Evidence that only the sins prior to conversion are forgiven

[John Zain]

[SIZE=10pt]Jesus’ precious blood cleanses ONLY those sins committed BEFORE being born-again![/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]God’s new covenant righteousness – justified by grace through faith[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Romans 3 (NKJV):[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets (i.e. the OT), [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For there is no difference; [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]God had passed over the sins that were previously committed[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]KJV … the remission of sins that are past[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]NASB … He passed over the sins previously committed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]NIV … he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]AMP … He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]ESV … he had passed over former sins[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]ASV … the passing over of the sins done aforetime[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]CEB … in passing over sins that happened before[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]CJB … he had passed over the sins people had committed in the past[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]LEB … the passing over of previously committed sins[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Aramaic … for the sake of our sins which we had formerly sinned[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Darby … the passing by the sins that had taken place before[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]GoodNews … the forgiveness of the sins that are passed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Message … finally taking care of the sins he had so patiently endured[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Phillips … the wiping out of the sins of the past[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Websters … for the remission of sins that are past[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Weymouth … the passing over of the sins previously committed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Youngs … the passing over of the bygone sins[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]How to take care of our post-conversion sins[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]but whoever confesses and forsakes them[/SIZE] will have mercy.”

[SIZE=10pt]Some things just don’t change, do they![/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]1 John 2:1 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]1 John 1:7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]the blood[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]1 John 1:9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“If we confess (and repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]forgive us our sins[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”[/SIZE]

 

[Mr.Bride]

So are you saying that if you sin after being born again, you can't be forgiven?

 

[John Zain]

So are you saying that if you sin after being born again, you can't be forgiven?

Please read in the OP ... [SIZE=10pt]How to take care of our post-conversion sins[/SIZE]

 

[Mr.Bride]

Your title makes it seem as if you are giving evidence of that only sins prior to conversion are forgiven..Forgive me if I misunderstood but that's what it looks like. Then you wrote "Jesus' blood cleanses only the sins committed before being born again"... Please clarify..

 

[John Zain]

Your title makes it seem as if you are giving evidence of that only sins prior to conversion are forgiven..Forgive me if I misunderstood but that's what it looks like. Then you wrote "Jesus' blood cleanses only the sins committed before being born again"... Please clarify..

The OP title and first line in brown both refer to BEFORE being born-again.
The bottom of the post refers to AFTER being born-again.

 

[Tex]

So God does not forgive post-conversion sins without repentance? He doesn't forgive pre-conversion sins without repentance either. The repentance is just very delayed.

What do you mean by "forsake" our sins? If I have a habitual sin post-conversion, am I forgiven of that sin by the mercy of God?

 

[John Zain]

WIf I have a habitual sin post-conversion, am I forgiven of that sin by the mercy of God?

IMO, absolutely not ... and this is what all of the dozens of warning verses are all about.

 

[RANDOR]

Hey.....if ya asked to be forgiven...then you are forgiven (saved)...........God knows your heart.....and if He knows your heart....then He will also let you know you are saved.........that's when we become happy campers. That's why we are in here.....and not at the bars and strip clubs.

 

[Nomad]

[SIZE=10pt]Jesus’ precious blood cleanses ONLY those sins committed BEFORE being born-again![/SIZE]

One of your proof texts contradicts your premise.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

The word translated "cleanses" is in the present tense. *The Greek present active indicative indicates continuous action in the present. This means that at the time John penned this verse the continuous cleansing power of Christ's blood was a post salvation reality for John as well as his readers.

* See William D. Mounce - Basics of Biblical Greek, Present Active Indicative, Ch. 16, pg. 130

 

[lforrest]

I hesitate to post another video, but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZHHUdZ7NI

 

[aspen]

so this is exactly why Cathars only fully converted to Christianity-lite on their death beds......so they would not have time to sin. cathars were heretics, btw. the reason we are alive is so that we can be redeemed by Christ and transformed into perfect lovers of God and neighbor.......it is a messy, ugly slog.......full of failures and need for 2nd changes.

God is not trying to trick us into committing our lives to Him and practicing or sanctification in good faith, only to find out there was a clause in the contract and we were actually damned as soon as we said the word "damn" after we were saved?!?! that is crazy talk. god is not trying to damn us - He wants to redeem us.

the guy who buried his treasure is the first christian gnositic - playing it safe is refusing redemption. please reject the heresy evangelical is pedaling - it is worldliness, not of God.

 

[John Zain]

One of your proof texts contradicts your premise.

Yes, my error ... I thought it was obvious that the OP starter referred to PRE-conversion.

 

[Nomad]

Yes, my error ... I thought it was obvious that the OP starter referred to PRE-conversion.

I understood that perfectly. Let's try this again, You said:

[SIZE=10pt]"Jesus’ precious blood cleanses ONLY those sins committed BEFORE being born-again![/SIZE]"

I pointed out that John clearly says in 1 John 1:7 that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the BLOOD of Christ continues to cleanse us from ALL sin. Again, the word "cleanse" in the present tense means that this was a POST-conversion reality for the already saved Apostle John and his believing readers. Remember John says "we" when wrote 1 John 1:7. I see nothing in the text that limits this truth to just first century believers. It applies to all believers everywhere and in every time.

I'll post this again for your convenience:

*The Greek present active indicative indicates continuous action in the present.

* See William D. Mounce - Basics of Biblical Greek, Present Active Indicative, Ch. 16, pg. 130

 

[Madad21]

I hesitate to post another video, but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZHHUdZ7NI

This was incredibly enlightening and I had a revelation tonight because of this,.
Thank you Forrest.
Thank You Father God!!!

 

[Tex]

@Evangelist-7

Would you agree to the following statement: "Real Christians do not have habitual sins"?

 

[John Zain]

@Evangelist-7

Would you agree to the following statement: "Real Christians do not have habitual sins"?

Very tricky question, Tex ... appreciate it.
Perhaps we both agree that some BACs are not "real" Christians?
Notice I'm not stringing together a bunch of proofs of who a "real" Christian is.

I hesitate to post another video, but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZHHUdZ7NI

Okay, thanks for the 1:36, but I'd rather you summarize what this is all about.
Think that's possible?

 

[lforrest]

Okay, thanks for the 1:36, but I'd rather you summarize what this is all about.
Think that's possible?

Sure,

Here is part of the summary from the video: "Renowned Pastor in Uganda with a "successful ministry" in saving many souls, many healed and many delivered was SHOCKED when JESUS told him "if I came today to take my Bride...I WOULD NOT TAKE YOU." At that moment, he said "ALL HIS THEOLOGIES COULD NOT ACCEPT THAT", but JESUS is still saying: "I WOULD NOT TAKE YOU."" He lost sight of the prize. He and others from his ministry still had sinful ways that they needed to repent of.

 

[RANDOR]

I hesitate to post another video, but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZHHUdZ7NI

Yep........that's how it is alright..............that's why we are excited about Christ....
Like I've been tellin people James 4:8..............if only they would do that.

When you come closer to God he will come closer to you.

Have you seen sin?...............well i have..........it's been 24 years...but I will never forget it......
Let me describe why God can't look upon it...this is the best description I can give.............

Lets go to the hospital and go to the maternity ward....lets look at your new baby your wife just gave birth to......now watch me go in and take hold of your baby and start right in front of you twisting it's head off..................that is as a smell of roses compared to sin......it is more horrible
than us humans can imagine......so we take it for granted.....but in God's eyes....it is beyond.

So He wants His people to come to recognize their sins.............as He sees them.............

And that will only manifest in ones life.............only when they seek Him............more than they are doin at their present time.

As I have seen here at these forums....people spend more time studying scriptures to try to come to some conclusion about God instead of just getting on their knees and letting Him speak to them.............If all heard God's voice.........then all would be in agreement!

There would be no Christian vs Christian
Praise Your Holy Name Jesus

 

[Tex]

@Evangelist-7

The question wasn't meant to hide anything. I smelled something fishy in your original post. I found it.

I'm wondering what consequences you conclude from "habitual sins are absolutely not forgiven". The way I see it, if habitual sins are not forgiven, and the forgiven are the saved, then those who will be saved will be those who do not have habitual sins.

I personally disagree with "habitual sins are absolutely not forgiven", but I just wanted to know your own doctrines on such a subject.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

so this is exactly why Cathars only fully converted to Christianity-lite on their death beds......so they would not have time to sin. cathars were heretics, btw. the reason we are alive is so that we can be redeemed by Christ and transformed into perfect lovers of God and neighbor.......it is a messy, ugly slog.......full of failures and need for 2nd changes.

God is not trying to trick us into committing our lives to Him and practicing or sanctification in good faith, only to find out there was a clause in the contract and we were actually damned as soon as we said the word "damn" after we were saved?!?! that is crazy talk. god is not trying to damn us - He wants to redeem us.

the guy who buried his treasure is the first christian gnositic - playing it safe is refusing redemption. please reject the heresy evangelical is pedaling - it is worldliness, not of God.

It's a doctrine I've heard preached several times, albeit usually through a misinterpretation of passages from 1John chapter 3 (he who is born of God cannot sin). For those trained in the ways of grace, the very attempt to put limits on God's mercy, as the OP seems to do, should put us on guard. We are informed through scripture: "his mercies never come to an end, they are renewed every morning." (Lamentations 3:22,23) Any doctrine that attempts to restrain God's mercy is, as you said, worldliness and not of God.