Everyone is in on the Action

[Mantis]

One of the most common verses the pre-rapture people quote is "Come up here," from Rev. 4:1. They claim it could refer to the entire church. It's obvious from the context, it referred to John only, and in Rev. 11:12, to the two witnesses:

Proof #6: “Come up here.” (Revelation 4:1)

A voice called for the apostle John to “Come up here,” and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church. The words “Come up here” are spoken to the two witnesses who are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, who are resurrected and ascend into heaven (Rev. 11:12). Therefore, the phrase “Come up here” could mean the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1. The word “church” is mentioned 22 times in Rev. 1-3, but is not mentioned again until Rev. 22:17.

16 Proofs of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture - Rapture Forums

I have never heard that one before. Interesting!

 

[Brakelite]

I am simply saying for the prophesies that are happening now or about to happen that God told me to keep my eyes on Israel...He also told me not to worry about what I see or hear just keep my eyes on Him and to fear not.

I don't doubt Israel will be playing a significant role in the last days. As will every other nation on the planet. But prophecy, and understanding and recognizing the major players in the unfolding of Revelation, have already been revealed through the symbolism and time clues and criteria that apply to them in scripture... Two entities. Both global. Babylon and Jerusalem. Not the localized nations or cities, but the spiritual final and global counterparts... The church, and the dragon's earthly vehicle for counterfeiting the church and persecuting the true.
KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ .

The seed of the woman is Christ. The remnant of Christ is His church. They shall be hated of all nations for His name sake. One of those nations will be Israel. But the prime nation for bringing to fulfillment the details of prophecy is the United States.

Do you see what is taking place here? The Catholic Church, through it's many agents, particularly the Jesuits, has great influence throughout the world of politics and finance, and what we see taking place is the very real potential for as global inquisition. Even recently PayPal cancelled the accounts of those that disagreed with the political beliefs of the organization. Imagine how much more danger there is of that taking place when the world turns to digital Currency. Do you see how global the last days events are, and the principle players being global entities?
I am not going to decry your personal experience. For me however, I would prefer to trust in the written word.

 

[Enoch111]

I have never heard that one before. Interesting!

Using that verse is a bit of a stretch. But John 14:1-3 is plain as day. You can either believe it or disbelieve it. But the meaning is crystal clear. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" can only mean the Rapture.

 

[David Boyer]

Using that verse is a bit of a stretch. But John 14:1-3 is plain as day. You can either believe it or disbelieve it. But the meaning is crystal clear. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" can only mean the Rapture.

Right... but the timing is the question.
Pre-trib... where is that verse.

 

[Brakelite]

Using that verse is a bit of a stretch. But John 14:1-3 is plain as day. You can either believe it or disbelieve it. But the meaning is crystal clear. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" can only mean the Rapture.

I agree. But that term 'rapture' could be the second coming when
KJV 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[covenantee]

You are not serious....how does this Scripture apply to the topic of the temple?

Jesus must have been serious. He responded to "them" and "you".

Who were they?

 

[Truth7t7]

But the meaning is crystal clear. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" can only mean the Rapture.

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, the verse you presents represents the "Second Coming"

 

[Heart2Soul]

Do you see what is taking place here? The Catholic Church, through it's many agents, particularly the Jesuits, has great influence throughout the world of politics and finance, and what we see taking place is the very real potential for as global inquisition. Even recently PayPal cancelled the accounts of those that disagreed with the political beliefs of the organization. Imagine how much more danger there is of that taking place when the world turns to digital Currency. Do you see how global the last days events are, and the principle players being global entities?

Yes I see what is taking place...everything is coming together at a rapid pace.

I am not going to decry your personal experience. For me however, I would prefer to trust in the written word.

I agree that we must study and know what is written.
I first joined this discussion by adding what is also happening in Israel which coincides with what you posted... And then get responses such as "I look to Jesus, I trust what it says in the Word...etc" yet the articles you shared are current world events and that somehow is ok but not what I have shared....double standard.
Think I will just move on to another topic.
Have a blessed day.

 

[farouk]

Yes I see what is taking place...everything is coming together at a rapid pace.

I agree that we must study and know what is written.
I first joined this discussion by adding what is also happening in Israel which coincides with what you posted... And then get responses such as "I look to Jesus, I trust what it says in the Word...etc" yet the articles you shared are current world events and that somehow is ok but not what I have shared....double standard.
Think I will just move on to another topic.
Have a blessed day.

@Heart2Soul I think it's really important for believers to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2) rather than fall back into keeping looking unto antichrist, so to speak........

 

[Heart2Soul]

Jesus must have been serious. He responded to "them" and "you".

Who were they?

This is what you said....Jesus was speaking to Peter, James, John, and Andrew, who were His audience in the Olivet discourse (Mark 13:3). They were the "you" and "ye" in the verses.

Now quit trolling me or I will report and take appropriate action.

 

[Enoch111]

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, the verse you presents represents the "Second Coming"

Really? That remark shows that you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA about the Second Coming. Even Enoch the 7th from Adam had a better grasp of this event.

 

[covenantee]

This is what you said....Jesus was speaking to Peter, James, John, and Andrew, who were His audience in the Olivet discourse (Mark 13:3). They were the "you" and "ye" in the verses.

Now quit trolling me or I will report and take appropriate action.

Glad you agree that Jesus was speaking to His disciples.

 

[farouk]

The Tabernacle was built because God instructed Moses to build it and they were to carry it with them until they reached the promise land. Then King Solomon was instructed by God to build the Holy Temple as a permanent structure because they had reached their destination.

@Heart2Soul Indeed, this is the order of what happened. Hebrews is very helpful to show how it all pointed forward to Christ and His finished work.

 

[Truth7t7]

Really? That remark shows that you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA about the Second Coming. Even Enoch the 7th from Adam had a better grasp of this event.

Thanks for the response, John 14:1-3 is depicting nothing more than the second coming, and the church being taken to the eternal kingdom in the fathers house

Dispensationalism does nothing more than take the "second coming" in many instances and it falsely claims it's a pre-trib rapture with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below in post #135 being just one prime example, the nut shell game, the Ole bait and switch, is there a rabbit in that hat, smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree. But that term 'rapture' could be the second coming when
KJV 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Brakelite]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Okay, I agree with you. No need to get angry.

 

[Keraz]

Using that verse is a bit of a stretch. But John 14:1-3 is plain as day. You can either believe it or disbelieve it. But the meaning is crystal clear. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" can only mean the Rapture.

I find it quite astounding that people believe John 14:1-3 prophesies a rapture to heaven.
What does I will came again mean if not the Return of Jesus?
He Returns and sends His angels to gather those Christians who remain, 1 Thess 4:17, Matthew 24:31, to where He is; in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4

The whole 'rapture' theory is a crock and cannot happen.

 

[Enoch111]

What does I will came again mean if not the Return of Jesus?

In this passage did Jesus say "I will come again and receive you [my people] unto myself" or did He say "I will come again and bring divine judgment upon the world" (which is integral to the Second Coming)? Do you see that you did not even stop to carefully consider exactly what Christ said in John 14:1-3?

 

[David Boyer]

In this passage did Jesus say "I will come again and receive you [my people] unto myself" or did He say "I will come again and bring divine judgment upon the world" (which is integral to the Second Coming)? Do you see that you did not even stop to carefully consider exactly what Christ said in John 14:1-3?

Gotta agree with @Keraz on this one.

 

[Keraz]

In this passage did Jesus say "I will come again and receive you [my people] unto myself" or did He say "I will come again and bring divine judgment upon the world" (which is integral to the Second Coming)? Do you see that you did not even stop to carefully consider exactly what Christ said in John 14:1-3?

None of the three main prophesies about the glorious Return of Jesus, say He will Judge the world then, Zechariah 14:4, Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11 In their context.
It really does not take much careful consideration to throw the 'rapture to heaven; theory, into the dustbin.
We have tasks to do here, skiving off is not an option.