False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[rebuilder 454]

Jacob had two wives.

How many wives does JESUS have?

David is the forerunner of Jesus and he had many wives

 

[rebuilder 454]

NOPE

The Bride of Christ/His Church does not get raptured until His Coming and ONLY AFTER the Resurrection.
Gospel, 1 Thess ch4, 2 Thess ch2, 1 John ch2 & ch3, Rev ch6 & ch19, Daniel ch9 & ch12 ALL AGREE

There are no pre-trib rapture declarations or prophecies in the Holy Scriptures.

If there were, yourself, others and myself would of posted them.

Again, rev 14 makes your assumption impossible. Your doctrine is so poorly thought out, that it has the read in Christ raised AFTER the gathering of the living in rev 14

 

[David in NJ]

just omit the pretrib rapture verses that I posted.
It is JESUS declaring them.
None of them REMOTELY agrees with your rapture assumptions.
That is why you never get specific.
Just one broad generality after another.

Post # please

 

[07-07-07]

I suspect so. At least half of the Church does not believe Jesus comes in an hour they think not. The foolish virgins are not ready when the Messiah comes as they are not watching for Him, they are watching for the Antichrist.

There was something special about the Church of Philadelphia for sure, and it wasn't because the members were simply "watching".

 

[David in NJ]

I suspect so. At least half of the Church does not believe Jesus comes in an hour they think not. The foolish virgins are not ready when the Messiah comes as they are not watching for Him, they are watching for the Antichrist.

Silly Rabbit, Scripture is for Kids!

Genesis, OT Prophet Daniel, JESUS, the Apostles and Revelation all say that the Antichrist comes BEFORE the Second Coming.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes
On the white horses.
With the saints.
The Rapture is pretrib as Jesus depicted.
Omissions are your friend to your assumptions.
True eschatology is scripture interpreting scripture.
You will always be at a loss and never reconcile the pretrib rapture verses BY JESUS, while clinging to omissions.
But it is your paradise.

Rev ch19 is Post-Trib

1 Thessalonians 3:13
Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you. 12And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, 13so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

 

[The Light]

Rev ch19 is Post-Trib

1 Thessalonians 3:13
Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you. 12And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, 13so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal coming of Jesus, so yes Revelation 19 is not only post trib but it is at the end of wrath.

 

[David in NJ]

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal coming of Jesus, so yes Revelation 19 is not only post trib but it is at the end of wrath.

The Seals are a 'show casing' and gives us a view of what will take place.

YES, the 6th Seal declares the Second Coming as does other parts of Revelation as well.

The Final 'revealing' of the LORD'S Second Coming is ch19

NOTICE = Rev ch18 is the LAST CALL to the Saints to flee before Judgment, AFTER ch18 is the LORD'S Return.

 

[Timtofly]

NOTICE = Rev ch18 is the LAST CALL to the Saints to flee before Judgment, AFTER ch 18 is the LORD'S Return.

So practice being Lot's wife and come out of Sodom at the last second and get turned into a pillar of salt....

How about Abraham who came out of the world decades prior to the destruction.....

You do realize that at the point of Revelation 18, the only way to come out is to chop your head off?

Can you not see that those who had the victory over Satan and the beast, never partook of this empire to begin with? Abraham never moved into Sodom, but was victorious over all that Sodom had to offer. Abraham was never raptured out of Sodom. One is to come out of the world way before the world got to the condition of Revelation 18. And those who waited only left by being beheaded. The only thing going for those beheaded, was that they were no longer in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

 

[ewq1938]

The Seals are a 'show casing' and gives us a view of what will take place.

YES, the 6th Seal declares the Second Coming as does other parts of Revelation as well.

The Final 'revealing' of the LORD'S Second Coming is ch19

Right. The 6th seal is like popping in a DVD showing the second coming happening and watching it. It isn't actually happening right then, it's just a video playback of the future event. Thinking it happens then makes someone invent multiple comings when there is one, and has the second coming out of proper chronological order.

 

[David in NJ]

Right. The 6th seal is like popping in a DVD showing the second coming happening and watching it. It isn't actually happening right then, it's just a video playback of the future event. Thinking it happens then makes someone invent multiple comings when there is one, and has the second coming out of proper chronological order.

There are some really great inventors on here of late.

However, the LORD holds the Patent on Truth = Proverbs 30:5-6 & Revelation 22:18-20

The mind is a like a light bulb, but we need the Holy Spirit to Power it UP.

 

[Keraz]

Jesus depicted the rapture gathering as roughly half the church. Half stays behind and refuses the mark, and are martyred.

Yes; and we can see from Revelation 12 what happens to each half:
1/ Revelation 12:6 & 14
2/ Revelation 12:17

The half of the Christians who did stand strong in their faith during the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster and refused to agree to a treaty with the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt, [as described in Daniel 9:27, 11:32, & Zechariah 14:2] will be taken to a place of safety on earth.

The other half must remain in the holy Land and face persecution, many will be killed, but it will be their souls which Jesus Returns with and resurrects them. Revelation 20:4
ALL the rest of the dead must wait until after the Millennium, for Judgment. Rev 20:11-15

Regarding the place of safety, it cannot be construed as being in heaven:
Revelation 13-14 says when the 'dragon' is thrown to the earth, he chases after them. Then God gives them the means to go to a place in the wilderness and looks after them, for the next three and a half years.

Every believer in a 'rapture to heaven;, pre, mid or post Trib, should seriously consider these truths.
I am sure that the Lord will reward those who have the moral fortitude to overcome the blandishments of the false rapture to heaven theory. It simply will not happen and why should it? God would have to apologise to every martyr since Stephen for allowing them to be cruelly murdered and then whisks away todays Church! Without any testing? Impossible!

 

[Keraz]

Right. The 6th seal is like popping in a DVD showing the second coming happening and watching it. It isn't actually happening right then, it's just a video playback of the future event. Thinking it happens then makes someone invent multiple comings when there is one, and has the second coming out of proper chronological order.

Another load of nonsense!
The Sixth Seal will be the disaster which commences the Prophesied end time events. It is vividly described in over 100 Prophesies and they make clear that the Lord will not be seen then.
The Seventh Seal; is a time gap of about 20 years

ONLY when all the seals are removed can a scroll be unrolled and what is written in it, can then take place.

 

[David in NJ]

There are some really great inventors on here of late.

David is the forerunner of Jesus and he had many wives

This is true.

David also committed adultery and had Bathsheba's husband murdered to cover it up.

JESUS follows in David's footsteps???

When JESUS was a young boy and He read the Torah, do you think He said to Himself: "Boy, I want to be like King David and have many wives"

 

[ewq1938]

Another load of nonsense!

Nope. The seals are visions of the future shown to John. They weren't events happening when the seals were opened. All the seals were also opened by Christ after he first acsended which is why at first he wasn't found and why he is described as a slain Lamb...because he had died as that symbolic Lamb not long before the opening of all the seals.

The 6th seal does DESCRIBE a world wide disaster but it does not take place until the 7th trump.

 

[Keraz]

Nope. The seals are visions of the future shown to John. They weren't events happening when the seals were opened. All the seals were also opened by Christ after he first acsended which is why at first he wasn't found and why he is described as a slain Lamb...because he had died as that symbolic Lamb not long before the opening of all the seals.

The 6th seal does DESCRIBE a world wide disaster but it does not take place until the 7th trump.

I regard this theory as playing fast and loose with what the Bible plainly says.
As Jesus removes each Seal, what is described for each one, then takes place. He removed the first Five Seals when He ascended to heaven, Revelation 5:7 Proved by the wars, famines plagues and economic disasters the world has experienced since then. Confirmed by the Fifth Seal martyrs, from Stephen and still being added to today.

What happens at the Seventh Trumpet, Revelation 11:15-19, is a reference back to the terrible Day of the Lords wrath, not when it happens.
Also referred to in Revelation 14:14-20
There will be only one Day when the Lord will change the world, affecting everyone. The GT events are directed against those who take the mark of the 'beast'.

 

[The Light]

The Seals are a 'show casing' and gives us a view of what will take place.

The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus for a harvest. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Then there is a great multitude in heaven BEFORE the wrath of God.

YES, the 6th Seal declares the Second Coming as does other parts of Revelation as well.

The 6th seal is the second coming when Jesus remains in the clouds. We see that in Revelation 14. We also see it is BEFORE wrath. This makes you belief TOTALLY AND COMPLETE IMPOSSIBLE.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

The Final 'revealing' of the LORD'S Second Coming is ch19

Jesus is revealed at the second coming. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord at the 6th seal. There is a great multitude in heaven as the wrath of God begins when the trumpets are blown.

After Jesus comes with the armies of heaven in Rev 19, He will set His feet on the mount of Olives and set up His kingdom. This is the second advent when Jesus returns to earth.

You have to be blind not to understand this. And I am convinced that the foolish virgins are blind. There is no other explanation for this total lack of understanding. You better get it together and wake up soon.

NOTICE = Rev ch18 is the LAST CALL to the Saints to flee before Judgment, AFTER ch18 is the LORD'S Return.

And yet you are unable to understand that Revelation 18 occurs before the 5th seal. Not much chance you will understand that, though the Word is clear.

 

[ewq1938]

What happens at the Seventh Trumpet, Revelation 11:15-19, is a reference back to the terrible Day of the Lords wrath, not when it happens.

That's backwards. The 6th seal is a description of that day, but does not happen then.
The 7th trump is when that day of wrath begins, not a reference back to it happening earlier.

 

[The Light]

I regard this theory as playing fast and loose with what the Bible plainly says.
As Jesus removes each Seal, what is described for each one, then takes place.

Fact.

He removed the first Five Seals when He ascended to heaven, Revelation 5:7

If the seals are open.........it just happened.

Proved by the wars, famines plagues and economic disasters the world has experienced since then.

The 7 seals are the 70th week of Daniel. The seals will be opened when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the SECRET, PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE............TO HEAVEN.

Confirmed by the Fifth Seal martyrs, from Stephen and still being added to today.

The 5th seal is the great tribulation.

What happens at the Seventh Trumpet, Revelation 11:15-19, is a reference back to the terrible Day of the Lords wrath, not when it happens.
Also referred to in Revelation 14:14-20

Revelation 14:14-16 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, BEFORE wrath. As we see in Rev 14:19 wrath has not begun.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Conversely, Revelation 11 when the 7th trumpet blows, that is the END OF WRATH.

There will be only one Day when the Lord will change the world, affecting everyone.

Yes. the 1000 year day of the Lord.

The GT events are directed against those who take the mark of the 'beast'.

Goes without saying.

 

[The Light]

That's backwards. The 6th seal is a description of that day, but does not happen then.
The 7th trump is when that day of wrath begins, not a reference back to it happening earlier.

If wrath begins at the 7th trumpet, how come Christ has set up His kingdom on earth at the 7th trumpet.

What you claim is impossible.