Examining the supposed "Whole Bible" view. - No consensus?

[St. SteVen]

As a follow-up to this previous topic...

In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?

Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.
Claiming theirs is the only truth and that others are "of the devil" because their view differs.
What's wrong with this picture? Misplaced allegiance. Religious fiefdoms.
Building walls, instead of bridges.

- What is the purpose of the Bible?
- Should the Bible be used to cause division?
- Where is your allegiance ultimately?
_______________________________________________________________________

I encounter this statement a lot...
Someone discounts a scripture I quote as
not possibly meaning what it plainly says because...
It doesn't fit the "whole Bible" view. ???
As if there is consensus on what that even means,

- Is there such a thing as a "whole Bible" view?
- Is there consensus on what that means?
- Is there reasonable latitude in what that could mean?

It's not enough to simply claim, "Whatever the Bible says."
Doesn't seem to be enough consensus to make such a broad claim. ???

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[Lambano]

When someone tells you in a deep, sonorous voice, "You cannot just pick and choose which verses you believe. You must take into account the whole counsel of God", what they really mean is, "My verses are better than your verses", right?

 

[Lambano]

I think the next time someone tells me, "You can't just pick and choose which verses you believe", I'll answer, "Oh, I can't, can I? Here, hold my beer and watch this!"

 

[MatthewG]

Steven,

It’s good to start with the New Testament, or the Apostolic Record, then go back and learn the Old Testament, with some good teaching and lessons one will learn a lot; and will have plenty to examine. The whole book of the Bible, boiled down into a pot, your gonna find two things that pop out when your pour the excess out. It will be the letter F, and the letter L. Faith and love.

When comes to passion; I tend to share more the people really may know. Because of the human kinds natural response to being lazy is to definitely not make times to read, or journal, or even study.

On certain scripture you can use just one verse, but really the context of all that was said prior will be able to help in benefiting of a person having more of a questioning position of; how is possible to explain this in a reasonable way; with what the words are saying and what is being expressed. If it’s possible and by the Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

When someone tells you in a deep, sonorous voice, "You cannot just pick and choose which verses you believe. You must take into account the whole counsel of God", what they really mean is, "My verses are better than your verses", right?

Exactly!
The charge of "cherry-picking" is usually made by the WORST cherry-pickers! - LOL
As I like to reply: "That saw cuts both ways."

I think the next time someone tells me, "You can't just pick and choose which verses you believe", I'll answer, "Oh, I can't, can I? Here, hold my beer and watch this!"

LOL
I would love to see the look on their face.



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[Lambano]

The whole book of the Bible, boiled down into a pot, your gonna find two things that pop out when your pour the excess out. It will be the letter F, and the letter L. Faith and love

You just reminded me of a Bible Study (or was it a Sunday School class?) in which I asked my pastor about some of the verses that just don't seem to fit. She advised me to use your F and L as a hermeneutical guideline wherever possible.

And it's okay to admit I don't know sometimes.

Works for me.

 

[Lambano]

There's a certain underlying assumption here...

 

[amadeus]

When someone tells you in a deep, sonorous voice, "You cannot just pick and choose which verses you believe. You must take into account the whole counsel of God", what they really mean is, "My verses are better than your verses", right?

Yes, the "whole counsel of God" and who among us is able to say now absolutely that that equals what we already believe and know God and the things of God? Growing continuously toward God I believe is the key... but who am I and what do I know of growth or keys?

What about the fear of the LORD God?

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge of the holy is understanding. Prov 9:10

And what about humility as Jesus describes it here?

Mt 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Almost certainly people will add other things here, but who again knows the whole counsel of God? I certainly do not claim to...

How often should one seek and ask and knock? {see Matt 7:7]. My answer is daily or more often!

When should one stop seeking and asking and knocking? My answer is, Never, while any of our allotted time remains.

 

[St. SteVen]

There's a certain underlying assumption here...

I guess you have to be paying attention to be puzzled by it. - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

Almost certainly people will add other things here, but who again knows the whole counsel of God? I certainly do not claim to...

Well said, thanks.

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[St. SteVen]

What do you say? (topic link below)

Is Revenge a Sin?

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[St. SteVen]

From the OP.

Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.
Claiming theirs is the only truth and that others are "of the devil" because their view differs.

- What is the purpose of the Bible?
- Should the Bible be used to cause division?
- Where is your allegiance ultimately?

/

 

[MatthewG]

When someone tells you in a deep, sonorous voice, "You cannot just pick and choose which verses you believe. You must take into account the whole counsel of God", what they really mean is, "My verses are better than your verses", right?

No. It doesn’t have to be seen like that, however it does help the over all contextual and content viewed in a more openly understandable light.

 

[MatthewG]

From the OP.

Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.
Claiming theirs is the only truth and that others are "of the devil" because their view differs.

- What is the purpose of the Bible?
- Should the Bible be used to cause division?
- Where is your allegiance ultimately?

/

Many people have their own personal beliefs and opinions about the Bible. The thing is when they start judging others, even for saying they believe in the death, burial, and resurrection, yet cause they see things or do things they decide to do, like hold sabbath day, or new moon, or perhaps they go to their local priest to confess their sins to… that is a heart problem, based on “oh your not believing like we do” neener-neener.

 

[O'Darby]

I'm in my new mode of limiting myself to my blog and one post per day, and this is it. There are simply too many crazies here for any non-crazy to waste large amounts of time wrestlng with them.

I've been watching a scholarly 24-part series on Gnosticism, to be followed by one on Manichaeism. Simple-minded Christians have some notion that everything flowed smoothly from Jesus to Paul's letters to the Ecumenical Councils to the "Christianity" of today, with the occasional pesky heresy being put in its place. They have no clue as to how TREMENDOUSLY influential these early "heresies" were and how they tried to deal in an intelligible way with issues that should trouble modern "Christians" but mostly don't.

There are two elephants in the room:

1. THE BIBLE MAKES NO SENSE as a "coherent whole." Those who try to convince themselves it does work themselves into a species of madness. I've just been dealing with several absolute literalists (at least in their own minds) on other threads, and I actually believe they are crazy. They live in a frightening, demon-under-every-rock world and worship a tiny, ineffectual God. The rest of us try to make sense of something that fundamentally doesn't make sense, so we are forced to pick and choose portions of the Bible and attempt to fit them into something like a coherent (to us), intellectually and emotionally satisfying (to us) narrative.

2. THE CHRISTIAN NARRATIVE MAKES NO SENSE at anything other than the 30,000-foot level. It's like an oil painting - eight feer away, it's beautiful; up-close it's kind of a mess. All the "heresies" tried to deal with how God as Christianity posits Him to be could possibly create and allow to exist a world with such overwhelming flaws and rampant evil. The Gnostics and Manichaens were honest enough to say "He couldn't." All "heresies" likewise tried to deal with who and what Jesus actually was. The fact is, I think, that at some level we know the conventional Christian explanations simply aren't Ontologically True. They are doctrines that were negotiated and hashed out in an effort to deal with exactly the same issues the Gnostics, Manichaens, Arians and others grappled with. They are allegorical, metaphorical attempts to deal with what are fundamentally unfathomable mysteries, but we all want to pretend they are Ontological Truth when at some intuitive level we know perfectly well they aren't.

The whole thing is, to a very large extent, a charade.

 

[St. SteVen]

Simple-minded Christians have some notion that everything flowed smoothly from Jesus to Paul's letters to the Ecumenical Councils to the "Christianity" of today, with the occasional pesky heresy being put in its place. They have no clue as to how TREMENDOUSLY influential these early "heresies" were and how they tried to deal in an intelligible way with issues that should trouble modern "Christians" but mostly don't.

Yes.
Being a modern heretic is WAY underrated. - LOL

And all those Ecumenical Councils were struggling to make sense of it all.
That should tell us something right there. And...
Did they get it right? (good question?) Loose ends no matter what.
Faith on some level will be required.

PS - Thanks for choosing my post for your daily reply.

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[amadeus]

...
...Faith on some level will be required...

Yes!!!

People want answers and God has the answers that make a difference even if none of us knows what God knows. How much do we want versus how much do we need?

Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

There may always be questions and doubts but we cannot let those things rule us if we really believe that God is who He says that He is. Let us rather continue to diligent pursuit and ask continuously for His help in that pursuit. I know that He will give it... even if I cannot prove that to anyone else. Remember what Jesus said here:

Joh 6:67

...Will ye also go away?

 

[O'Darby]

Yes.
Being a modern heretic is WAY underrated. - LOL

And all those Ecumenical Councils were struggling to make sense of it all.
That should tell us something right there. And...
Did they get it right? (good question?) Loose ends no matter what.
Faith on some level will be required.

PS - Thanks for choosing my post for your daily reply.

/

I milked a blog entry out of it -

Are We All Heretics?

I recently discovered that Amazon Prime offers a $7.99 per month subscription to The Great Courses. My life has been transformed! No longer will I be a prisoner to the inanity and insanity of standard TV fare. Good-bye, Colin Cowherd! Adios, FOX...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

Agree. Good post!

Remember what Jesus said here:

Joh 6:67

...Will ye also go away?

I love the reply from Simon Peter.

John 6:67-68 NIV
“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

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[Behold]

Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.

Another Strawman has appeared.