False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

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David in NJ

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I just addressed the nithing burger dynamic of other people transposing irrelevant mess on another's doctrine.
Pure waste of time and borders on dishonesty.
For example; " all postribbers wirship the spaghetti monster" Type of nonsense, and expect them to defend such silly slander.
Mary staying a virgin is another silly abserdity.
Glad you are able to see the absurdity of transposing "secret rapture" into people who never even heard of the silly cliche' outside of those postribbers who apparently made up more rabbit trail irrelevant nonsense.
JESUS is a Post-Tribber - True or False?
 

David in NJ

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The rapture of the Church is secret. No one will see Christ when the Lord comes for the Church but the believers themselves. There would be no need for the deception that there are aliens if the world will see Christ when He returns for the Church. It will be the hour of testing. If the world saw Christ, there would not be much of a test. This is a test of faith in what is not seen.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Here is the Lord coming secretly for the dead in Christ. He comes in the spring at the time of the barley harvest. Only those that are Christs at His coming will hear him. The world will see nothing but clouds and hear nothing but the voice of the turtle dove.

Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;


Here is the Lord coming for the alive that remained. This is the summer wheat harvest which is celebrated at the time of New Wine, the one week Feast of New Wine, that culminates at Tu B'Av. We see the grapes that are tender give a good smell, which would be the 1st fruits of the grape harvest.

Song of Solomon 2

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock,
in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
Jacob had two wives.

How many wives does JESUS have?
 

07-07-07

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The rapture of the Church is secret. No one will see Christ when the Lord comes for the Church but the believers themselves. There would be no need for the deception that there are aliens if the world will see Christ when He returns for the Church. It will be the hour of testing. If the world saw Christ, there would not be much of a test. This is a test of faith in what is not seen.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
I find it interesting that Jesus only mentioned 1 of the 7 churches as being worthy to escape the hour of temptation. Does this mean that only a small portion of the end-time Church will be caught up?
 

The Light

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I find it interesting that Jesus only mentioned 1 of the 7 churches as being worthy to escape the hour of temptation. Does this mean that only a small portion of the end-time Church will be caught up?
I suspect so. At least half of the Church does not believe Jesus comes in an hour they think not. The foolish virgins are not ready when the Messiah comes as they are not watching for Him, they are watching for the Antichrist.
 

David in NJ

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I find it interesting that Jesus only mentioned 1 of the 7 churches as being worthy to escape the hour of temptation. Does this mean that only a small portion of the end-time Church will be caught up?
YES = most Saints will be put to death = Rev 12:11 "they loved not their lives unto death"

The "small portion" of Saints who are caught up is described in 1 Thess 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

NO rapture can take place UNTIL after the Resurrection which ONLY occurs at HIS Second Coming
 

David in NJ

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I suspect so. At least half of the Church does not believe Jesus comes in an hour they think not. The foolish virgins are not ready when the Messiah comes as they are not watching for Him, they are watching for the Antichrist.
As we are instructed by the LORD Jesus Christ = Matthew 24:15-22

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
 

Timtofly

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The rapture of the Church is secret. No one will see Christ when the Lord comes for the Church but the believers themselves. There would be no need for the deception that there are aliens if the world will see Christ when He returns for the Church. It will be the hour of testing. If the world saw Christ, there would not be much of a test. This is a test of faith in what is not seen.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Here is the Lord coming secretly for the dead in Christ. He comes in the spring at the time of the barley harvest. Only those that are Christs at His coming will hear him. The world will see nothing but clouds and hear nothing but the voice of the turtle dove.

Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;


Here is the Lord coming for the alive that remained. This is the summer wheat harvest which is celebrated at the time of New Wine, the one week Feast of New Wine, that culminates at Tu B'Av. We see the grapes that are tender give a good smell, which would be the 1st fruits of the grape harvest.

Song of Solomon 2

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock,
in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
Not many people paid attention to the first coming. I think that was the secret coming.

The Second Coming will make believers out of everybody, so then Satan can decieve them like in the Garden of Eden. Offer them a "better government" than the tribulation of God's judgments.
 

The Light

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As we are instructed by the LORD Jesus Christ = Matthew 24:15-22

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:15-22 = talking to the Jews = 2nd harvest at the 6th seal.
 

The Light

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Not many people paid attention to the first coming. I think that was the secret coming.

You would be thinking wrong.
The Second Coming will make believers out of everybody, so then Satan can decieve them like in the Garden of Eden. Offer them a "better government" than the tribulation of God's judgments.
When Jesus comes at the 6th seal it will be to gather the believers and it will be too late for the non believers. Yes, they will see the Lord in the clouds, but door will be shut. And wrath will begin.
 

David in NJ

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Matthew 24:15-22 = talking to the Jews = 2nd harvest at the 6th seal.
He is speaking to His Bride and all who belong to Him = John 3:27-29

You have fallen from the Truth when you separate the Body of Christ to form an idol.


This is what JESUS said to the Jews = Matthew 23:37-39

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate;
for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”
 

rebuilder 454

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JESUS is a Post-Tribber
Yes
On the white horses.
With the saints.
The Rapture is pretrib as Jesus depicted.
Omissions are your friend to your assumptions.
True eschatology is scripture interpreting scripture.
You will always be at a loss and never reconcile the pretrib rapture verses BY JESUS, while clinging to omissions.
But it is your paradise.
 

rebuilder 454

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He is speaking to His Bride and all who belong to Him = John 3:27-29

You have fallen from the Truth when you separate the Body of Christ to form an idol.


This is what JESUS said to the Jews = Matthew 23:37-39

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate;
for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”
The setting is 100%Jewish and Israel in some of those verses.
AD 70 was partial fulfilment.
 

rebuilder 454

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The rapture of the Church is secret. No one will see Christ when the Lord comes for the Church but the believers themselves. There would be no need for the deception that there are aliens if the world will see Christ when He returns for the Church. It will be the hour of testing. If the world saw Christ, there would not be much of a test. This is a test of faith in what is not seen.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Here is the Lord coming secretly for the dead in Christ. He comes in the spring at the time of the barley harvest. Only those that are Christs at His coming will hear him. The world will see nothing but clouds and hear nothing but the voice of the turtle dove.

Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;


Here is the Lord coming for the alive that remained. This is the summer wheat harvest which is celebrated at the time of New Wine, the one week Feast of New Wine, that culminates at Tu B'Av. We see the grapes that are tender give a good smell, which would be the 1st fruits of the grape harvest.

Song of Solomon 2

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock,
in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
Mat 25
The 10 virgin parable is the rapture.
Half the church left behind.
Maybe "secret" to the world that is asleep at the moment of the rapture.
Not secret to the world that witnesses it during the day.
 

David in NJ

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The setting is 100%Jewish and Israel in some of those verses.
AD 70 was partial fulfilment.
The setting for JESUS to come into the world was thru the Jewish People = the lineage of David and Abraham

Does this mean that JESUS was only speaking to the Jews???
 

David in NJ

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Yes
On the white horses.
With the saints.
The Rapture is pretrib as Jesus depicted.
Omissions are your friend to your assumptions.
True eschatology is scripture interpreting scripture.
You will always be at a loss and never reconcile the pretrib rapture verses BY JESUS, while clinging to omissions.
But it is your paradise.
When did JESUS ever say: "i will rapture my church before the Antichrist"

When did JESUS portray 'pre-trib' rapture?

Truth = "True eschatology is scripture interpreting scripture" = you need to submit to this Truth
 

The Light

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Mat 25
The 10 virgin parable is the rapture.
Half the church left behind.
Maybe "secret" to the world that is asleep at the moment of the rapture.
Not secret to the world that witnesses it during the day.
The world will believe the aliens have come as that is the lie that is prepared.

Those believers that are watching for the antichrist and not watching for the Lord as we have been instructed will know that the door is shut.
They will know they should have listened to the Word of God and not played the fool, speaking against the Word and against the truth. They will be in the hour of temptation.
 
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rebuilder 454

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When did JESUS ever say: "i will rapture my church before the Antichrist"

When did JESUS portray 'pre-trib' rapture?

Truth = "True eschatology is scripture interpreting scripture" = you need to submit to this Truth
just omit the pretrib rapture verses that I posted.
It is JESUS declaring them.
None of them REMOTELY agrees with your rapture assumptions.
That is why you never get specific.
Just one broad generality after another.
 

rebuilder 454

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YES = most Saints will be put to death = Rev 12:11 "they loved not their lives unto death"

The "small portion" of Saints who are caught up is described in 1 Thess 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

NO rapture can take place UNTIL after the Resurrection which ONLY occurs at HIS Second Coming
Uh, it says every man , woman and child receives the mark.
But change it around as you can not accept scripture.
Then change rev 14 because your doctrine needs the dead in Christ raised after the Gathering of rev 14.
Or change 1 thes 4, to read the gathering of the living of rev 14 DO PRECEDE the dead in christ ( as your doctrine erroneously suggests)

Psssst....which is impossible
 

The Light

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When did JESUS ever say: "i will rapture my church before the Antichrist"

When did JESUS portray 'pre-trib' rapture?

Truth = "True eschatology is scripture interpreting scripture" = you need to submit to this Truth
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

There are two raptures.

Jesus is the door. When the door is open, His sheep hear His voice and enter through the door.

John 10
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


When the rapture of the Church happens, His people will hear His voice. They are watching and waiting for the coming of the Lord. After the rapture of the Church, the first fold, other people not of this first fold will hear His voice. There will be a second fold or rapture as the 144,000 first fruits are the first fruits of the second fold or rapture. At the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal the Church will be gathered from heaven and there will be a gathering from the earth, and all will return to heaven as one fold. Then the marriage supper happens. Then Christ returns with the armies of heaven.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


You can't even figure out the difference between the Lord Himself coming and the Lord sending His angels. Why, I don't know. It seems to come down to some see, some don't. If all could see, there would be no foolish virgins.
 

rebuilder 454

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I find it interesting that Jesus only mentioned 1 of the 7 churches as being worthy to escape the hour of temptation. Does this mean that only a small portion of the end-time Church will be caught up?
Jesus depicted the rapture gathering as roughly half the church. Half stays behind and refuses the mark, and are martyred.