Federal Judge Rules National Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional

[pastorlesofm]

Updated April 15, 2010


Federal judge rules Day of Prayer unconstitutional


AP

MADISON, Wis.

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A federal judge in Wisconsin ruled the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional Thursday, saying the day amounts to a call for religious action.

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A federal judge in Wisconsin ruled the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional Thursday, saying the day amounts to a call for religious action.

U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb wrote that the government can no more enact laws supporting a day of prayer than it can encourage citizens to fast during Ramadan, attend a synagogue or practice magic.

"In fact, it is because the nature of prayer is so personal and can have such a powerful effect on a community that the government may not use its authority to try to influence an individual's decision whether and when to pray," Crabb wrote.

Congress established the day in 1952 and in 1988 set the first Thursday in May as the day for presidents to issue proclamations asking Americans to pray. The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Madison-based group of atheists and agnostics, filed a lawsuit against the federal government



in 2008 arguing the day violated the separation of church and state.

President Barack Obama's administration has countered that the statute simply acknowledges the role of religion in the United States. Obama issued a proclamation last year but did not hold public events with religious leaders as former President George W. Bush had done.

Crabb wrote that her ruling shouldn't be considered a bar to any prayer days until all appeals are exhausted. U.S. Justice Department attorneys who represented the federal government in the case were reviewing the ruling Thursday afternoon, agency spokesman Charles Miller said. He declined further comment.

Obama spokesman Matt Lehrich said in an e-mail to The Associated Press the president still plans to issue a proclamation for the next prayer day.

"As he did last year, President Obama intends to recognize a National Day of Prayer," Lehrich said.

The American Center for Law and Justice, which represented 31 members of Congress who joined the federal government as defendants, called Crabb's ruling flawed and promised to appeal.

"It is unfortunate that this court failed to understand that a day set aside for prayer for the country represents a time-honored tradition that embraces the First Amendment, not violates it," ACLJ Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow said in a statement.

The Alliance Defense Fund, an Arizona-based group of Christian lawyers, issued a statement saying Crabb's ruling undermines American tradition dating back to the nation's birth.

Freedom From Religion Foundation attorney Richard Bolton didn't immediately return a message seeking comment.

Crabb wrote that her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer. She noted government involvement in prayer may be constitutional if the conduct serves a "significant secular purpose" and doesn't amount to a call for religious action. But the National Day of Prayer crosses that line, she wrote. "It goes beyond mere 'acknowledgment' of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context," she wrote. "In this instance, the government has taken sides on a matter that must be left to individual conscience."

 

[Brother Mike]

So, is this a good or bad thing??????????

I am not sure how to vote.

I don't see the separation of Church and Government as a bad thing. It was designed to prevent the Government from forcing anyone into a religious tradition according to what pleased the Government.

It was however not designed to remove the word of the Lord from anything, such as prayer from Schools, and work places. People have conveniently forgotten why the separation was put in the first place, and have wrongly misued what was really intended.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[gumby]

Its happening to fast for the unchristian world to comprehend but beleive me when i say this the antichrist is coming and it is the work of the NWO. The NWO as a whole cult is responsible for this tragesty there the ones that will strike next and try to take the word of god out of siciety. Well i say let the vipers strike god will consume all that offends with his angry wrath of fire and indignation. God is not pleased and these people may be getting ahead now but mark my words god will make sure they get there ounishment in hell if they dont repent.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Gumby, I fully understand where your coming from. Take the time to look at what the Judge said though. She does not want to go down the route were people are forced to observe a prayer day, and have it enforced by the Government. Now, she could just be saying that to cover up the fact she does not believe in God, or she may be a Christian. The point is we don't need Muslim Holidays being observed by our Government, and we don't needs Satan's day. (We got Halloween, but not observed by Government)

To keep other things out of our system, in a fee society, we must also bar the Road the bad things use to get there. That was my concern before we go and hang this judge.

Now, I could be wrong in my thinking, but with what information I have and understand, this is where I currently stand, until someone gives more light here.

Be Blessed.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[gumby]

Brother Gumby, I fully understand where your coming from. Take the time to look at what the Judge said though. She does not want to go down the route were people are forced to observe a prayer day, and have it enforced by the Government. Now, she could just be saying that to cover up the fact she does not believe in God, or she may be a Christian. The point is we don't need Muslim Holidays being observed by our Government, and we don't needs Satan's day. (We got Halloween, but not observed by Government)

To keep other things out of our system, in a fee society, we must also bar the Road the bad things use to get there. That was my concern before we go and hang this judge.

Now, I could be wrong in my thinking, but with what information I have and understand, this is where I currently stand, until someone gives more light here.

Be Blessed.

Jesus Is Lord

I agree the people that dont want to observe the pray day or of another religion should not be involved. But lets look at the issue here who is forcing anyone into anything the answer is nobody is forcing anything on anyone. Although i do think this should be set up as a christian volentary event. If the muslims or budhists or whoever wants to have there day let them have it on another day problem solved. None the less though i assure you our government is not christian and is not on our side like i say the illuminati is controlling evrything to lead into this new world order and probibly the whole 2012 hype. And in case you dont know what the illuminati is just look at the pyramid on the back of a one doller bill. Look at the pyramid and notice the sunburst around it with the eye. And the eye to them represents the false eye of horus some weird egyptian false god. And then compare that the 90% of our companies its nothing but false sun worship.

 

[Brother Mike]

Although i do think this should be set up as a christian volentary event. If the muslims or budhists or whoever wants to have there day let them have it on another day problem solved.

Well, here is my issue with that. A day that the government recognizes as a true holiday. Now, do we want Muslims to have a day recognized by our own government?? Governments that gave place to false gods in the OT did not do so well. Should we just not cut everyone off? Our Government can do better when it comes to Jesus, I agree with that, I am not so sure about the rest.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[gumby]

Well, here is my issue with that. A day that the government recognizes as a true holiday. Now, do we want Muslims to have a day recognized by our own government?? Governments that gave place to false gods in the OT did not do so well. Should we just not cut everyone off? Our Government can do better when it comes to Jesus, I agree with that, I am not so sure about the rest.

Jesus Is Lord

My reply to that is look at the muslim president we have elected. He claims america as a nation of many religions althogh its a nation under god always has been always will be. Do i want the government to recognize the day yes but by having the day we get people in there that are of 1000 diffrent religions. Those people are going to gripe and nag that there religion or there whatever false god and or godess isnt going to be recognized. So my point here is just have two prayer days one for the christian that loves and fears god and one for all the other fruitcakes that complain. Thats my point. Beleive me im christian and love christ but our enemy is always lurking and plotting.

 

[gator347]

My reply to that is look at the Muslim president we have elected. He claims america as a nation of many religions althogh its a nation under god always has been always will be. Do i want the government to recognize the day yes but by having the day we get people in there that are of 1000 diffrent religions. Those people are going to gripe and nag that there religion or there whatever false god and or godess isnt going to be recognized. So my point here is just have two prayer days one for the christian that loves and fears god and one for all the other fruitcakes that complain. Thats my point. Beleive me im christian and love christ but our enemy is always lurking and plotting.

The National Day of Prayer does not require anyone to pray. It is non-denominational and is open to ALL religions. Here in is lies the problem. America was based on an individual's freedom. We ALL own the public lands. This means that ALL religions or non-religions can use them. That being said, Christian's have every right to put religious symbols on public property and to use those lands but so do Muslims, Jews, Wickens...... We also have a right to discuss our faith as do others. We ALL also have the right to believe and preach our faith without persecution. But that is ok. In the LIGHT of day, Christianity shines true.

The worst thing that can happen is to remove ALL spirituality. Why do you think that is the first thing a repressive regime does?

 

[revdw76]

So, is this a good or bad thing??????????

I am not sure how to vote.

I don't see the separation of Church and Government as a bad thing. It was designed to prevent the Government from forcing anyone into a religious tradition according to what pleased the Government.

It was however not designed to remove the word of the Lord from anything, such as prayer from Schools, and work places. People have conveniently forgotten why the separation was put in the first place, and have wrongly misued what was really intended.

Jesus Is Lord

I agree Mike. What drives me nuts is the zealots that won't even let you say God bless you after a sneeze in a school or public building without threats to call the cops and the aclu.

 

[pastorlesofm]

Its happening to fast for the unchristian world to comprehend but beleive me when i say this the antichrist is coming and it is the work of the NWO. The NWO as a whole cult is responsible for this tragesty there the ones that will strike next and try to take the word of god out of siciety. Well i say let the vipers strike god will consume all that offends with his angry wrath of fire and indignation. God is not pleased and these people may be getting ahead now but mark my words god will make sure they get there ounishment in hell if they dont repent.

Gumby , I agree with you whole heartidly, with no doubt.

 

[pastorlesofm]

Wasn't it the United States Supreme Court who gave the opinion that the United States is indeed a Christian Nation? The date of that ruling has slipped my mine at the moment. Did not President Abraham Lincoln declare a National Day of Thanksgiving? Wasn't it President Dwight David Eisenhower who signed a Bill from Congress to add "One Nation Under God" in our Pledge of Alliegence? Why does Arlington National Cementary consist of so many Christian Crosses on the graves of those who so bravely defended this Nation? At every session of the US Supreme Court it is opened with "God Bless This Honorable Court". How many times does an American see the Motto of our Country "In God We Trust"? The very first session of the Continental Congress was began with Prayer and also it was stated that every session of both Houses of Congress open with prayer and a chaplain be appointed to each House. Also if we look at the signing of many of our "Founding Documents" one sees they are signed "In the Year of Our Lord."
It is recorded in a biography of Thomas Jefferson, that he attended Sunday worship services and also Wednesday Prayer in the old Senate Chambers. Who accompanied the worshippers in those services? The United States Military Band. Hmmmmm!
I'd say those who say America is not a Christian Nation have a lot of evidence to the contrary. The US Constitution says the Congress shall not create a religion or church. As the founding fathers did not want another Church of England which was governed by the British Monarch. Look it up, my wording may be wrong but the idea is correct. Separation of Church and State is not in the Constitution. The amendment that is is as I tried to state above. It was misinterpreted and still is unfortunately, began just before prayer was taken out of the schools. Conveint I'd say so. Interpreted like the Abortion issue was misinterpreted through minipulation and lies. This is what brings down the morals of our Nation. I watched them go down in my 66 years of life here in America. Of course we have Satan's Public Relations Firm, Hollywood helping. I do agree with you my brother, who say that we are not far from the anti-Christ being revealed. Look up Christians for Our Redeemer cometh.

 

[gator347]

Wasn't it the United States Supreme Court who gave the opinion that the United States is indeed a Christian Nation? The date of that ruling has slipped my mine at the moment. Did not President Abraham Lincoln declare a National Day of Thanksgiving? Wasn't it President Dwight David Eisenhower who signed a Bill from Congress to add "One Nation Under God" in our Pledge of Alliegence? Why does Arlington National Cementary consist of so many Christian Crosses on the graves of those who so bravely defended this Nation? At every session of the US Supreme Court it is opened with "God Bless This Honorable Court". How many times does an American see the Motto of our Country "In God We Trust"? The very first session of the Continental Congress was began with Prayer and also it was stated that every session of both Houses of Congress open with prayer and a chaplain be appointed to each House. Also if we look at the signing of many of our "Founding Documents" one sees they are signed "In the Year of Our Lord."
It is recorded in a biography of Thomas Jefferson, that he attended Sunday worship services and also Wednesday Prayer in the old Senate Chambers. Who accompanied the worshippers in those services? The United States Military Band. Hmmmmm!
I'd say those who say America is not a Christian Nation have a lot of evidence to the contrary. The US Constitution says the Congress shall not create a religion or church. As the founding fathers did not want another Church of England which was governed by the British Monarch. Look it up, my wording may be wrong but the idea is correct. Separation of Church and State is not in the Constitution. The amendment that is is as I tried to state above. It was misinterpreted and still is unfortunately, began just before prayer was taken out of the schools. Conveint I'd say so. Interpreted like the Abortion issue was misinterpreted through minipulation and lies. This is what brings down the morals of our Nation. I watched them go down in my 66 years of life here in America. Of course we have Satan's Public Relations Firm, Hollywood helping. I do agree with you my brother, who say that we are not far from the anti-Christ being revealed. Look up Christians for Our Redeemer cometh.

What is sad is that 80% plus American's claim to be Christian but yet:
We have a 50% divorce rate
We have abortion on demand
We abort 90% Down Syndrome children
We give Gay’s Rights, Minorities Rights, Animal Rights but Christians are “fair game”
Cheating is overlooked
We give “Mover Earth” her own day but we can't talk about WHO created her in the first place
Wake up America. Step–up and be heard. Vote and vote your heart not your pocketbook.
Faith, Family, Fellowship, Duty, Honor, & Country!

 

[pastorlesofm]

What is sad is that 80% plus American's claim to be Christian but yet:
We have a 50% divorce rate
We have abortion on demand
We abort 90% Down Syndrome children
We give Gay’s Rights, Minorities Rights, Animal Rights but Christians are “fair game”
Cheating is overlooked
We give “Mover Earth” her own day but we can't talk about WHO created her in the first place
Wake up America. Step–up and be heard. Vote and vote your heart not your pocketbook.
Faith, Family, Fellowship, Duty, Honor, & Country!

Yes I agree with you, we've got off the path our founding fathers blazed for the United States, with judges making laws from the bench, using liberal views, liberals in Congress and voters voting them into office. For awhile since President Lyndon Johnson we were a "if it makes one feel good, go ahead and do it" society. Christian principles have been poked fun at by the liberal media. Government social services going out of their way to divide up the family structure. limiting aide if the father remains the head of the household. Fathers had to literally move out of their homes for their families to get help. Leaving children with a single parent home. Schools with text books like Mary has two mommies and My Daddy's Roomate. Harry Potter required reading, while any and all reference to Ten Commandments and God removed from the school vocabulary replaced with condoms, abortion without parental consent, but still need parent's consent to give a child an aspirin. Lets not forget the metal detectors children have to go through. I could go on and on. So could most of us here in CB.

 

[Brother Mike]

Well, The Obama Administration is going to attempt to get this ruling reversed.

Gator:

What is sad is that 80% plus American's claim to be Christian but yet:

If everyone that Claimed My Church to be their Church. (Faith Life Church, Pastor Keith Moore, Branson MO) Showed up and was faithful, There would be no way we could possibly hold all of them.

In fact, If everyone that Claimed to be Christians actually went to church on Sundays, and went faithfully to hear the Word of God, then NO CHURCH in town would be able to accommodate all of them.

Something is Wrong somewhere Gator.............

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[01CobraVortech]

Right on Brother Mike. You speak the truth. Where's the hunger for the Word around these parts? Btw, when I get healed I'm going to make a trek up that way to visit your church and thank Brother Keith for his ministry work. Missouri sounds like a nice state.

 

[Brother Mike]

Robster...............

I was standing in the Word supply store (At Church) and met a very old man. He told me that him and his wife use to be Baptist, and his wife had terminal cancer.

He wanted to take his wife out one more time from NY, and visit Branson. They liked the shows and are country folk. (Branson MO is full of things to do, look it up.)

So, they loaded up the RV and came to Branson. While he was in the RV park Bathroom, taking a Wee, wee........ one of our Ushers came up behind him and asked him if he would like to go to church. The man asked what kind of Church and the Usher told him it was like a full gospel church. The Old man being Baptist was not so sure, but the Usher was very nice, and he decided to give it a try.

So, the Old man and his wife came to Church.

The Wife was healed of terminal cancer that morning, and the Old man told me they never went back to NY, but sold their house over the phone, and bought a house in Branson. Him and his wife after four years are still going to church and she is healthy.

98% of our church are not Locals, but people that have come from all over the World to be here.

So, if your serious about a visit....... just let me know, I am sure we can hook you up for a visit.

[email protected]

 

[jerryjohnson]

Robster...............

I was standing in the Word supply store (At Church) and met a very old man. He told me that him and his wife use to be Baptist, and his wife had terminal cancer.

He wanted to take his wife out one more time from NY, and visit Branson. They liked the shows and are country folk. (Branson MO is full of things to do, look it up.)

So, they loaded up the RV and came to Branson. While he was in the RV park Bathroom, taking a Wee, wee........ one of our Ushers came up behind him and asked him if he would like to go to church. The man asked what kind of Church and the Usher told him it was like a full gospel church. The Old man being Baptist was not so sure, but the Usher was very nice, and he decided to give it a try.

So, the Old man and his wife came to Church.

The Wife was healed of terminal cancer that morning, and the Old man told me they never went back to NY, but sold their house over the phone, and bought a house in Branson. Him and his wife after four years are still going to church and she is healthy.

98% of our church are not Locals, but people that have come from all over the World to be here.

So, if your serious about a visit....... just let me know, I am sure we can hook you up for a visit.

[email protected]

Do your ushers often follow people into the washroom. I likely would have told him ....

 

[01CobraVortech]

Robster...............

I was standing in the Word supply store (At Church) and met a very old man. He told me that him and his wife use to be Baptist, and his wife had terminal cancer.

He wanted to take his wife out one more time from NY, and visit Branson. They liked the shows and are country folk. (Branson MO is full of things to do, look it up.)

So, they loaded up the RV and came to Branson. While he was in the RV park Bathroom, taking a Wee, wee........ one of our Ushers came up behind him and asked him if he would like to go to church. The man asked what kind of Church and the Usher told him it was like a full gospel church. The Old man being Baptist was not so sure, but the Usher was very nice, and he decided to give it a try.

So, the Old man and his wife came to Church.

The Wife was healed of terminal cancer that morning, and the Old man told me they never went back to NY, but sold their house over the phone, and bought a house in Branson. Him and his wife after four years are still going to church and she is healthy.

98% of our church are not Locals, but people that have come from all over the World to be here.

So, if your serious about a visit....... just let me know, I am sure we can hook you up for a visit.

[email protected]

Praise God! What a wonderful story! There is something special about Branson and your church. Brother Mike I got the email on file. I'm definitely serious about visiting. Thanks to you, I've been brought out of darkness about healing. Fed my soul and built some serious faith today listening to 4cds and I'm getting some chow for my final one of the night. You have no idea how you and Pastor Moore have changed my life. To live for 12 months with an eye disease that damaged both of my eyes, scarred my corneas, caused severe dry eyes that require constant artificial tear use and to be told by the best opthamologists in America that you had a tough break pal and you just have to live like that...it was crushing. Made me not want to live life anymore. And now I anxiously wait for my healing and I know My Great Physician, My Great Healer will deliver on His promise. I can't even listen to Christian music these days because I get so emotional thinking about how awesome God is and how I cried out for help and he nudged me to check out this insignificant website, No offense Hammerstone. :lol: And here I am for the first time in my life truly understanding this healing truth and learning how to construct the rock solid faith based on scripture. I know i sound like a broken record but I praise God every day for you and your church. And anyone reading this thread, suffering from any illness, needs to talk to you about getting healed. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ for He took so much on our behalf. What love our Lord has for us.

Do your ushers often follow people into the washroom. I likely would have told him ....

:lol:

 

[pastorlesofm]

Do your ushers often follow people into the washroom. I likely would have told him ....

Great Testimony my brother, very much needed in these days of so much doubt, and even a certain fear of faith by both non-believers and some believers. The many churches that claim healing by the Lord no longer exsists . Your church must be what I call a Acts 2 church. Hats off to the leadership of your church. Let's hear more testimonies like this.

 

[Brother Mike]

Pastor Les:

The many churches that claim healing by the Lord no longer exists . Your church must be what I call a Acts 2 church. Hats off to the leadership of your church. Let's hear more testimonies like this.

Robster:

Praise God! What a wonderful story! There is something special about Branson and your church. Brother Mike I got the email on file. I'm definitely serious about visiting. Thanks to you, I've been brought out of darkness about healing.

Thank you Brothers

While we do have several verified (by medical records) healing accounts in my Church. Such as this week someone was healed of HIV (They can't find the antibodies or sign of virus in the Body, and the Doctors are just as stumped.)

I have been looking at healing scriptures for years, long before I even Knew Pastor Keith Moore, who trained for 20 years under Brother Kenneth Hagin (Many in the Church world hate)

I was told my own son would die of Cancer, so he is fine now, and to late to tell me that faith is not important.



Pastor Les:

Our Church is not special, We do have services where we lay hands on the sick, but not very often. Most of it is just teaching the Word. Being Led by the Holy Spirit during service is very important. We are yet at that point where people just get healed by someone's shadow. Then again, whom much is given is much required, look at Ananias and Sapphira... Church's really need to think about just how much they want that power to run in their church.

What we Teach Pastor Les is what a typical Word of Faith Church Teaches (Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, and so on.)

1) God is always on our side, and is not alien.

Jesus compared God to our Father (Matt 7:11) We are created in God's image, so our way of thinking if kept on the Word, would be very close to how God thinks. We are made after Him. Now, his Understanding is far greater than our own, but not when it comes to EVIL. (Heb 5:14)
Cancer is not a blessing in disguise.
Poverty is not a blessing, it hinders what we would do for God.
So, loosing a child in a Accident many consider something that is God's greater purpose, We consider it a act of the devil who came to kill, steal and destroy. Jesus came that we may have life.

Faith starts were the will of God is known, and God takes no pleasure in cancer or death.

2) Everything that happens is not the will of God.

If you look at Deut 28, we can see that sickness was because of disobedience to God's Word, every sickness known is in there. For disobiedence. It was part of the Curse of the Law, or what happenes if you transgress God's Laws. (Deu 28:61)

So, any sickness is left over from that curse, and does not belong to us. Jesus bore our punishment, and nailed to the cross what we deserved. It can not be the will of God for you to be sick, any more than it can be his will for you to disobey his word which can bring sickness.

3) Remove all the reasons God does not want you healed.

Once you remove all the reasons God will not do something for you, then Victory is yours, and the situation changes.

We look at the Word as spiritual. Something for example like Job, can hurt someones faith. We look at what is going on spiritually.
What happened to Job? Why?

We ask questions, as the Whole Word must line up with every other scripture. Job is not a book by itself.

a) Why would God make a deal with someone that can't tell the truth? (John 8:44)
B) How could God be tempted with Evil?
c) Why did God say this whole thing was without cause, if he did make a deal with the devil? (Job 2:3)
e) Why did God tell Satan not to kill Job, if God and Satan had a deal. Job could not get a chance to blow it, if he was dead.
f) Was Job sacrificing for his kids because he was a good parent or was Job motivated by fear of loss?
g) 58 time we are told to "Fear NOT" 48 times to be of good courage. Job said that just the things he feared came upon him (Job 3:25) There is a connection to fear and Satan, we are told not to give place to the devil. (Eph 4:27)

someone that does not know God, and the Goodness of God will miss these things in Job.

So Pastor Les, that is why we see the things we do, it's not that we are special, but we view God a lot different than a lot of churches.

Be blessed!!!!

Jesus Is Lord.