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Featured Flat earth.

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Jeff Wiebe, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Naomi posted this illustration below some time back. I thought it was good. If the earth is flat does that mean the other planets are flat as well as the sun and the moon?
     
  2. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    5995_68fe2fbf2f88000b2f587dce16318921.jpg
     
  3. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which can not fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation before investigation." --Edmund Spencer

    Everyone initially reacts in the same manner whenever the subject of Flat Earth (FE) is mentioned, i.e. with ridicule and derision. Since the moment we entered kindergarten when we were first exposed to that ubiquitous and colorful globe model displayed prominently in each classroom. We were all systematically instructed and programmed to unquestionably believe EVERYTHING our teachers taught us regarding the earth and the cosmos. This mesmerizing image of a whirling globe was later reinforced on countless background news graphics, white labcoat "science" presentations, at the start of all Universal Pictures movies and sci-fi flicks, etc.

    I too, once thought the Flat Earth was sheer nonsense. That is, . . . until I attempted to examine the topic of FE more closely and approached the subject with an open impartial mind.

    . . . My conclusion: The earth is indeed a flat, motionless plane just as the Bible (and our God-given senses) tell us!
     
  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    You know, I would say that statements like this could only be found in the darkest corners of the Dark Ages, uttered by nymphs, fairies and hobgoblins.......

    But, even the people who lived then knew the Earth is round
     
  5. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    I suppose it is flat on the underside as well? ...and is that a round disc or a square? ...and how thick is it?
    Do I also need to question the oxygen availability in the air because everyone tells me its there?
    The holocaust is also questioned by some. I'm astounded at the foolishness embraced in believing smooth talkers. Aren't all the eastern religions built on babblers without knowledge?
     
  6. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    Some good questions! No one really knows what the underside of earth looks like. The Bible suggests that the earth stands upon pillars 1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, and that it is circular and hangs upon nothing (Isaiah 40:22, 1 Samuel 2:8, Job 26:7) and stationary (1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalms 33:9, Psalms 93:1). As to the thickness of the underworld; the deepest recorded mine mankind has ever drilled was eight miles. The Bible often states that Sheol (the pit of hell) is down there somewhere.

    No one is questioning the availability or oxygen content of air.

    I am also a firm believer in the right to free speech (no matter whom takes umbrage) as well as the right to question ALL ASPECTS of historical events. The sacrosanct "six million" number and has been officially lowered substantially but merely declaring so in many countries is still punishable by imprisonment.


    I am equally astounded at so-called "Bible believing Christians" who esteem the word of "scientists" who largely reject the presence of a Creator and instead promulgate fantastical unproven theories of Evolution and the Big Bang over more scriptural explanations.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  7. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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  8. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    Just curious....if the earth is flat how does it "rotate" around the sun? Why do we have different time zones? (The sun should be in constant view for all countries) How can we experience darkness? (flat earth would indicate a fixed position). How can the moon, which is visibly round rotate around a flat surface? Why does the rising and setting of the sun or moon travel in an arched trajectory?
     
  9. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    The earth doesn’t rotate, spin or revolve at all, just like the Bible states. It’s flat like a pizza with the sun, moon and stars moving in the firmament (dome) above. There is a wall of ice around the circumference containing the oceans.

    C:\Users\Hoser\Desktop\FLAT EARTH\Maps_Models\FE_1.png

    [​IMG]
    The sun is much closer in the FE model and travels in increasing and then decreasing elliptical arcs above us. Due to optical perspective and the limits of light traveling through the atmosphere it rises in the east and sets in the west. Time zones give us local time parameters as to when to expect the sunrise/sunset etc.


    We only ever see one side of the moon. It appears to be the same size as the sun and radiates its own cool light (which is notably different than the sun's) and also travels in elliptical arcs in the skies above us.

    There is a very good documentary entitled "The Principle" in which noted physicists and bible scholars debate the Copernican model of the universe. It's narrated by Kate Mulgrew (Captain Janeway) of Star Trek fame. The film makers are NOT Flat Earthers but they raise some very interesting questions regarding what we've been told about the solar system.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  10. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

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    From what you've posted so far, I doubt he's basing most of his beliefs on scripture. Everything he's doing is to test what he's seen online. I've watched those videos as well. There's a certain logic to it all, and it can be quite compelling. The problem is in not admitting that science necessarily must rely on our powers of observation as well as our reasoning capacity.

    I do not pity the flat earthers out there. They're the product of a failed school system that can't prove the earth is a globe using our powers of observation or reasoning. We are just as much to be pitied if we cannot see exactly where they've gone wrong in their analysis. Simply pointing out some other argument doesn't even begin to address their point.

    Just to be clear I'm not suggesting that the earth is flat, but that pointing out that others are mistaken or deluded doesn't help them nor does it prove anything other than we also have no defense for our beliefs either.
     
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  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Neither the Bible, nor my senses tell me the earth is flat. I know it's not by my own observations.

    The FE model has a small sun and small moon circling over the flat earth. So instead of an orb that remains at approximately the same distance from our viewing perspective, the sun, in the FE, comes closer, closer, then overhead, then moves further, further, until it is lost from view, and the nighttime comes.

    Question . . . Why does the sun appear to be the same size when far away, ie the horizon, as it does when it is close, ie overhead? The further something is the smaller it should appear, but the sun, in the FE model, does not appear that way. Why??

    Why can I see an island that sits 60 miles offshore - well over the horizon - wait . . . wrong question . . . why can't I see it today? I've seen it before, I know it's there, but most days I cannot? Even when the air is so clear I can see fire stations in the local mountains, which are much further away? Of course, those times I've seen it, to varying degrees, those were by inversion layers. Why cannot I see the island on the clearest day? Why only on those few special days?

    These are things I've seen.

    Oh, and I've also been on top of those local mountains, and looked out over the see from 14,000 ft, and that plenty high to see not only the curve of the earth, looking left to right, but also that the horizon extends as a property of elevation, but there is still an horizon that is not seen over.

    Personally observing a globe earth. I don't need anyone to tell me the earth is round, I can see that for myself.

    Much love!
     
  12. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Kids are taught to challenge every idea without gaining a thorough understanding of the idea. Then, they are rewarded, not for mastery of the facts, but instead, for arranging the facts into unique and twisted ways, it is more important to stand out than master a subject - oh the humanity

    Seriously, even 20 years ago, could you imagine seeing this topic existing?
     
  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I've actually read it in Department of Education Common Core Curriculum, that "blue" should be an acceptable answer to an addition problem.

    Unbelievable!
     
  14. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    America has been raising consumers since the 1950s. The dumber the better, especially if the kids think they are geniuses. Finland is the model for education, instead of following their model, we decided to profit off our kids. We are so indentured to big business, we can’t even enforce school uniforms because the clothing industry would flip out. And I hate to say it, but trump and Devos are trying to privatize education without providing any alternative. It is a total disaster
     
  15. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I was reading something the other day, I don't remember what, that made the connection between the Baby Boomer generation and the frenetic consumerism we see today, that this was the first generation to be able to "have it all", and by the time the next gens came through, it became "entited to it all".

    I'll have to check out Finland's education system to see what they do.

    But I think you nailed it, follow the money . . .

    Much love!
     
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  16. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

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    Because it's far enough away as to not make any difference. In other words, it's the same reason it appears to be the same size in the round earth model. In each model, the sun is somewhere around 6k miles farther away at sunrise than at midday. I haven't studied the FE arguments that closely so they may not agree that the earth is that far away.

    For the same reason you can't see them if the earth is flat. They're too far away. They're beyond the vanishing point. That same island could be halfway to the moon and you wouldn't be able to see it. Boats that vanish at the vanishing point, can be seen again through a telescope.


    The horizon also rises up to meet the eyes. This is exactly what one would not only expect with a flat earth, but it is what science tells us as well. There are a number of physics and science websites that have pointed out that the difference between a flat earth and a round earth is less than the width of pencil lead held out at arms length. In other words, it is so insignificant as to be indiscernible to the naked eye.

    It isn't possible to observe the shape of the earth from the earth. We can see it's shadow cast onto the moon which indicates it is at least round like a pancake. When we see it from a different position, then we can conclude that it is a sphere, but even then we are only deducing this using simple logic. We can never see the shape of the earth without leaving the earth first.
     
  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is possible! Just go to the top of a tall mountain where you can look out over the sea, I promise you, you'll see we are on a ball. You ask me to ignore what I see for myself.

    Tell me, in the FE, what diameter are the sun and moon?
     
  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Compare the flat earth map and the distances from South America to Africa, and then look at commercial air flight times between those places, and compare to flight times between North America and Europe.

    How is it people can get to Africa from South America so quickly considering the many many more miles between them on the flat earth map?

    Seriously?

    Is every airline pilot "in on it"?
     
  19. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

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    I'm not a FE proponent so I'm not familiar with their models.

    The next time you're up on Mt. Everest or whatever mountain you supposedly saw the curvature of the earth, take a metal piece of pipe, half inch diameter is big enough. Level it, and look through it. See anything? You should see a line; it's the horizon. Logic dictates that you shouldn't see anything but sky due to the fact that parallel lines never cross or intersect. As I pointed out before, the problem is that the horizon rises up to meet you wherever you are. You simply can't get far enough up into the sky to rise above the horizon. Even from 30,000 ft in the sky, you can see clouds far off in the distance at the same elevation, but you can't see the bottoms of them regardless of how far away they are. Here again, logic dictates that they should curve along with the curvature of the earth. The problem is that the earth is too large to see that far.

    30k feet up in the air may seem like a high elevation, but in comparison to how high one needs to actually go to see the curvature of the earth it isn't nearly high enough. When we factor in the fact that the atmosphere is about as thin as a sheet of paper by comparison to the size of the earth, this should give us a better idea of the magnitude of what we're dealing with.
     
  20. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Yikes, where does he get these ideas?
     
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