Failed Prophecies

[Helen]

No, this thread is about anti-dispensationalism. And the Rapture is always a part of dispensational teaching which is a sore point to those who hate dispensationalism. You can't ignore it.

Stranger

But three of you have chosen to make it the focus. It wasn't, and isn't.

 

[Helen]

...hahaha! But why do I care, it's Willie T's thread not mine

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Okay, I'm game. It isn't a failed prophecy until the Eternal State is realized without the Rapture having taken place. Just as we must assume that some of the OT prophecies which are unfulfilled are yet in the future. Those people who are truly knowledgeable know that you don't want to be a "date setter". We are not all Harold Campings!

 

[101G]

There is nothing new under the sun,
2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:2 "And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2 Peter 2:3 "And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not".

men never learn, as well as the hears.

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

...hahaha! But why do I care, it's Willie T's thread not mine

I think it is uproarious how much power some people here bestow upon me. I simply posted what I found to be a pretty humorous little excerpt from an old book I ran across, and several people seem to feel I reached in their ribcage and ripped out their heart.

 

[Helen]

I think it is uproarious how much power some people here bestow upon me. I simply posted what I found to be a pretty humorous little excerpt from an old book I ran across, and several people seem to feel I reached in their ribcage and ripped out their heart.

Very true...just shows how tender and touchy some are.

The only thing I know I am tender and touchy about , is when people post against speaking in tongues and say it is of the devil.
I just cannot read or post in those threads, it hurts too much.
I lie, there is one other thing...when people talk down and glibly about the power of the Blood of Jesus Christ...

But rapture..if they, or we are right, no worries, if they, or we are not, no worries. Rapture is the Presence of God Himself..whichever way we cut it.

God has got that one for all of us.

 

[Nancy]

Well, explain how the Rapture makes Jesus have three returns. I don't see it.

Stranger

Well, the first time as the Suffering Servant.
Then (If you are a pre-trib proponent) second time would be to gather all His saints.
The third time would be Him returning yet again as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Like I said earlier, this is not something I am cemented in as far as where I stand on it. I will keep myself open to what the "rapture" teaches, along with prayer. Must get all the scriptures together and really go over all of the views.

 

[101G]

Very true...just shows how tender and touchy some are.

The only thing I know I am tender and touchy about , is when people post against speaking in tongues and say it is of the devil.
I just cannot read or post in those threads, it hurts too much.
I lie, there is one other thing...when people talk down and glibly about the power of the Blood of Jesus Christ...

But rapture..if they, or we are right, no worries, if they, or we are not, no worries. Rapture is the Presence of God Himself..whichever way we cut it.

God has got that one for all of us.

this sounds like a normal family. fussing and fighting amoung siblings, but when all is said and done at the end of the day each personality make peace.

PICJAG

 

[Phoneman777]

I thought some of you might get a kick out of this excerpt from an old book I almost forgot I had.

Failed Prophecies
What's a failed prophet to do? What would you do? Since 1855, dispensationalism's supposed experts in "fulfilled prophecy in our day” have told millions of their followers (i.e., victims) that the Rapture was just around the corner because Russia ("Magog") will soon invade Israel. Then came the establishment of the nation of Israel on May 14, 1948. The generation of the fig tree had begun! Only 40 more years until the Millennium! Only 33 more years until the absolutely Secret Rapture! 1981 is coming! Get ready! Get Set!

[This was written 26 years ago. (It is 2019 as of this post) Willie T]

No go; 1981 came and went. Nothing happened. The next major date was May 14, 1988, the 40th anniversary of the establishment of the State of Israel — the "generation of the fig tree,” 1948-1988. May 14 came and went. Nothing happened. No Rapture. Again.

"No, no,” said Edgar C. Whisenant in July, 1988, "it's going to be this September!” September came and went. Nothing happened. "No, no,” said Mr. Whisenant, "I forgot about the extra year in zero A.D. It's going to be in September, 1989.” September, 1989, came and went. Nothing happened. In November, the Berlin Wall came down. A big problem was brewing. Where was national Israel's invader? No invasion — no Rapture!

But then came hope! Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990. "Wait, wait!” the cries came from The Church of Paperback Sensationalism. (I call this theology dispensensationalism.) "It really will be Babylon. It won't be Russia after all. We've been wrong since 1855. No problem, though. We just need to shift a few gears. It's Iraq. Baghdad. The restoration of Babylon is almost here. It's coming soon!” Dallas Seminary professor Charles Dyer's book was published in January, 1991, The Rise of Babylon: Sign of the End Time. Babylon was on the map again! So was Dallas Seminary. Hot stuff!

Even before Dr. Dyer got into the race for royalties, retired Dallas Seminary president John Walvoord spotted a fabulous new market for his 1974 Armageddon prophecy book that had gone out of print. Once again, the gullible victims streamed into the book stores to get the inside dope. The cash registers hummed. Royalties flowed. One million copies of this resurrected potboiler had been sold by February (Time, Feb. 11, 1991).

But then a funny thing happened on the night of January 16, 1991. Our Air Force began the smashing of "Babylon.” Over the next month, bombs smashed Iraq flat. Flatter than the collected works of Hal Lindsey. Thud. "It's revised edition time!"

Hoaxed Again!
The realization began to dawn on the hapless troops in the pews: hoaxed again. Again! Nuts! People don't like to be hoaxed. Christians don't like to be hoaxed in the name of Jesus. Fundamentalists love to be thrilled. They love sensationalism. But at some point, their resentment about being hoaxed overcomes their love of endlessly false prophecies.

Then came the week of August 19. Thud. Down went Dzerzhinsky's statue. Down went the dreams of the Communist Party's leaders. Boris Pugo shot his wife and killed himself. Marshal Akhromeyev committed suicide. Soviet Communism died. It's over.

So is Hal Lindsey's reputation as a prophet. So is John Walvoord's. Walvoord, at 80, lived to see it. I regard this as evidence that God has a marvelous sense of humor.

I wonder how it feels. To be a Communist who lives long enough to have seen this. To be a best-selling paperback book author whose specialty is false prophecies about Russia's coming invasion of Israel. To see the work of your life get flushed down the commode of history. ("This can't be happening. It just can't!") It must be painful. I hope so.

The day after Dzerzhinsky's statue crashed to the ground in what was then called Dzerzhinsky Square, but what will soon be called something else, Paul Crouch announced to his Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) viewers: "We need to get Hal Lindsey on the show to explain the meaning of what has happened.” Indeed you do, Paul. Let him try to reconcile these events for your emotionally victimized followers. Let him play the "identify Babylon” game one more time. Let's see Hal Lindsey dance the "Whisenant two-step.” It greatly resembles "Montezuma's two-step.” In both dances, the pressure is intense. There will be dozens of Whisenant two-steppers in 1992, the year of the revised editions.

Rapture Postponed
It's all over. The curtain has come down. The Rapture has been postponed. Again. A dispensationalist can still argue that the inevitable invasion of Israel by Russia may take place in a hundred years or a thousand, but the troops in the pews have been told for 135 years that this event is imminent. The Rapture was due at any moment because Russia was going to invade the State of Israel in any moment plus seven years. "The clock of prophecy is ticking again!” shouted all those best-selling authors who never bothered to tell their hapless followers that according to original dispensational theology, the clock of prophecy will not start ticking until after the Rapture. It's "any-moment Rapture” vs. "ticking clock today."

Even John Walvoord couldn't resist those fabulous book royalties (1.6 million copies, as of August). He had to get back into the pop-dispensationalist parade. He announced that the clock of prophecy was again ticking (USA Today, Jan. 19, 1991). He abandoned the doctrine of the any-moment Rapture, which he had long taught. He thereby baptized Hal Lindsey's "just around the corner” eschatology. And then… thud. Goodbye reputation.

Smashed. Smashed. Smashed by Norman Schwarzkopf in January and by Boris Yeltsin in August. Flattened. Dead. "Rapture postponed indefinitely.” What now?

Sounds like a great book

 

[Phoneman777]

I'll push the list a bit more... Besides Charles Ryrie, leading dispensational theologians include John Walvoord, J. Dwight Pentecost, Norman Geisler and Charles Feinberg. Popular dispensational pastors and writers include; Charles Swindoll, Dave Hunt, Jack Van Impe and Charles Stanley. Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel movement represent the Charismatic side of dispensationalism.

Hunt is a Dispensationalist?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Hunt is a Dispensationalist?

Was a dispensationalist. He's dead now. 6 years ago.

 

[Phoneman777]

Camping not an expert but an idiot. It is obviously unbiblical to make any predictions-- period.
All the mockers of the Pre-trib belief ....just predicted in Bible scripture. The more hate poured towards the pre-tribbers the more I look up with joy for His appearing!

I'm a critic of pre-trib rapture, but not for the sake of belittling another's sincerely held beliefs...only because so many are counting on a "second chance" instead of the "Second Coming" and are in grave danger.

According to Lucifer's secret society spokesmen, he is planning to plunge the world into such and unbelievable period of tribulation chaos where "the multitudes disillusioned with Christianity..." (they were supposed to be caught up in the "pre-trib rapture" but are yet still down here amidst the chaos) "...whose spirits will be from that moment without direction and leadership..." (with their expectations of an early evacuation destroyed, massive eschatological confusion has enveloped them) "...and anxious for an ideal, but without knowledge where to send its adoration..." (if only they would have believed us Historicists!!!)..."will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer..."

 

[Willie T]

Hunt is a Dispensationalist?

Dave Hunt (Christian apologist) - Wikipedia

 

[Phoneman777]

Was a dispensationalist. He's dead now. 6 years ago.

He's on the radio weekdays here. Great show

 

[Willie T]

Sounds like a great book

I could send you a free "zipped" MS Word copy if you like.

 

[Willie T]

He's on the radio weekdays here. Great show

The "Berean" show?

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, the first time as the Suffering Servant.
Then (If you are a pre-trib proponent) second time would be to gather all His saints.
The third time would be Him returning yet again as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Like I said earlier, this is not something I am cemented in as far as where I stand on it. I will keep myself open to what the "rapture" teaches, along with prayer. Must get all the scriptures together and really go over all of the views.

I think you're on the right track, Nancy! Sending virtual hugs

 

[Phoneman777]

The "Berean" show?

yep

 

[Phoneman777]

I could send you a free "zipped" MS Word copy if you like.

Thanks, but I'd rather pick one up to read. What's the full title?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

He's on the radio weekdays here. Great show

I'm sure you love it, he's theologically inept.