False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[David in NJ]

Just because Let brotherly love continue. 2Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels. 3Remember the prisoners as if chained with them—those who are mistreated—since you yourselves are in the body also.the church proclaims the gospel does not mean an angel can't. The church is in the trib, the OD and all relevant parts of Rev show this. The trib is trib against the church. That is the entire purpose of the trib. If there is no church present, trib cannot even take place.

Once the fallen angels are thrown to earth, the Holy angels will have new assignments on earth as well.

This is now and will only increase = Hebrews 13:1-3

Let brotherly love continue. Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.
Remember the prisoners as if chained with them—those who are mistreated—since you yourselves are in the body also.

 

[The Light]

Second question: Why is the Book of Revelation addressed to the seven churches, yet there is no further mention of them after Chapter three, except briefly at the end (Rev. 22:16)?

Because the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened as we see in Revelation 5

 

[The Light]

Just because the church proclaims the gospel does not mean an angel can't. The church is in the trib, the OD and all relevant parts of Rev show this. The trib is trib against the church. That is the entire purpose of the trib. If there is no church present, trib cannot even take place.

The tribulation is about the Jews as the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

 

[07-07-07]

Because the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened as we see in Revelation 5

Yes, I believe so, but the question was for post-tribulation teachers.

 

[ewq1938]

The tribulation is about the Jews as the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

Nope. The trib is a war against Christians. This is confirmed by Christ in Matthew 24 and various parts of Rev. The Jews as in Judaism or atheists are not targets of the beast in the trib. Only Christians are targeted. The rest take the mark and worship the beast.

 

[07-07-07]

The tribulation is about the Jews as the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

Yes, and the "covenant with many" is almost certainly not the U.N. seven-year accelerated plan for SDGs for the world that is going on right now at the U.N. meeting. Many Christians are pushing this idea. To the contrary, the "covenant with many" involves Israel directly and will fulfill the 70th week spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

 

[David in NJ]

Because the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened as we see in Revelation 5

NOPE

The Bride of Christ/His Church does not get raptured until His Coming and the Resurrection.

Gospel, 1 Thess ch4, 2 Thess ch2, 1 John ch2 & ch3, Rev ch6 & ch19, Daniel ch12 ALL AGREE

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, I believe so, but the question was for post-tribulation teachers.

NOPE

The Bride of Christ/His Church does not get raptured until His Coming and ONLY AFTER the Resurrection.
Gospel, 1 Thess ch4, 2 Thess ch2, 1 John ch2 & ch3, Rev ch6 & ch19, Daniel ch9 & ch12 ALL AGREE

There are no pre-trib rapture declarations or prophecies in the Holy Scriptures.

If there were, yourself, others and myself would of posted them.

 

[The Light]

Yes, and the "covenant with many" is almost certainly not the U.N. seven-year accelerated plan for SDGs for the world that is going on right now at the U.N. meeting. Many Christians are pushing this idea. To the contrary, the "covenant with many" involves Israel directly and will fulfill the 70th week spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

I think it will be the SDG strengthening of the covenant. If it's not, the physical timeline says it must happen NOW. So your covenant with Israel must happen now.

 

[The Light]

NOPE

The Bride of Christ/His Church does not get raptured until His Coming and the Resurrection.

Gospel, 1 Thess ch4, 2 Thess ch2, 1 John ch2 & ch3, Rev ch6 & ch19, Daniel ch12 ALL AGREE

That seems to be what most of the foolish virgins think.

 

[David in NJ]

That seems to be what most of the foolish virgins think.

Dim light has spoken.

 

[Timtofly]

@Timtofly says: "The Second Coming happens pre-Jacob's trouble."

That is NOT found in scripture.

What is not found? The Second Coming or Jacob's Trouble?

 

[Hobie]

Will UFO's be the world's explanation of the Rapture of Jesus' Church? What was once conspiracy talk and scoffed at is now mainstream news. Things are really coming together with such convergence of end-time events.

"MEXICO CITY, Sept 13 (Reuters) - Mexican lawmakers heard testimony that "we are not alone" in the universe and saw the alleged remains of non-human beings in an extraordinary hearing marking the Latin American country's first congressional event on UFOs.In the hearing on Tuesday on FANI, the Spanish acronym for what are usually now termed Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP), politicians were shown two artifacts that Mexican journalist and long-time UFO enthusiast Jaime Maussan claimed were the corpses of extraterrestrials." - Mexican Congress holds hearing on UFOs featuring purported 'alien' bodies

That is something which we will have to see if they try, but we know Christ warned of 'false christs' and 'prophets' and the devil still has much power and can present himself as a 'angel of light'..

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Second question: Why is the Book of Revelation addressed to the seven churches, yet there is no further mention of them after Chapter three, except briefly at the end (Rev. 22:16)?

Just because the word ekklesia isn’t shown, doesn’t mean the church is absent.

1. 5th seal martyrs are part of the church
2. The innumerable with palm branches are part of the church
3. The saints are part of the church

The absence of ekklesia doesn’t prove the church is absent. It is a terrible example Pre-TB attempts to use to prove their point because it disproves their own belief the elders are us since the word ekklesia is also absent from Ch 4.

How about this. Ekklesia isn’t found in Mark, Luke, John, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, Jude and not till Ch 16 in Romans. So all those books don’t refer to the church too?

What day do the scriptures say is the judgment and resurrection?

 

[Hobie]

NOPE

The Bride of Christ/His Church does not get raptured until His Coming and ONLY AFTER the Resurrection.
Gospel, 1 Thess ch4, 2 Thess ch2, 1 John ch2 & ch3, Rev ch6 & ch19, Daniel ch9 & ch12 ALL AGREE

There are no pre-trib rapture declarations or prophecies in the Holy Scriptures.

If there were, yourself, others and myself would of posted them.

Amen, my brother, give the truth with power. Scripture is clear, the only rapture is at the resurrection of the saints from their graves who are joined with the saints who are alive, and takes place at the second coming of Jesus.
John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So don't be deceived by the false doctrine of the Secret Rapture.The Second Coming will be seen by everyone so its kind of hard to have a "Secret Rapture" with everyone watching. So how will Christ return and how will the Second Coming unfold, well lets start at how he ascended:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'. Acts 1:9-11

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him. Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory. Matthew 25:31

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

Jesus return in the clouds will be visible to everyone on earth and will be any kind of secret, or only seen or experience by a select few. Christ also warned against false comings of Christ that would not be universally visible.

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:26,27

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

Jesus return in the clouds will great a audible sound so that everyone on earth know of his coming, not just a select few.

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God... I Thessalonians 4:16

Jesus will return in the clouds while everyone sees and hears his Second Coming and the faithful, those that had died and those alive will be picked up and meet him in mid-air in the cloud of his angels. The redeemed (elect) will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky, the verses make clear it is not a secret rapture.

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

And He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24:31 NIV

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth - His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psalm 50:5

The living righteous are changed in moments at the last trumpet. We cannot go to heaven with pain, sickness, disease, we will be transformed in a instance, all these things will be taken away. Our bodies will be changed into the likeness of His, incorruptible, and changed to immortal.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory.' 1 Corinthians 15: 51-54

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body... Philippians 3:20, 21

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him . . and every man that hath this hope in Him, purifieth himself, even as He is pure. 1 John 3:2,3

He will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth; for the Lord has spoken it. And it shall be said in that day: 'Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the Lord; we have waited for Him; we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.' Isaiah 25:8,

Pretrib rapture adherent here.
The first time i heard " secret rapture" was a postribber transposing that onto the debate as some make believe pivitol talking point.
Has no traction and is some desperate attempt to move the debate into some rabbit trail.
Just plain silly

 

[David in NJ]

Pretrib rapture adherent here.
The first time i heard " secret rapture" was a postribber transposing that onto the debate as some make believe pivitol talking point.
Has no traction and is some desperate attempt to move the debate into some rabbit trail.
Just plain silly

The 'secret rapture' is on the same level/basis/foundation as 'Mary remained a virgin'

 

[rebuilder 454]

The 'secret rapture' is on the same level/basis/foundation as 'Mary remained a virgin'

I just addressed the nithing burger dynamic of other people transposing irrelevant mess on another's doctrine.
Pure waste of time and borders on dishonesty.
For example; " all postribbers wirship the spaghetti monster" Type of nonsense, and expect them to defend such silly slander.
Mary staying a virgin is another silly abserdity.
Glad you are able to see the absurdity of transposing "secret rapture" into people who never even heard of the silly cliche' outside of those postribbers who apparently made up more rabbit trail irrelevant nonsense.

 

[The Light]

Pretrib rapture adherent here.
The first time i heard " secret rapture" was a postribber transposing that onto the debate as some make believe pivitol talking point.
Has no traction and is some desperate attempt to move the debate into some rabbit trail.
Just plain silly

The rapture of the Church is secret. No one will see Christ when the Lord comes for the Church but the believers themselves. There would be no need for the deception that there are aliens if the world will see Christ when He returns for the Church. It will be the hour of testing. If the world saw Christ, there would not be much of a test. This is a test of faith in what is not seen.

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Here is the Lord coming secretly for the dead in Christ. He comes in the spring at the time of the barley harvest. Only those that are Christs at His coming will hear him. The world will see nothing but clouds and hear nothing but the voice of the turtle dove.

Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

Here is the Lord coming for the alive that remained. This is the summer wheat harvest which is celebrated at the time of New Wine, the one week Feast of New Wine, that culminates at Tu B'Av. We see the grapes that are tender give a good smell, which would be the 1st fruits of the grape harvest.

Song of Solomon 2

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

 

[David in NJ]

I just addressed the nithing burger dynamic of other people transposing irrelevant mess on another's doctrine.
Pure waste of time and borders on dishonesty.
For example; " all postribbers wirship the spaghetti monster" Type of nonsense, and expect them to defend such silly slander.
Mary staying a virgin is another silly abserdity.
Glad you are able to see the absurdity of transposing "secret rapture" into people who never even heard of the silly cliche' outside of those postribbers who apparently made up more rabbit trail irrelevant nonsense.

JESUS is a Post-Tribber