Fake Christians

[MatthewG]

It’s easy for people to forget the deeper truths in Scripture—and sometimes even overlook what Jesus actually taught. Throughout His ministry, He never directly addressed topics like homosexuality, yet many focus on these areas in ways that feel more hurtful than helpful. Sadly, prejudice still exists—in racism, judgment, and exclusion—and that’s something we need to acknowledge and address.

Yeshua came to bring healing and hope, knowing that all of us fall short in one way or another. Scripture reminds us that breaking even one part of the Law makes a person guilty of the whole—and the consequence of that is spiritual death. That’s precisely the brokenness Yeshua came to redeem.

Often, people jump from one controversy to another just to have something to criticize. It’s become clear to me: without judgment, many wouldn’t know how to have a conversation. But that isn’t the path Jesus calls us to walk.

So what can we learn from Yeshua’s wisdom? That no one is perfect but Him—and that we should be careful not to judge others. Because at the end of life, it’s God who will see through to the truth of our hearts. He’ll know whether we walked with Him or lived life on our own terms, setting aside the message of Yeshua.

People need reminders of this, even if they don’t always want them. I’m simply sharing what’s on my heart. I know I’m a sinner in need of grace, just like anyone else. And when others try to tell me what I can or can't do—especially when they have no real authority in my life—I believe they’ve missed the point.

If I make mistakes, I take responsibility. God has given each of us personal accountability. And when we choose to judge others, we should never forget: Yahavah will judge us, too.

 

[nedsk]

Its the sexual lifestyle that is the defining point.
A Homosexual is not someone who thinks about it, . its someone who practices homosexual sexuality as a LIFESTYLE.

For example....Its a person who goes to the Doctor for the "drug pack" that they can take that will keep them from getting AIDS, so that they can enjoy having homosexual sex in Gay Bar bathrooms with strangers, and so forth.

Being gay isn't a sin, engaging in sexual activity with a person of the same sex is. You people confuse being with doing. A gay person is expected to remain celibate just like an unmarried single straight person is expected to remain celibate

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

Let's go back to what the Law stated, and see if you would agree with it.


Leviticus 20:13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them


If you gonna live by this law you need to do what it says.... You need put them to death.

I don't personally condone that, because Yeshua paid for the sins of mankind.

No, I do not agree with what you stated, and here is why. Backing up just a few verses from what you quoted, we read:

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10)

The above is exactly what the scribes and Pharisees were referring to in verse 5:

John 8

[3] And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
[4] They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
[5] Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
[6] This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
[7] So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
[8] And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
[9] And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
[10] When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
[11] She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Although Jesus didn't call for this woman's death, he did tell her to "go, and sin no more," and that is precisely what we should be telling people who are guilty of sexual sins in our day and age.

Backing up just two verses from what you quoted, we read:

"And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:11)

This is precisely the type of situation that the Apostle Paul addressed with the church at Corinth.

1 Corinthians 5

[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
[8] Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Although Paul didn't call for this man's death, he did instruct the Corinthians to deliver him to Satan with the hope that he might eventually repent. Again, the sexual sins of the wicked, whether within a "church" setting or not, are the "business" of Christians. Well, in keeping with the title of this thread, the "business" of real Christians, but not the "business" of "fake Christians."

 

[Behold]

Being gay isn't a sin,

Jesus said that if you lust for sex with someone, in your head......you have committed the sin. You dont even have to touch them..

So, if the "Gay" person is not engaging in physical contact, yet is constantly engaged in homo-erotic thoughts, then they are still "in the sin".

Sin always begins as LUST in the Mind, that is then performed, or not.....

 

[MatthewG]

When you believe it’s up to you, what you do with your life is up to you. I’m not gonna go around condemning people for what they do unless it’s something egregious like pedophilia.

Everyone is accountable for their own life. You can “scripture all you like that’s fine but do you ever try to just live by the spirit to have love peace mercy faith goodness, in Christ.

People want to try to just slide by Jesus I love Paul and I’m thankful for the insights that he gives but I don’t hold Paul like over Jesus, but Paul does explain a lot from what is happening compared to them being under the old covenant and the new covenant.

So Jesus even makes a remark concerning that anyone that tries to hop defense are truly not his they must come by through him, and who are you to say what a person has on their hearts at the end of life and who are you to say that they’re bad.

 

[MatthewG]

There ain’t one perfect human being on this forum there ain’t one perfect human being in this life. There was one perfect human being that taught us his way of many people don’t like his way. They rather try to take control and have it their own way and that’s just the truth, but by all means do whatever you gotta do because if you’re gonna live by the law, you need to do what it says or if you’re gonna live by Jesus commands, you need to do what he says the only thing I know is to have faith and believe on the sun who heals the heart And love your neighbor as yourself and condemning, and judging them is not anything to do with love.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

I’m not gonna go around condemning people for what they do unless it’s something egregious like pedophilia.

As I already rightly said, people who are without Christ are condemned already (John 3:18), so this has nothing to do with "condemning people." Also, it is scary to see how you "categorize sin." In other words, ALL SIN is "egregious" in God's sight.

 

[MatthewG]

As I already rightly said, people who are without Christ are condemned already (John 3:18), so this has nothing to do with "condemning people." Also, it is scary to see how you "categorize sin." In other words, ALL SIN is "egregious" in God's sight.

OK, so there’s no point in condemning, but there is a reason to call the law if something is wrong that’s why we have it. There are people that go and do prison ministries and share the word of Jesus that’s great isn’t it?

I will say that I don’t really care for what the world projects is like the pride and things of that nature and like none of that matters to me if people wanna just be gay and be gay and let them be gay cause I don’t care it’s none of my business you know but people have a problem with it and there’s people that have a problem with Black people or Chinese people and those are a lot of things that have to deal with the heart and that’s what Jesus came to heal and that’s why I’m just saying It’s important to read your word that you have and look to the Lord Yeshua because there ain’t no one else that’s gonna save you. You can’t save yourself and going around condemning people is just simply not love and I appreciate the discussion and I appreciate you listening to what I had to say, though it may not mean anything to some people which is cool too

 

[nedsk]

As I already rightly said, people who are without Christ are condemned already (John 3:18), so this has nothing to do with "condemning people." Also, it is scary to see how you "categorize sin." In other words, ALL SIN is "egregious" in God's sight.

Even your sin right?

 

[Kokyu]

I find it difficult to understand how people approach judgment. It’s especially perplexing when someone, who undoubtedly has their own struggles and shortcomings, feels justified in evaluating another person’s life. We're all navigating our own paths—and I believe humility, not judgment, should lead the way.

An individual's lack of perfection doesn't disqualify them from speaking God's moral Truth to another. All the Bible forbids is a Christian challenging the sin in the life of another person when they're guilty of the very same sin. See Romans 2:1-4; 2:21-24 and Matthew 7:1-5. And so, we read in the Bible:

John 7:24
24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.

Proverbs 27:5-6
5 Open rebuke is better
Than love carefully concealed.
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Proverbs 28:23
23 He who rebukes a man will find more favor afterward
Than he who flatters with the tongue.

Luke 17:3
3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

1 Timothy 5:20
Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.

2 Timothjy 4:2
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

Ephesians 5:11
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

And so on.

The Christian life is, at its core, about personal fellowship with God (1 Co. 1:9; 2 co. 13:14; 1 Jn. 1:3; Rev. 3:20; Ps. 36:7-9). If we encourage our brethren to anything less than daily, intimate communion with God, we do them great evil; for there is nothing higher, better, or greater than God Himself. Perhaps the greatest hindrance to such fellowship is our sin (Ps. 66:18; Isa. 59:2; 1 Pe. 3:12). "Without holiness no man shall see God," the writer of Hebrews declared (He. 12:14b). We absolutely must address the sin that keeps us, and our fellows, from knowing and enjoying the Christian's "exceeding great reward," who is God. When we don't, when we neglect holiness and call doing so "being humble," we signal that we aren't ourselves holy and that we don't know what it is to enjoy daily fellowship with God.

You're absolutely free to share your thoughts, and I appreciate the dialogue. I'd simply like to offer one of Jesus' parables for reflection—if you're open to exploring it.

What makes you think I haven't "explored" this passage?

 

[Behold]

When you believe it’s up to you, what you do with your life is up to you. I’m not gonna go around condemning people for what they do unless it’s something egregious like pedophilia.

God condemns Homosexual Sexuality. @100%

He burned an entire city of sexual perverts, of all sorts, and not just "gay sex practioners" in Gen 19, to prove the point.
Paul speaks about it also, in Romans Chapter 1.
IN Israel you can go and see the black ash burned into the rock., where God "deleted" this population of sexual perverts into ASH.
This is not a myth., and God has not changed His perspective, as God is not interested in "Gay Rights".

So, we all understand that homosexuals exist, and they have been given a sort of "ethnic status" in many Countries that is a complete lie, so that they can then be given "rights" that protect their filthy Gay Sex practices, including getting married and adopting Children.
So, this is all an Abomination thrown into the face of God......is what this actually is..... So, what the believer has to do, is not Tolerate "Gay Agenda" or anything that promotes Gay Sex Lifestyle, while remembering always that Jesus died for everyone, and wants all to come to Faith and become a Son/Daughter of God.

Now, Billy Graham, was asked......>>"Dr Graham, if you found out that one of your children was Gay, what would you do".

He responded......"id love that one more".

But that does not mean he would ever accept their Perverted Sexual LIFESTYLE,.......... so be not confused.

See that?
That is the "LINE" in the sand, that you have to realize if you are born again., and if you can't then you have a problem, reader, and you need to solve it.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

Even your sin right?

Yes, right...which I why I regularly seek to cleanse myself from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit while perfecting holiness in the fear of God as all Christians ought to.

2 Corinthians 6

[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Corinthians 7

[1] Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[nedsk]

God condemns Homosexual Sexuality. @100%

He burned an entire city of sexual perverts, of all sorts, and not just "gay sex practioners" in Gen 19, to prove the point.
Paul speaks about it also, in Romans 1.
IN Israel you can go and see the black ash burned into the rock., where God "deleted" this population of sexual perverts into ASH.
This is not a myth., and God has not changed His perspective, as God is not interested in "Gay Rights".

So, we all understand that homosexuals exist, and they have been given a sort of "ethnic status" in many Countries that is a complete lie, so that they can then be given "rights" that protect their Gay Sex practices, including getting married and adopting Children.
So, this is all an Abomination thrown into the face of God......is what this actually is..... So, what the believer has to do, is not Tolerate "Gay Agenda" or anything that promotes Gay Sex Lifestyle, while remembering always that Jesus died for everyone, and wants all to come to Faith and become a Son/Daughter of God.

Now, Billy Graham, was asked......>>"Dr Graham, if you found out that one of your children was Gay, what would you do".

He responded......"id love that one more".

But that does not mean he would ever accept their Perverted Sexual LIFESTYLE,.......... so be not confused.

See that?
That is the "LINE" in the sand, that you have to realize if you are born again., and if you can't then you have a problem, reader, and you need to solve it.

Let's look.at just your first line

"God condemns homosexual sexuality." Would you agree with, "God condemns Homosexuals."?

 

[nedsk]

God condemns Homosexual Sexuality. @100%

He burned an entire city of sexual perverts, of all sorts, and not just "gay sex practioners" in Gen 19, to prove the point.
Paul speaks about it also, in Romans Chapter 1.
IN Israel you can go and see the black ash burned into the rock., where God "deleted" this population of sexual perverts into ASH.
This is not a myth., and God has not changed His perspective, as God is not interested in "Gay Rights".

So, we all understand that homosexuals exist, and they have been given a sort of "ethnic status" in many Countries that is a complete lie, so that they can then be given "rights" that protect their filthy Gay Sex practices, including getting married and adopting Children.
So, this is all an Abomination thrown into the face of God......is what this actually is..... So, what the believer has to do, is not Tolerate "Gay Agenda" or anything that promotes Gay Sex Lifestyle, while remembering always that Jesus died for everyone, and wants all to come to Faith and become a Son/Daughter of God.

Now, Billy Graham, was asked......>>"Dr Graham, if you found out that one of your children was Gay, what would you do".

He responded......"id love that one more".

But that does not mean he would ever accept their Perverted Sexual LIFESTYLE,.......... so be not confused.

See that?
That is the "LINE" in the sand, that you have to realize if you are born again., and if you can't then you have a problem, reader, and you need to solve it.

"Cleanse" yourself how exactly?

 

[Behold]

Let's look.at just your first line

"God condemns homosexual sexuality." Would you agree with, "God condemns Homosexuals."?

Homosexuals are sinners.

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners".

All unbelievers are "condemned".......Gay or Straight. because all unbelievers are under God's Wrath, until they become a Christian.

John 3:36, is on every unbeliever.......Gay or Straight........until they come to Christ and are forgiven.

See, there is this term......"SAVED".........a Christian is SAVED.

Saved from what?

Saved from John 3:36.

Saved from going to Hell, as a Christ Rejector.

 

[Behold]

"Cleanse" yourself how exactly?

We can't cleanse ourselves.
We have to be forgivein our sin, and then given by God "the imputed rightousness of Christ" so that we become "made righteous".
This is what it means to become a "new creation"... In Christ"... = born again Spiritually.

Now after you are born again, (not water baptized, but Born again spiritually)... you are to keep yourself from the world.......you are to live above the carnal desires of the flesh... and this is possible for every Christian, as that is the empowering of the Grace of God.

See, God's Grace offers Salvation as a Gift, and this same Grace of God, empowers the Beleiver to live HOLY.
When a believer is not doing that, then its because they have a false understanding of Salvation, (broken Faith).. and that keeps God's Grace from empowering them to live the Life of a perfected Disciple........or as Paul explains......>"As many as be perfect".

 

[nedsk]

We can't cleanse ourselves.
We have to be forgivein our sin, and then given by God "the imputed rightousness of Christ" so that we become "made righteous".
This is what it means to become a "new creation"... In Christ"... = born again Spiritually.

Now after you are born again, (not water baptized, but Born again spiritually)... you are to keep yourself from the world.......you are to live above the carnal desires of the flesh... and this is possible for every Christian, as that is the empowering of the Grace of God.

See, God's Grace offers Salvation as a Gift, and this same Grace of God, empowers the Beleiver to live HOLY.
When a believer is not doing that, then its because they have a false understanding of Salvation, (broken Faith).. and that keeps God's Grace from empowering them to live the Life of a perfected Disciple........or as Paul explains......>"As many as be perfect".

I'm not the one that said that so don't yap at me.

 

[Kokyu]

People who make excuses for those who practice Gay sex, are obviosly in need of some alone time with God, to get His perspective on it.
As they dont have it yet.
Start with Romans 1.

Never be a "chrisitan" who is infected with "blind tolerance"., as that not only proves you are an idiot, but it proves you are "of the world". Mr or Mrs or MS "WOKE".

And remember that God loves all sinners, which is why Christ died for us ALL......but He does not accept anyone's sin, or sinful lifestyle.
-

Please stop posting these grotesque pictures. Thanks.

Ephesians 5:8-12
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

"Cleanse" yourself how exactly?

You asked this in response to another poster, but I think that your question was intended for me.

My answer is:

With the provisions God has graciously provided for us through Christ.

It begins with godly sorrow and repentance, and then we can be cleansed via the blood of Christ. I am also an extremely firm believer that Christians can have demons, so deliverance from the same in Jesus' name would be a part of the need to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the spirit.

The bottom line is that Christians ought to be purifying themselves.

1 John chapter 3

[1] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[Kokyu]

Speaking God's moral truth? Man it's a mandated law (to the nation of Israel), you have to put those people to death if you are gonna adhere to it. Otherwise you just fooling yourself. In my best estimation and totally skip out on the grace of the Lord Yeshua. I don't think it's good to murder your neighbor.

You know, of course, that the theocratic, Old Covenant governing Israel in the OT is set aside under the New Covenant in and through Jesus Christ (He. 7-10:22). So, the "death to homosexuals" stuff doesn't apply to born-again, New Covenant believers. God's moral prohibition of the sin of homosexuality is still in force, however. And so, while we ought never to condemn a homosexual to death for their sin, we ought never to regard their sin as anything other than the abomination that God says it is - and as His holy people oppose it. Mind you, homosexuality is itself a sort of "death-sentence," leading the homosexual sinner into eternal hell.

At the end of the day, I recognize that I cannot stand blameless in my own flesh before God. That’s why grace is so essential.

Sharing Scripture is a beautiful and enriching practice, and I believe it offers great value. But rather than striving to perfect the flesh alone, our focus should be on nurturing the spiritual person within—through faith in Christ Jesus.

Where does God's word ever urge us to "nurture the spiritual person within"? We are to be holy as God is holy (1 Pe. 1:15-16) because to the degree we aren't holy, to that same degree God is obscured from us.

2 Corinthians 7:1
1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Ephesians 5:3-7
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

God is the Ultimate Aim of the Christian's life, not a well-nurtured spiritual Self. And so, God calls His children to ever-increasing holiness so that they might "see" Him with ever greater clarity and fullness and thus enjoy Him more and more.

I sometimes struggle to understand how anyone feels entitled to judge another. Judgment belongs in the hands of those appointed by the governing system, not among fellow human beings. None of us are flawless—we all fall short in one way or another. As we grow, we may sin less and walk more closely with Christ, but we’ll never be Yeshua, who lived, died, and rose again for us.

No Christian has the right to condemn another, regarding them as beyond God's love, grace and power, and eager to see them in hell. Such an attitude is just as morally evil as homosexuality. But the moral character of the next person's thinking, attitudes and conduct are rightly subject to God's moral standards, defined, approved or condemned by it, declared to be right or wrong, good or bad morally by those who are seeking to live by His standard.

As a Christian is transformed by the HOLY Spirit, by the God who is thrice-holy, becoming increasingly like Christ, they take on his hatred of sin (first, of their own, of course and then, of others). They see the awful destructiveness of sin with sharper and sharper clarity and feel the jeopardy sin presents to fellowship with God with more and more intensity as that fellowship develops. Any Christian, then, who wants to say that they're spiritually developing/maturing who remains placid about sin, unwilling to rebuke and oppose it, as Scripture repeatedly instructs the God-lover to do, is deceived about what spiritual maturity actually is and the true condition of their relationship with God.

As Scripture reminds us in 1 Corinthians 1:29, "That no flesh should glory in His presence." True righteousness comes from humility, faith, and the transformative work of the Spirit—not from self-made perfection.

In context, the verse you cite here is speaking to the matter of God's salvific calling, not to the matter of personal holiness. Every Christian ought to be able to say they are holier and holier, as time passes. If they can't, and if they believe holiness is a lesser, trivial matter, they don't understand the basics of the Christian faith.

In any case, no one is suggesting that godly holiness is the product of self-effort, only that such holiness is vital to Christian living.