False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[The Light]

Hi The Light,

Yes, if the Gog/Magog event takes place before the Antichrist confirms the covenant for 7 years.

According to Revelation, Gog/Magog happens after the 1000 years. Additionally, Gog/Magog happens when Israel is without walls. Further yet, there is no time for Gog/Magog to happen as the Antichrist goes forth conquering and to conquer, and then the kings of the east come to the valley of Megiddo.

I think your point and rationale is that the covenant must be in existence for the the Antichrist to confirm it, correct ?

Yes sir.

The question then becomes what is the covenant referred to ?

My view is the covenant is the Mt. Sinai covenant that the Jews still go by.

Possibly something like this agreement with many for 7 years. Note the leave no one behind objective.

And that to be the Antichrist the person must be the King of Israel perceived messiah by the Jews. The Jews believe that the messiah must be anointed the King of Israel by a known prophet.

Or maybe the Antichrist is rejected by the Jews because they know he cannot be the Messiah.

Since the Jews are also expecting Elijah the prophet to be a part of the messianic age, I think that the false prophet of Revelation 13 will probably be perceived by the Jews initially as either Elijah or the embodiment of Elijah.

It should be noted the beast of the earth of Revelation 13 has two horns.

Moses set forth the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycles, that the leader of Israel have the law read to the nation of Israel on the feast of tabernacles (a fall feast) from the place of God's choosing - which the Jews currently take to be the temple mount.

I'm not following this .

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 are the same 7 years in Ezekiel 39 following the Gog/Magog event.

Can you give a little information that confirms this?

That event will make it possible for the Jews to remove the Dome of the Rock and the Al Asqa Mosque - something that is keeping the temple from being built at present.

The Temple will be built soon. The red heifer event is at the doorstep.

 

[David in NJ]

Douggg, what if the antichrist confirms a covenant with many AFTER the covenant has begun? In other words, if the covenant with many began last year and the Antichrist confirms it at the end of the this year...........wouldn't that be possible.

There's my Friend - how ya doing?

 

[Douggg]

Can you give a little information that confirms this?

Ezekiel 39 provides the framework which all of the end times events fit within.

The 70th week of Daniel 9:27 ends with Jesus's return when He will destroy those armies that will have gathered to make war on Him and his armies of heaven (Revelation 19:21).

Ezekiel 39:17-20 describes the carnage of that event as the same as is in Revelation 19:17-18.

Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text have returned to this and having executed judgment on those armies. His Second Coming. Jesus is also recounting His dealings with the house of Israel over the past 2000 years in those verses.

Ezekiel 39:1-6 is the Gog/Magog event destruction of Gog's armies, followed by 7 months and 7 years. The prince who shall come into the middle east following Gog/Magog on the premise of peace keeper for the region will be perceived by the Jews as the messiah. He has to be a Jew.

The Jews will then begin rebuilding their temple during the 7 months that the dead are being buried. Any flair ups of muslim resistance will quickly be put down - i.e. the going forth to conquer and conquering of the person portrayed as the rider on the white horse. The white horse signifying a messiah figure. In those verses in Revelation 6, he is given a crown. That crown will be anointed as the King of Israel.

The Gog-Magog reference at the end of the thousand years at the time of Satan's last deception of the nations - indicates that it will be the same Gog-Magog nations that took part in the Ezekiel 38-39 event. Ezekiel 39 is followed by 7 months and 7 years - something not part of the Revelation 20 destruction of the attackers on the camp of the saints.

Here is a timeline chart I made of the Ezekiel 39 framework.

The person most often called the Antichrist (albeit he is not the Antichrist except for the period the Jews will think he is their long awaited messiah) goes through five stages on the path to his demise.

1. as the little horn
2. as the prince who shall come
3. as the Antichrist
4. as the revealed man of sin
5. as the beast king

 

[The Light]

There's my Friend - how ya doing?

Hey David. All is well here. And ye?

 

[Douggg]

I'm not following this .

Deuteronomy 31, Moses starts off by speaking to all Israel, i.e. the people gathered together, saying that he was 120 years old and not as fit as he once was. And that the LORD told him he would not be entering the promised land. But also informing them that God will destroy the nations in the land that they would inherit.

Then after giving some encouraging words to Joshua, in verses 7-8, Moses wrote a law which is essentially instructions to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year basis and handed it to the priests there that day.

9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

In the law, instructions, Moses commanded them to

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

So the cycle was set after that first seven years. And has been done every seven years since - unless circumstances like being in exile from the land prevented it. It has not been done in recent times because of the access issue to the temple mount.

Moses continued....

11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

The place of God's choosing is currently taken to be the temple mount by the Jews. I was informed by the Jews (Judaism) themselves of their position.

12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

So the whole nation is going to be a participant to confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant of God giving the promised land as their forever.
You can see how that would not go over with Muslims under the current circumstances. So it will be done once the Muslim presence is removed from the temple mount - i.e. following Gog/Magog.

13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

Moses was intent that future generations would not forget everything the children of Israel of his generation went through under the Mt. Sinai covenant by which God gave them the promised land as theirs forever.

-----------------------------------------------

So that ceremonial event will be overseen by the Antichrist on the feast of tabernacles from the temple mount. A big speech, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle established by Moses. The false prophet will also take part in the ceremony in my view.

 

[David in NJ]

Hey David. All is well here. And ye?

Doing better as i am now 10 months since my hip replacement surgery.

 

[TribulationSigns]

1. as the little horn
2. as the prince who shall come
3. as the Antichrist
4. as the revealed man of sin
5. as the beast king

The false doctrine of Douggg. Nowhere is said in Scripture that Antichrist will go through "5 stages". Purely speculation and a false interpreation.

 

[The Light]

Here is a timeline chart I made of the Ezekiel 39 framework.

The person most often called the Antichrist (albeit he is not the Antichrist except for the period the Jews will think he is their long awaited messiah) goes through five stages on the path to his demise.

1. as the little horn
2. as the prince who shall come
3. as the Antichrist
4. as the revealed man of sin
5. as the beast king

I think you are missing the fact that there is a beast of the sea and a beast of the earth. You are attempting to lump the 5 descriptions into stages of one beast.

 

[The Light]

Doing better as i am now 10 months since my hip replacement surgery.

That doesn't sound like fun. Ouch. Hang in there brother.

 

[Douggg]

I think you are missing the fact that there is a beast of the sea and a beast of the earth. You are attempting to lump the 5 descriptions into stages of one beast.

The beast coming out of the earth is the false prophet. Revelation 19:20 makes that clear.

The beat coming out of the sea is a kingdom. Of which the mortally wounded but healed head will be the king of.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The beast coming out of the earth is the false prophet. Revelation 19:20 makes that clear.

Sorry, but no, that is not what God actually means.

Rev 19:20
(20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast is a BODY of Satan made up of people under his influence. They are his spiritual family. Just as we are part of Christ's body, not as one person but many!

Mat 24:21-25
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
(23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(25) Behold, I have told you before.

The false christs and false prophets are the body of the beast as "false prophets" because this is where they are... in God's congregation because they will come pretend to be Christians and have the power of God preaching the gospel when it is actually the gospel of the devil.
You claimed Revelation 19:20 proves there will be one man. No, its not! The false prophet is the body of false christs and false propehts who will all be thrown into lake of fire, along with the unsaved people of the world (first beast).

The beat coming out of the sea is a kingdom. Of which the mortally wounded but healed head will be the king of.

The beast coming of the sea is Satan's kingdom. Don't forget that the sea represents wicked people where Satan's kingdom comes from. The head wound referred to His authority being taken away by Christ at the Cross so he is to be restrained from deceiving the world (Revelation 20) so Christ could build HIs Church. After this, his head will be healed means that Satan will have the power once again to deceive the people, especially the people in the congregiaton of God who have not yet sealed (saved) so they will be deceid and received the mark (owned) by the Devil.

Simple as that! Nothing is talked about some single devil man resurrected and forced people to worship his talking statue and receive physical mark in order to buy foods. Crazy speculation on your part.

 

[Davy]

Rev 19:20
(20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
....

The false christs and false prophets are the body of the beast as "false prophets" because this is where they are... in God's congregation because they will come pretend to be Christians and have the power of God preaching the gospel when it is actually the gospel of the devil.
You claimed Revelation 19:20 proves there will be one man. No, its not! The false prophet is the body of false christs and false propehts who will all be thrown into lake of fire, along with the unsaved people of the world (first beast).

The "false prophet" is the same one of Rev.13:11-16, the "another beast", a 2nd beast of that Chapter. Rev.16:13-14 also shows that "false prophet" is who will work miracles to deceive...

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV

That's this same one here...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

Revelation 13 points to only 2 "beast" concepts, a 'beast kingdom' (Rev.13:1) that comes up out of the sea of peoples and nations; and then that "another beast" that ascends from the earth (i.e., bottomless pit) a singular entity, the Antichrist, that is coming to work miracles on earth that will deceive the whole world. That "another beast" that works miracles is compared with the "dragon" (Satan). That's Lord Jesus giving us a strong hint as to who that "another beast" will be, i.e., Satan himself on earth working those miracles in plain sight for the end.

All the fleshy theories by men's doctrines trying to figure out who the coming Antichrist will be is always wrongly assigning him as being a flesh-born man. They do the same with the "false prophet" which is actually just a ROLE that the Antichrist-dragon will play. Here is why I say this, it's because NO flesh-born man is judged and sentenced to perdition in the future "lake of fire" until God's Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20, which ONLY happens a 1,000 years after Jesus has returned and reigned with His elect.

As of today, ONLY Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire". Because the "beast" and "false prophet" go into the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return, per Rev.19, that means those MUST be ROLES, that the "another beast" (Satan) will play on earth. How easy some forget simple 'basics' in God's written Word that no flesh man is judged until a 1,000 years after Christ's future return per Revelation 20.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The "false prophet" is the same one of Rev.13:11-16, the "another beast", a 2nd beast of that Chapter. Rev.16:13-14 also shows that "false prophet" is who will work miracles to deceive...

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV

That's this same one here...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

The false prophet is the beast - the body of professed Christians who have performed with lying signs and wonders (ie. false gospel, entertainment, etc.)

Revelation 13 points to only 2 "beast" concepts, a 'beast kingdom' (Rev.13:1) that comes up out of the sea of peoples and nations; and then that "another beast" that ascends from the earth (i.e., bottomless pit) a singular entity, the Antichrist, that is coming to work miracles on earth that will deceive the whole world.

Disagree. Show me the chapter and verse of the Holy Bible where God says the "earth" is the bottomless pit. I know Scripture does not teach that. That is speculation on your part.

That "another beast" that works miracles is compared with the "dragon" (Satan). That's Lord Jesus giving us a strong hint as to who that "another beast" will be, i.e., Satan himself on earth working those miracles in plain sight for the end.

Satan works through the body of the false prophet made up of false prophets, false christs, and all professed (unsaved/deceived) Christians. Not a empire, nation, or a single man.

All the fleshy theories by men's doctrines trying to figure out who the coming Antichrist will be is always wrongly assigning him as being a flesh-born man.

Agreed.

They do the same with the "false prophet" which is actually just a ROLE that the Antichrist-dragon will play. Here is why I say this, it's because NO flesh-born man is judged and sentenced to perdition in the future "lake of fire" until God's Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20, which ONLY happens a 1,000 years after Jesus has returned and reigned with His elect.

Disagreed.
I know that many people think 1,000 years is in the future and they believe Christ will establish a literal kingdom on this cursed Earth for 1,000 years. The Bible does not teach that. Sorry. Rather, the 1,000 years refer to the whole New Testament period when Christ build his church while the spirit of Satan was kept at bay until the appointed time PRIOR to Second Coming.

As of today, ONLY Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire".

Okay, time out. Here is the problem with the word, "Angels." They are messengers.

We should not lean to what some churches, seminaries, theologians, ministers, or TribulationSigns say. We should always defer to what the Bible itself says since it is our ultimate authority. And I'm sorry for being redundant, but the God-inspired word of God has never said Angel. ...Not once! It always uses the Hebrew and Greek word for messenger. This seems to be a fact that you and others choose to ignore so that you can cling to your church mores, conventions, traditions, and customs over undeniable Biblical facts. This is a sectarian religious tradition held over the God-authored tradition of Sola Scriptura.

Matthew 15:2-3

• "Wherefore do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they do not wash their hands when they may eat bread.
• And he answering said to them, `Wherefore also do ye transgress the command of God because of your tradition?"

God's word says messenger, man's tradition postulates that a certain messenger in any particular instance could be an "angel". But which is the one that is authoritatively authored by God, and which one is a translator's subjective, unobjective, perspective and supposition? We can answer that honestly, or we can pretend that placing the word ANGEL there is not subjective.
In short, the reason that I believe and declare that the God-authored Hebrew and Greek words [mal'ak] and [aggelos] mean messenger is because the Hebrew and Greek words ...mean messenger! Nothing more complicated than that. Why do you think that literal translations of God's word (e.g., in a Bible like YLT) does not have the word angel in it anywhere? ...could it be because in all of God's inspired word, there is no literal word meaning angel in it? Or do you think they did that because they deviously wanted to eliminate angels from the Bible? A or B, which is it? From studying my Bible, I see it is because there is no word meaning angel in God's text, only the word meaning messenger.

And we are the messengers of God (true believers) who are a spiritual army at war with the messengers of Satan within the church, the false prophet/beast (unbelievers) over control of the church, whose messengers are drawn from the nations of the world (Revelation 20:3; Revelation 20:8).

Revelation 2:7

• "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

Says unto the angels of the churches... Oops, I mean, the messengers of the 7 churches! That is who the warning are for! His Church! His messengers!

Not some man-made fantasy of celestial-created beings called "angels". Selah.

 

[Hobie]

The rapture(catching up) of all born-again believers is not the same event as Jesus's return to set up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years. Study and learn.

There's Christ's return, and there is the false Messiah He warned about would try to deceive And many as you can see are taking this false one, hook, line, and sinker, and will be deceived...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

According to Revelation, Gog/Magog happens after the 1000 years. Additionally, Gog/Magog happens when Israel is without walls. Further yet, there is no time for Gog/Magog to happen as the Antichrist goes forth conquering and to conquer, and then the kings of the east come to the valley of Megiddo.

That is a second and differet reference.

The Ezekiel 38 invasion has to take place no later than 3 1/2 years before the 7-th week of Daniel takes place so before the AC signs the covenant with Israel.

The Gog INVASION OF reV. 20 HAS DIFFERENT CAST OF CHARACTERS, WITH DIFFERENT RESULTS, AND LEADS TO ETERNITY.

The false doctrine of Douggg. Nowhere is said in Scripture that Antichrist will go through "5 stages". Purely speculation and a false interpreation.

View attachment 44007

THE ANTICHRIST DOES NOT GO THROUGH FIVE STAGES, BUT THE FOURTH AND FINAL BEAST OF DANIEL AND THE STATUE GOES THROUGH FIVE STAGES.

1. Imperialism (Rome) till the fourth century
2. The 2 division stage (two legs of Daniel) Rome/Constantinople) Rome went to Germany, Spain, France and the English Nations.
Constantinople moved to russia
3. One world govt phase.
4. ten king phase.
5. antichrist phase.

 

[Davy]

The false prophet is the beast - the body of professed Christians who have performed with lying signs and wonders (ie. false gospel, entertainment, etc.)

No it isn't. The "false prophet" of Rev.16:13-14 that works 'miracles' to deceive the world. In other Bible Scripture who are we told that one is that works the great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect? It's about the coming pseudo-Christ, false-Messiah, the Antichrist, the little horn, the dragon, the beast that ascends up out of the bottomless pit.

The "false prophet" is simply the name for a ROLE the Antichrist will play during the "great tribulation". (that "false prophet" ROLE is shown by Jesus in Matthew 24:23-26; by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4-9; and by Jesus again in Revelation 13:11-18, and again by Paul in 2 Corinthians 11, and by John in 1 John 2:18.)

Since most don't study all their Bible, they are not familiar that Lord Jesus Himself was prophesied to be a PROPHET per Old Testament Scripture (Deut.18). Thus the Antichrist working for the very end of this world will include his acting in the ROLE of a prophet also, the false prophet.

Those who trying to assign the Antichrist for the end, or the false prophet, to some 'fleshy' concept like you did don't even understand enough of God's Word about the coming Antichrist, much less what the "false prophet" idea is even about.

Disagree. Show me the chapter and verse of the Holy Bible where God says the "earth" is the bottomless pit. I know Scripture does not teach that. That is speculation on your part.

You are joking, right?

You need to do a Bible study on the idea of the 'pit' of hell, or abyss. It would take several Bible references in Bible 101 to explain that to you per God's written Word. I guess you don't believe what Apostle Peter taught about the "spirits in prison" either, and how Jesus preached The Gospel to those dead at His resurrection.

Satan works through the body of the false prophet made up of false prophets, false christs, and all professed (unsaved/deceived) Christians. Not a empire, nation, or a single man.

That's trying... to say the "false prophet" will be some flesh person, which idea is NOT written anywhere in God's Word. Instead, God's Word reveals the "false prophet" of Rev.16 CANNOT be a flesh person, simply because NO flesh-born person goes into the "lake of fire" until God's Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Revelation 20, the same time when all wicked, death, and even the abode of hell are destroyed in the "lake of fire". Instead, we are shown the "false prophet" and "beast" are cast into the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return, per Rev.19. So your brainwashed mind apparently cannot even grasp that Biblical Truth.

Disagreed.
I know that many people think 1,000 years is in the future and they believe Christ will establish a literal kingdom on this cursed Earth for 1,000 years. The Bible does not teach that.

No need to express your 'wrong opinion' against God's written Word of Christ's future literal "thousand years" reign that begins on the day of His future return (Rev.20). I already picked up on your hint of your wrongly believing men's leaven doctrine of Amillennialism, a doctrine started in the 2nd century A.D. by Occult Gnosticism.

One of the LIES of Amillennialism is that since it rejects Christ's future "thousand years" reign that starts at His future return, they thus believe all the wicked are destroyed on the day of Christ's return, and that we go immediately into God's new heavens and a new earth timing. Believing that is against God's written Word, and it's easy to prove it is a leaven doctrine from men that is not written, because I'll give just 2 simple Bible witnesses that easily show Amillennialism is a false doctrine of the devil...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

Jesus said the above to the Church of Philadelphia, one of His elect Churches.

That "synagogue of Satan" represents the greatest enemies of Jesus Christ on earth. Since when have those enemies of Christ ever... bowed at the feet of Christ's elect to worship Him? Never in this present world.

That is about the time AFTER... Christ's future return when He will reign over ALL NATIONS on this earth, making His enemies His footstool like Apostle Paul taught as also with Hebrews 10:13.

That means the WICKED "synagogue of Satan" will STILL EXIST AFTER Christ's future return, and... that they will be MADE TO BOW TO JESUS at the feet of His elect (because Christ's elect will be right next to Jesus in that future "thousand years" reign). Just that fact goes directly against men's false GNOSTIC Amillennialist doctrines.

Here is a 2nd example of the WICKED still existing AFTER Christ's future return. The following Zechariah 14 Scripture covers the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns in the future, and His return to the Mount of Olives bringing all His saints with Him, and then into the time after that, with His future "thousand years" reign with the "rod of iron" over the wicked unsaved, and over all nations on earth...

Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV

Okay, time out. Here is the problem with the word, "Angels." They are messengers.

Yeah, I agree, time out!

Go do more Bible study asking our Heavenly Father through His Son for help in it. You are still missing some major Truths in His Word which is really Bible 101 stuff you should have learned after only about a year of Bible study.