"Faith without works is dead"

[twinc]

Job, I agree with parts of your post. And there are parts I don't agree with. I am not here to defend myself. I am going to stop talking; seeing it would only make more confusion between us. You are right: we can certainly disagree.

perhaps some good may be gained by reference to Titus 3:8 & 14 - twinc

 

[Job]

Job, I agree with parts of your post. And there are parts I don't agree with. I am not here to defend myself. I am going to stop talking; seeing it would only make more confusion between us. You are right: we can certainly disagree.

I'm ok with that.


o

 

[VictoryinJesus]

perhaps some good may be gained by reference to Titus 3:8 & 14 - twinc

Thank you. I don't know if I have ever read Titus. If I have, it must not have penetrated. The first couple of verses, they cut.

Titus 3:1-6 KJV
[1] Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, [2] To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. [3] For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. [4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, [5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; [6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

 

[pia]

It also goes on to say in Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about THE LAW ; as they are unprofitable and useless. 10) Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition.
11) knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."
Seems to me, there is far too much of that happening on this forum..

 

[pia]

You're focusing too much on the physical aspects of "works". Works are spiritual and are accomplished every time you are obedient to that second commandment, Love your neighbor as yourself. Every time you treat someone with respect and dignity, you are accomplishing works. Showing genuine empathy and compassion produces works that the Lord sees as He searches the hearts of His children.

The Lord doesn't look at what you did, He looks at your reasons for doing them. If you help someone cross the street, God isn't looking at what you're doing, He's looking at the compassion you have for that individuals safety.

Works come from the heart. One doesn't have to think about performing works, they happen automatically. And I believe it is the individual who does these works, not Jesus. He completed His work and now it's time for us to follow in His footsteps. I do believe the Spirit is there to guide us in our walk of obedience, but the works that are performed come from us.

That's what I believe regarding works. If that's not what you believe, that's fine. I'm not here to change anybody's mind. I'm simply showing how I see it.

o

Great post....Wonderfully put !

 

[Grams]

Your not saved if you think works has any thing to do with salvation........

Yes !!!! it is always what GOD would want for you to help others....................

But the CROSS...................... did it all............ JESUS shed HIS HOLY BLOOD for our sins.....

And you do not want to take that away..........!

Eph:2:
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Grams]

Eph:2:
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Job]

James 2
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[Grams]

James 2
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

You need to pay attention to whom is that verse speaking to (((
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.[/QUOTE]
That is not to us Gentiles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Job]

You need to pay attention to whom is that verse speaking to (((
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

That is not to us Gentiles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]


The Word of God is for everyone.

 

[Grams]

And my bible say's

Throughout his epistle to Jewish believers

 

[Job]

And my bible say's

Throughout his epistle to Jewish believers

Jesus died for everyone.

 

[Grams]

Eph:2:
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast


Do you not see ? not of works.........?

 

[bbyrd009]

lol. and the band plays on...

 

[Job]

Eph:2:
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast


Do you not see ? not of works.........?

John 14
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

James 2
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[Truth]

You're focusing too much on the physical aspects of "works". Works are spiritual and are accomplished every time you are obedient to that second commandment, Love your neighbor as yourself. Every time you treat someone with respect and dignity, you are accomplishing works. Showing genuine empathy and compassion produces works that the Lord sees as He searches the hearts of His children.

The Lord doesn't look at what you did, He looks at your reasons for doing them. If you help someone cross the street, God isn't looking at what you're doing, He's looking at the compassion you have for that individuals safety.

Works come from the heart. One doesn't have to think about performing works, they happen automatically. And I believe it is the individual who does these works, not Jesus. He completed His work and now it's time for us to follow in His footsteps. I do believe the Spirit is there to guide us in our walk of obedience, but the works that are performed come from us.

That's what I believe regarding works. If that's not what you believe, that's fine. I'm not here to change anybody's mind. I'm simply showing how I see it.

o

I Agree, Without the Love of our Savior in us we would rarely do works for others! It is the Love that flows through us to do the works for others, and it is Not Our Love But the Love Of God. So by Faith, we receive love, which produces works, and we will never be Justified by works, Only by Faith. Faith Justifies the Works, not us.

 

[FHII]

John 14
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

James 2
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Job...

I've seen this too often. When Eph 2:8-9 and other like verses are brought up certain folks don't discuss them but rather revert back to James. That isn't discussing Eph 2, its ignoring it. Furthermore there are some who claim that there isn't a disagreement between James and Paul. Well, I don't remember if you are one of them, but answering Eph with James seems to me that you are trumping Eph with James. In no way is that supporting that there is no division. In fact it appears to be saying James was right and Paul wasn't. So why don't you step up and take on the verses?

 

[pia]

Job...

I've seen this too often. When Eph 2:8-9 and other like verses are brought up certain folks don't discuss them but rather revert back to James. That isn't discussing Eph 2, its ignoring it. Furthermore there are some who claim that there isn't a disagreement between James and Paul. Well, I don't remember if you are one of them, but answering Eph with James seems to me that you are trumping Eph with James. In no way is that supporting that there is no division. In fact it appears to be saying James was right and Paul wasn't. So why don't you step up and take on the verses?

Wasn't James teaching the Jews? And Paul the Gentiles ? There are bound to be differences to their approach in that case...
Also if people would look to what James wrote, and try to see it through the eyes of love , instead of some 'basher' it does make a difference....

 

[FHII]

Wasn't James teaching the Jews? And Paul the Gentiles ? There are bound to be differences to their approach in that case...

Absolutely! There are at least two other things to consider:
1. James even after the Council at Jerusalem was a staunch supporter of Jewish Christians keeping the Law (and he felt that included Paul as well... See Acts 21).
2. His epistle may have been written before the Council. That is somewhat a moot point seeing as how he still looked to keep the Law intact for Jewish believers. But perhaps his epistle may have been different after the Council. Probably not, but maybe so.

Also if people would look to what James wrote, and try to see it through the eyes of love , instead of some 'basher' it does make a difference....

I absolutely agree. James spoke of "The Royal Law" as being love thy neighbor. Paul also spoke on that as did Peter and John. The book of James reminds me of 1 Corinthians in many aspects. I actually love the book of James! Lot of wisdom in it (it was written TO the Jews, but FOR us all).

The book of James is solid teaching and the overall point is NOT different from what Paul preached. Its the foundation of James (that any Christian: Jew or gentile is under the law) which is in error.

 

[pia]

@FHII.....I believe that we all get in a bit of hot water, if we start to look upon these men as completely infallible...We must not forget that they were coming out of a system which had been theirs since God first gave them the law, so it would have undoubtedly have been quite difficult to reconcile the old with the new....They did a very good job, for 'mere' men and thankfully there is enough of the Holy Spirit in it for us to understand mostly, where they were coming from......
Thank our Lord Jesus always for making it possible for men to receive the Holy Spirit of God, into our fallen bodies....Now if men could just understand the He is not trying to save our flesh, and neither should we.
Thanks, great post