"Faith without works is dead"

[FHII]

@FHII.....I believe that we all get in a bit of hot water, if we start to look upon these men as completely infallible...We must not forget that they were coming out of a system which had been theirs since God first gave them the law, so it would have undoubtedly have been quite difficult to reconcile the old with the new....They did a very good job, for 'mere' men and thankfully there is enough of the Holy Spirit in it for us to understand mostly, where they were coming from......
Thank our Lord Jesus always for making it possible for men to receive the Holy Spirit of God, into our fallen bodies....Now if men could just understand the He is not trying to save our flesh, and neither should we.
Thanks, great post

Yes... I disagree with James on certaun points, but it was how God planned it. James was a good man and history says he died a martyr's death. I believe he is in paradise.

Heck... Paul was actually fond of him and though he spoke harshly about him in Galatians, he continued fellowship with him even though he knew what would result of it.

 

[pia]

@FHII Just thought on something else.....It seems to me they forgot Jesus' story about not putting Old wine into New wine skins, so I also wrote it wrong...we were never supposed to reconcile the two... The law was finished with, and a New Creation was to be the result.... Guess far too many got it back to front from the very start almost....

 

[pia]

Yes... I disagree with James on certaun points, but it was how God planned it. James was a good man and history says he died a martyr's death. I believe he is in paradise.

Heck... Paul was actually fond of him and though he spoke harshly about him in Galatians, he continued fellowship with him even though he knew what would result of it.

They did a wonderful job under the circumstances, and I am sure they are honored in Heaven and or Paradise...

 

[FHII]

@FHII Just thought on something else.....It seems to me they forgot Jesus' story about not putting Old wine into New wine skins, so I also wrote it wrong...we were never supposed to reconcile the two... The law was finished with, and a New Creation was to be the result.... Guess far too many got it back to front from the very start almost....

And the governor at the wedding at Cana said Jesus saved the best wine for last.

We can actually keep this new covenant! I am not against the law or works... Do them as much as you can and praise God. But that is not what we are judged by.

 

[pia]

And the governor at the wedding at Cana said Jesus saved the best wine for last.

We can actually keep this new covenant! I am not against the law or works... Do them as much as you can and praise God. But that is not what we are judged by.

I agree, we shouldn't be against that which was perfect....Sadly we were not

 

[Job]

So why don't you step up and take on the verses?

Look at my posts on page 1.

 

[FHII]

Look at my posts on page 1.

Just had a look. I saw 1 post that may pass as addressing Eph 2:8-9, but it was a blanket statement. It didn't directly address the verse. It was something about God looking at the reasons for doing the work or something like that.... Perhaps I will look again.

In short... I didn't see you addressing the verse.

 

[Job]

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.


This passage makes it clear that one cannot work their way into the kingdom of heaven.

But if you read on...


10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


This passage does not cancel out the passage from James.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A Pound of Flesh:

James 2:20-26 KJV
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

The works are works of the Spirit. Not works of the flesh. There is no way Abraham knew that his actions prophesied of the coming messiah, the son, Jesus Christ; whom the Father would offer up as a sacrifice for all. This is clear evidence that it was indeed the Spirit that performed the works through Abraham. Apart from God; man can do nothing. Abraham is not the one that clearly demonstrated THE SON being placed on the altar for sin. The works of Abraham were Spirit, not flesh. Man apart from God doesn't do that...tell the future.

[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Justified through works (of the Spirit) which are evidence of the Spirit of God. Evidence of the unseen. The Spirit of God.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Also works produced of the Spirit...evidence of Rahab's faith. How did Rahab's works display Christ.

26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Where there IS no Spirit...the body is dead. There is no life. So, Faith produces works of evidence of LIFE in Christ. Works without the Spirit is dead works and are accounted as nothing.

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works,
Show me your faith without works of the Spirit.
and I will shew thee my faith by my works."
and I will show you my faith by the works of the Spirit.

The thief on the cross showed "faith by his works" when he spoke:
Luke 23:41-42 KJV
[41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. [42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Only the Father in heaven could have put words of Spirit into the thiefs mouth, speaking truth "this man hath done nothing amiss."
meaning Jesus Christ, the one we crucified, done nothing of the flesh.

James 4:3 KJV
[3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Christ did not ask amiss. Again, the thief did not know the scripture but He knew Christ. His words are evidence...works of Spirit.


John 3:27 KJV
[27] John answered and said, A man can receive nothing (of the flesh), except it (MUST) be given him from heaven.

John 5:19 KJV
[19] Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself (nothing of flesh) , but what he seeth the Father (Spirit)do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30 KJV
[30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 6:63 KJV
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 8:54 KJV
[54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing (flesh): it is my Father (Spirit)that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV
[19] Circumcision is nothing(but flesh), and uncircumcision is nothing(but flesh), but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1 Corinthians 9:16 KJV
[16] For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing (of flesh) to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

1 Corinthians 13:3 KJV
[3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing(of the flesh).

If we do not have the love of God. If we don't have the Spirit. The works are of the flesh and are dead works.

Galatians 5:2 KJV
[2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised (of flesh) , Christ shall profit you nothing.

Hebrews 2:8 KJV
[8] Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing (of flesh)that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

The flesh knows nothing.
The flesh does nothing.
The flesh accomplishes nothing.
The flesh finds nothing.
The flesh profits nothing.
The flesh seeks nothing but self.

 

[blessedhope]

Just luv >> Here we go with this works again!! works was nailed to the cross!1> but you say BH>> but the bible says this!!>

 

[Grams]

Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the world of truth."(2 Tim. 2.15)

· Have you ever wondered why today's Christians can eat pork even though in the Old Testament men were forbidden to do so?

· Or, do you know people (or, perhaps yourself) who shun Christianity because Christians can't seem to agree on anything?

· And what about all those contractions in the Bible?



These are all valid concerns, but when a person begins to "rightly divide" the word of truth, as admonished by Paul to Timothy, these seeming difficulties and disputations are resolved. To "rightly divide" means that God has dealt with mankind at different times with different expectations from him. Although it is profitable for us to read the entire Bible (2Tim.3:16), it is imperative that we understand which part of the Bible is intended primarily for us in this time of Grace. The following excerpt from the book "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam explains:

"If I should step inside a modern United States Post Office all would doubtless seem very confusing to me. But it would be a mistake to suggest piling all the mail neatly into one corner and handing it out promiscuously to all comers as some would do with the Bible. The postal employees must rightly divide the mail so that each person receives what is addressed to him. What seems like confusion to the novice is really a simplification of the work to be done in getting each person's private mail
to him.

It is granted that in the Bible even that which was addressed to those of other dispensations is given to us for our learning and profit, but we must not confuse this with our own private mail or make the mistake of carrying out instructions meant particularly for others.

While I am reading mail addressed personally to me, a friend may hand me, for my interest or information, mail addressed to him. His mail and mine may all prove informative and profitable, but I must still be careful not to confuse the two, expecting to receive things promised to him or carrying out instructions addressed to him.

Thus, all the Bible is for us, but it is not all addressed to us or written about us, and if we would really understand and enjoy it; if we would really know how to use it effectively in service for Christ, we must be careful always to note who is addressing whom, about what and when and why" (p.20).



In every dispensation, righteousness before God has always been achieved by believing what God has said and acting upon it. For example, the law required every male child to be circumcised, but that is not God's requirement today.

The LAW says: And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen. 17:14.

But GRACE says: And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands...Col. 2:10,11.



There were also many dietary laws, and one in particular many people remember is the prohibition not to eat pork. But under the dispensation of Grace, we are not under those prohibitions.

The LAW says: And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass. Deut. 14:8

But GRACE says: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1Tim: 4:4



And the Sabbath day. In our day of grace, one day is like unto another. All are to be lived to the glory of God.

The Law says: Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God...Ex. 20:8,10.

But GRACE says: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days... Col.2:16,17


And because of the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross, we are no longer under any provision of the law for the forgiveness of sin.

The Law says: And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (Matt. 6:12) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matt. 6:14,15.

But GRACE says: And ye be kind one to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you. Eph. 4.32.


The ultimate example of the difference between law and grace is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The law required annual blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins, which we now understand were but a foreshadow of the ultimate sacrifice Christ Jesus would make for the complete payment for all of our sins.

The Law says: The blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifiethto the purifying of the flesh. Heb. 9:13

But GRACE says: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12


For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Romans 10:4)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8,9)


Where the dispensation of the law was entrusted to Moses (John 1:17), the dispensation of the grace of God was entrusted to Paul. Why is understanding this so important? Because it is by this message of grace, dispensed by Paul, that God will judge us. Remember, righteousness comes by believing what God says (i.e., what God is saying to us in this age of Grace) and acting on it. That is what faith is: believing God; trusting Him and His Word. Paul says in Romans 2:16:

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY Gospel.


Paul tells us that he was appointed by God to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the Gentiles,..." (Ro. 11:13) and that his message was revealed to him directly by Jesus Christ:

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached to of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal.1:11,12)


How then does Paul's gospel differ? Pastor Thomas Brusha, in his booklet "Dictionary of the Gospel" gives a clear explanation:

God promised in the Old Testament to set up a Kingdom here on earth through the nation Israel, in which Christ would reign as King! Christ was here; and the good news proclaimed was that the Kingdom was at hand. In Matthew 10:7 we find this to be the same gospel the Twelve Apostles were sent to preach. Also, in Matthew 10:5,6 we learn that this gospel was good news for the Nation of Israel. It is amazing, yet true, that after the Twelve Apostles had been preaching this gospel now, for some time, they still did not know about Christ's purpose to go to the Cross and die for their sins. We know this is true because when Christ began later to tell his Apostles that he was going to Jerusalem to die, they didn't believe him, nor did they understand what he was talking about. The reason being, they were preaching the good news about the Kingdom. They expected Christ to establish Israel's Kingdom and to take the throne as their King - see Matthew 16:21,22; Luke 18:31-34: and Luke 19:11.


How then, could the twelve Apostles have preached the same gospel the Apostle Paul later preached, when they did not know or understand anything about the Cross at that time? Paul preached :

"THE CROSS" and "CHRIST CRUCIFIED (1 Corinthians 1:18,23)

The point is this. The gospel that the Twelve Apostles preached during the earthly ministry of Christ is not the same gospel the Apostle Paul was sent to preach later. According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the gospel Paul preached was the GOOD NEWS of the DEATH, BURIAL, and RESURRECTION of Christ FOR OUR SINS.

Paul tells us in Galatians 1:11,12 where his gospel originated. It was after the resurrection and ascension that the Lord Jesus Christ revealed to the Apostle Paul all that was accomplished on the Cross. In acts 20:24 Paul calls this message "THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD." In Galatians 2:1,2 we see that this gospel is intended for the Gentiles as well as the Jews; and in Galatians 2:6-10 we find that the Twelve Apostles learned of this gospel from Paul.

In this present age of "GRACE", God has set Israel as a nation aside, and the Kingdom promised to them has been postponed until a future time. Therefore the "GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM" is NOT God's message of good news for today, but rather the good news of how the Cross saves Sinners of all nationalities. This is God's message for today! (pp6-8).


The following books are recommended:

"Dictionary of the Gospel" by Thomas Bruscha
"Things That Differ" by C. R. Stam
"The Dispensations" by Hazel I. Brown

 

[101G]

Have you ever wondered why today's Christians can eat pork even though in the Old Testament men were forbidden to do so?

not saying that you're right or wrong, under the law they could not. but before the law, Genesis 9:1-3 "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things". nothing is left out except on thing. don't eat any blood. verse 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat".

I read your post, the Law and Grace dispensation are to certain people all times. Grace have always been in force, only the Law was "added" because of transgression. here it is all in a nut shell. Galatians 3:16-29 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. (ONE NEED TO READ THAT VERSE AGAIN) For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.(Read that one again). But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (that need to be read again) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise".

I a nut shell.

peace in Christ Jesus

PS, by the way Grams, GOOD post

 

[Grams]

Thanks " Well-Known Member"

It's from my church .........

 

[DicipleofJesus]

They did a wonderful job under the circumstances, and I am sure they are honored in Heaven and or Paradise...

This does not belong on the praise forum. You people want to debate and argue do so in the appropropriate forums. This forum is to praise God. Not to come off sounding like defective anuses!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

This does not belong on the praise forum. You people want to debate and argue do so in the appropropriate forums. This forum is to praise God. Not to come off sounding like defective anuses!!!

hmm, strikes me that pia was just praising there lol, i dunno

 

[pia]

This does not belong on the praise forum. You people want to debate and argue do so in the appropropriate forums. This forum is to praise God. Not to come off sounding like defective anuses!!!

Apologies....I hadn't been aware of the section, I usually look at the titles of the posts, and read the ones I find interesting, as well as a few peoples posts, which I follow after.
I believe as you, there is far too little praise and thanksgiving to our Beloved and far too few testimonies.....
I wasn't putting anyone down in my posts however.
I shall endeavor to be more careful in trying to make sure which section I am in...

 

[pia]

@VictoryinJesus ....That was a very concise post on the varies verses dealing with faith and the spiritual works that follow, like Jesus is also quoted as saying :" And greater works than these shall you do.", so yeah, obviously Jesus must have expected us to follow suit and do what He did, the same way, by listening to the Holy Spirit / The Father and doing what He asks you and trusting Him with the things we cannot do in the flesh, such as healing and raising the dead.......But where is the faith we need, to have Him do the same miracles with us, as he did with Jesus ? First we must get to properly KNOW Him as Love and 100% Love, not a mix of light and dark.......We can get to know His real will that way, and it should become easier for us to depend on Him........But beware, there are many who will actively try to stop this, even 'well meaning' christians, because they live in the wrong kind of Fear of God and mostly refuse to receive Jesus as a real resurrected alive being NOW....Even the Bible says that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.......Most it seems, are only interested in the Jesus back then, and the Jesus to come........NOT the Jesus, with us TODAY ! Without Him we can do nothing...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus ....That was a very concise post on the varies verses dealing with faith and the spiritual works that follow, like Jesus is also quoted as saying :" And greater works than these shall you do.", so yeah, obviously Jesus must have expected us to follow suit and do what He did, the same way, by listening to the Holy Spirit / The Father and doing what He asks you and trusting Him with the things we cannot do in the flesh, such as healing and raising the dead.......But where is the faith we need, to have Him do the same miracles with us, as he did with Jesus ? First we must get to properly KNOW Him as Love and 100% Love, not a mix of light and dark.......We can get to know His real will that way, and it should become easier for us to depend on Him........But beware, there are many who will actively try to stop this, even 'well meaning' christians, because they live in the wrong kind of Fear of God and mostly refuse to receive Jesus as a real resurrected alive being NOW....Even the Bible says that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.......Most it seems, are only interested in the Jesus back then, and the Jesus to come........NOT the Jesus, with us TODAY ! Without Him we can do nothing...

Yes, it has to be Spirit. Apart from the Father we can do nothing. Amen, Pia. Thank you for sharing with us!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

James 2:1-19
[1] My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. [2] For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; [3] And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

Under my footstool?
That is where the Lord puts His enemies.

[4] Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? [5] Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? [6] But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

[7] Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. [12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Do you see it? If we have respect of persons and make another our footstool (there by judging them to be an enemy) then we are no different than someone that commits adultery. We are no different than someone that kills. And we come under the whole law as a transgressor. We are, through repentance and mourning, to see the magnitude of our own sin and thereby judge with mercy...

[13] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. [14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? [15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, [16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? [17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Do you hate your brother or sister?
Where is the Spirit?
"I will shew thee my faith by my works"


Mark 14:6-8
[6] And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought(worked) a good work on me. [7] For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always. [8] She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

There is only one way she knew Jesus was going to His death.
Only by the Spirit of God...she wrought a good work.

(John 3) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That his deeds may be manifest that they (his deeds) are wrought(worked) in God.

Acts 12:5-8 KJV
[5] Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him. [6] And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison. [7] And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him , and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands. [8] And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

Why did the light (angel) smote Peter on the side?

 

[bbyrd009]

Why did the light (angel) smote Peter on the side?

hmm, i always just read "tapped him" or like "jostled him" on the side, to wake him up; but Lex is not really agreeing, hmm Strong's Greek: 3960. πατάσσω (patassó) -- to beat (of the heart), to strike