestow on you a lot and portion among His saints, and on us with you, and on all who are under heaven, who shall believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and in His Father, who “raised Him from the dead.
​

If the Greek had "theos" in it, it would be the same as Thomas' exclamation in John's gospel, "my Lord and my [theos]". Not a problem since "theos" is used of beings other the "God".

 

[justbyfaith]

It can be easily noticed that God did not predestine us to salvation, but He predestined those of us who would be saved to be adopted as sons <fify> THROUGH JESUS CHRIST...according to the kind intention of God.

If you can show how someone who is adopted as a son through Jesus Christ is not saved, then you will have made your point quite nicely.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is a good example of how deceptive these types of info sources are. Arius did not propose that Yeshua was created. Paul was inspired to write that to the Colossians long before Arius was born.

Colossians 1:15 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Of all of YHWH's created creatures, the Son was the firstborn from the dead unto eternal life.

That word "firstborn" is the word that we get the English word "prototype" from in the Greek.

In Jeremiah God says that Ephraim is his firstborn.

And obviously Ephraim was not the first creation of God.

Try again.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not a problem since "theos" is used of beings other the "God".

Now you are being ridiculous; trying to say that God doesn't mean God in order to defend your position.

I guess that when someone's position is faulty, they will go to the point of being odious in trying to defend their position; for pride will not allow them to admit defeat.

 

[gadar perets]

That word "firstborn" is the word that we get the English word "prototype" from in the Greek.

In Jeremiah God says that Ephraim is his firstborn.

And obviously Ephraim was not the first creation of God.

Try again.

The key word in Colossians 1:15 is "creature" as far as my point is concerned. Yeshua is a "creature" (a created being). Try again.

 

[gadar perets]

Now you are being ridiculous; trying to say that God doesn't mean God in order to defend your position.

I guess that when someone's position is faulty, they will go to the point of being odious in trying to defend their position; for pride will not allow them to admit defeat.

Does the word "elohim" always mean "God"? NO. Neither does the word "theos". Try learning some Hebrew and Greek rather than accusing me of being prideful.

 

[CoreIssue]

The key word in Colossians 1:15 is "creature" as far as my point is concerned. Yeshua is a "creature" (a created being). Try again.

Good old KJV strikes again.


Colossians 1:15 New International Version (NIV)
The Supremacy of the Son of God
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 2937 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ktivsiß from (2936)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Ktisis 3:1000,481
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ktis'-is Noun Feminine
Definition

1. the act of founding, establishing, building etc
   1. the act of creating, creation
   2. creation i.e. thing created
      1. of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation 1b
   3. anything created 1b
   4. after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted from idolatry to Judaism was called) 1b
   5. the sum or aggregate of things created
   6. institution, ordinance

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This is a good example of how deceptive these types of info sources are. Arius did not propose that Yeshua was created. Paul was inspired to write that to the Colossians long before Arius was born.

Colossians 1:15 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
​

Of all of YHWH's created creatures, the Son was the firstborn from the dead unto eternal life.


It is interesting that Polycarp wrote in Greek, but we no longer have the chapter which contains this quote in Greek. Instead, we have it in Latin. The following trnslation is found here;

² But may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ Himself, who is the Son of God, and our everlasting High Priest, build you up in faith and truth, and in all meekness, gentleness, patience, longsuffering, forbearance, and purity; and may He bestow on you a lot and portion among His saints, and on us with you, and on all who are under heaven, who shall believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and in His Father, who “raised Him from the dead.
​

If the Greek had "theos" in it, it would be the same as Thomas' exclamation in John's gospel, "my Lord and my [theos]". Not a problem since "theos" is used of beings other the "God".

Sir you are not a saved Christian.
You still have a ways to go.
Only Jesus can save us and only God can can save.
Add them up and what do you got?
Two Gods?
Try again.

 

[GodsGrace]

​

If you can show how someone who is adopted as a son through Jesus Christ is not saved, then you will have made your point quite nicely.

WHO said they are not saved???

What I said is that God predestined that WHEN we became saved we would be as Sons adopted through Jesus.

This does not speak about WHO will be saved.