EZ 38-39 TIMELINE

[Dave L]

no, eternities do though, they are "life-long" or "age-long," but that won't serve you if you are not only convinced but also wish you were already dead and partying with Jesus i guess Dave. God is immortal, and also Lord of Eternities

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” (John 5:39)

"Eternal" =
③ pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod S 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod S 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I B.C.] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248–50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109–28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12. κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod S 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2 (cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9. πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod S 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3;PsSol PsSol 3:12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11 (ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳ be glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186–201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217–28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., pp. 33–34). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

 

[bbyrd009]

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., pp. 33–34). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

well Dave my guess here is that Arndt Danker Bauer et al just reelyreely wanna be immortal too, and they are just waiting for Death More Abundantly for their "eternal life" to begin also. Many will be deceived, Dave. If you seek more accurate definitions, you will find them. i have no problems whatsoever with you believing that eternity is forever if you want to, ok, i just know that that is not what Eternity meant when it was written.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You are not addressing the issues by launching insults.

Years do not exist on the New Earth, and the New Earth does not have an end. The 1000 yr does. God bless.

 

[bbyrd009]

"
But nowhere in the scriptures is a Greek word meaning "eternal" used to describe the life God gives to a Christian.
ETERNITY EXPLAINED"

Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses

here's an acceptable one by them imo; but the below is Strong's fwiw


John 5:24 Lexicon: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal
aiónios: agelong, eternal
Original Word: αἰώνιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aiónios
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-o'-nee-os)
Definition: agelong, eternal
Usage: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.

from aion,
Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age
aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Definition: a space of time, an age
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

 

[bbyrd009]

How did we get from we begin dead and then Christ brings Life more abundantly, eternal life, to we get saved but stay dead until Jesus comes back to save us again and we then go off to Death more abundantly and become immortal? By despising our birthright imo

 

[Enoch111]

How did we get from we begin dead and then Christ brings Life more abundantly, eternal life, to we get saved but stay dead until Jesus comes back to save us again and we then go off to Death more abundantly and become immortal? By despising our birthright imo

All those without Christ are spiritually dead. Then there is regeneration (a quickened spirit, abundant life in Christ, but death to self and the flesh), after that physical death (for many) followed by resurrection and immortality at the Resurrection/Rapture.

Christianity is paradoxical. *Death* means *life* and *life* means *death*.

 

[Dave L]

well Dave my guess here is that Arndt Danker Bauer et al just reelyreely wanna be immortal too, and they are just waiting for Death More Abundantly for their "eternal life" to begin also. Many will be deceived, Dave. If you seek more accurate definitions, you will find them. i have no problems whatsoever with you believing that eternity is forever if you want to, ok, i just know that that is not what Eternity meant when it was written.

If we have no definitions provided by the learned, where does that leave us?

 

[bbyrd009]

followed by resurrection and immortality at the Resurrection/Rapture.

16the only One who has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; no one has seen or can see Him, to Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.

so wadr i'll pass on that version of Death More Abundantly too

 

[bbyrd009]

If we have no definitions provided by the learned, where does that leave us?

with the defs Scripture gave us, Dave, i started out with eternal=immortal myself, ok.
what don't you like about the Strong's definition? Seems clear enough to me

 

[bbyrd009]

John 17:3 This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and the One You have sent--Jesus Christ.

see, no "this is eternal life; being accepted for your beliefs into immortality," or etc

 

[Dave L]

with the defs Scripture gave us, Dave, i started out with eternal=immortal myself, ok.
what don't you like about the Strong's definition? Seems clear enough to me

Only God has no beginning or end. The closest way to describe this to the carnal finite mind is anthropomorphically. So you can talk this or that and fuss about finite definitions, but the big picture emerges as we compare scripture with scripture.

 

[Dave L]

John 17:3 This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and the One You have sent--Jesus Christ.

see, no "this is eternal life; being accepted for your beliefs into immortality," or etc

Again, we are finite beings whom God speaks to anthropomorphically.

 

[bbyrd009]

Only God has no beginning or end. The closest way to describe this to the carnal finite mind is anthropomorphically. So you can talk this or that and fuss about finite definitions, but the big picture emerges as we compare scripture with scripture.

sure does, huh. But i note you didn't respond to my post Dave, so are you telling me that you understand that you will not live forever now or not

 

[Dave L]

sure does, huh. But i note you didn't respond to my post Dave, so are you telling me that you understand that you will not live forever now or not

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.” (John 3:36)

 

[Enoch111]

16the only One who has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; no one has seen or can see Him, to Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.

Always keep context in view. Without context, a text becomes a pretext.

At present only God has immortality (as quoted).

In the future all Christians will have immortality.

1 CORINTHIANS 15 (FUTURE)
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[bbyrd009]

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.” (John 3:36)

see Dave, you either have eternal life right now, or you don't, just like the Scripture says
and you can dodge my questions until you die if you want to, ok, this serves me fine

 

[bbyrd009]

At present only God has immortality (as quoted).

In the future all Christians will have immortality.

then you should have no probs Quoting it many other places i guess, and with those we can just nevermind that you are misinterpreting the One that is Immortal, that is apparently about to have company, even though the v fails to mention this, and even seems quite clearly to mean the opposite; God=The Only Immortal, ever

but until then i can assure you that no persons will have immortality, now or ever, and Paul is just catering to your premises there, in that quite comprehensive passage:

50Brothers, I tell you this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and corruption cannot inherit incorruption.

gee, so much for the kingdom is within you huh?
Paul just knows that he is dealing with a bunch of Galileans, looking up into the sky, and blithely misinterpreting him.
Look, i am a believer too, obv i would love nothing better than for your beliefs to come true too ok, i'm just not interested in blinding myself to the Message to do it any more.

The sense of "put on" there that Paul intentionally chooses over "become" or any less ambiguous words is obvious, even in a corrupted Strong's talking about "sinking into" a garment, trying to help out i guess, what does that even mean lol;
Strong's Greek: 1746a. enduó -- to clothe or be clothed with (in the sense of sinking into a garment). "Put on" is still a put-on, so to speak, Paul is not saying that anyone literally becomes immortal, which is why you cannot Quote it, here nor anywhere. So it's "Jesus shuvu" or "Christ shuvu" all over again, see, just a different facet imo. Should even be contrasted with "consuming Christ," that concept, which is quite different, shouldn't be too hard to see the outside contrasted with the inside here i guess.

i want to be rewarded for doing what i should have been doing all along too!
but in "putting on immortality" i come to a diff pov, and no longer care about getting my ego into a place called heaven after i have literally died

 

[bbyrd009]

50Brothers, I tell you this: Fleshbu and bloodbv cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and corruption cannotinherit incorruption. 51Listen! I am telling you a •mystery:

We will not all fall asleep,

but we will all be changed,

52in a moment, in the blink of an eye,

at the last trumpet.bw

For the trumpet will sound,

and the dead will be raised incorruptible,

and we will be changed.

53For this corruptible must be clothedbx

with incorruptibility,by

and this mortal must be clothed

with immortality.

54When this corruptible is clothed

with incorruptibility,

and this mortal is clothed

with immortality,

then the saying that is written will take place:

Death has been swallowed upbz in victory.ca, cb

55Death, where is your victory?

Death, where is your sting?cc, cd

56Now the sting of death is sin,

and the power of since is the law.cf

57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victorycg

through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58Therefore, my dear brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the Lord’s work,ch knowing thatyour labor in the Lord is not in vain.

so, if the fact that Paul has gone into prose is not enough, one might see that the passage does not even end in the way a believer might expect after all the immortality jazz, right, i mean that last v should be saying something like "Therefore brothers be yadayada bc we are all going to be living forever in heaven here real soon" or something akin to that, shouldn't it? Why be coy with such Good News? Quote it somewhere else, should be everywhere right?
?

 

[ScottA]

I believe God actually placed the timing of this war into scripture, via the birds at the great supper of God at the end of the 70th week. (Ez 39:4, Rev 19:17-18)

1. Ez 38 begins at the abomination of desolation
2. Peace and safety in first 3.5 years allows Israel to be with unwalled villages
3. Peace and safety in first 3.5 years gives Israel the decision to rebuild the third temple
4. Ez 38 is this sudden destruction in 1 Thess 5:3 at the abomination of desolation
5. Ez 39 takes place at the end of the 70th week
6. The birds eat the flesh of the dead bodies left after Ez 39 is over
7. Ez 39:2-4 comes prior to Ez 39:9
8. So Israel burns weapons for the first 7 years of the 1000 yr reign

Ez 38:11-12 You will say, “I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. 12I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land. ”

Ez 39:2-4 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. 3Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. 4On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals.

Rev 19:17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Ez 39:9 “ ‘Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.

There is a reason why Jesus said "It is an evil generation that seeks a sign." ... Because there is no timeline in the kingdom, only in the the world.

So all this sort of thing is just "world talk", of which no good can come. This sort of talk is an automatic disqualification on the truth of God.

 

[Heb 13:8]

There is a reason why Jesus said "It is an evil generation that seeks a sign." ... Because there is no timeline in the kingdom, only in the the world.

So all this sort of thing is just "world talk", of which no good can come. This sort of talk is an automatic disqualification on the truth of God.

Scott, the timeline is in the 1260, 1290, 1335 days. The time line is there, but nobody knows on what day it begins until it happens. What do you suggest, that we stop studying eschatology?