Follow the government or follow God

[Cristo Rei]

Back in the 60's they passed the law that made involuntary residents of mental hospitals illegal. Meaning that unless you were criminally insane you could come and go as you pleased.
(We have a very wealthy society)
So most left. They make up the bulk of the "homeless" on the streets.
Some actually became productive members of society... holding jobs and paying rent, a few getting married and having crazy children. But still nuts.

Now they have been quarantining...no sane voices for these marginally insane people to draw upon. They hear the voices in their heads, their hallucinations are still going strong...but all by themselves.

Meanwhile the happy residents getting tastes of normalcy will be everywhere with irrational exuberance.

No telling the difference between sane and crazy.
It's not going to be pretty for a bit here.

Ok i was thinking about something else... Where are you, New York?
Your basically talking about people already with mental conditions like psychoses... ... Makes me sad...
We don't really know the full impact this is going to have on peoples mental health and society yet but there are fears that its going to bad...

 

[JohnDB]

Ok i was thinking about something else... Where are you, New York?
Your basically talking about people already with mental conditions like psychoses... ... Makes me sad...
We don't really know the full impact this is going to have on peoples mental health and society yet but there are fears that its going to bad...

Nashville Tennessee...where the presidential debate is happening tonight.

Over on the east side towards the lake on the map.

 

[Taken]

Last month Daniel Andrews wanted to pass a bill to be able to lock people up without trial if they think that you might break the law...

That guy is dangerous...

Now their using drones to spy on us this weekend... Make sure no one is having fun...
The committed will keep standing by Dan regardless of facts... they'll follow him into the blazing furnace if needed...

Doing nothing wrong, should not be a bother to be spied on?

Almost sounds like a hope for a perverts fantasy come true....

 

[Taken]

Ye i know... Im really filled with great hope...



Dewat... U lost me with that one...

That book and movie is exactly about punishing Before a crime is committed.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Nashville Tennessee...where the presidential debate is happening tonight.

Over on the east side towards the lake on the map.

Nashville i think of guitar bands... Tennessee i think of bourbon whiskey...

Their my first thought associations... Any connection? Jack Daniels is from there isn't he... No idea where guitar bands came from... LoL

 

[JohnDB]

Nashville i think of guitar bands... Tennessee i think of bourbon whiskey...

Their my first thought associations... Any connection? Jack Daniels is from there isn't he... No idea where guitar bands came from... LoL

Yes...Grand Old Opry is here. We are home to country music. Most every type of music star has a home here from Rock and Roll to Jazz.
Currently we are also the home for movies, commercials and videos.
Back when MTV gained popularity Country Music wanted a channel too...so they built new recording studios and video editing. We had the newest, latest equipment for doing it and hollywood began sending us the movies...
So Nashville became the cutting room floor. We still have a huge contingent of editing here everything from books and movies and commercials to magazines and journals. From pictures to writing.
Most of your religious materials publishing houses are here in Nashville too.

And yes, jack daniel's and george dickel are made here in TN too... (And many others that are immensely better)

Gibson guitars are made here as well.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Where did you get this graph from? You are the buffoon because the data for 26 Jul should have been 495, 29 Jul 630 etc.

Vic Health site at this address: Department of Health and Human Services Victoria | Victorian coronavirus (COVID-19) data provides the following interactive graph. which looks nothing like the graph you produced with data for every third day.

View attachment 11293

since your graph looks nothing like the above, even for every third day as you have I assume produced, then all you have is hot air and nothing reliable to say.

I sense that you have nothing but a giant wooden spoon.

So like i said... I accept your graph... Now.. The OP... Government and church are opposed

Government say "church closed"...
Church leaders say "we want open"...

Who do u support???

 

[JohnDB]

So like i said... I accept your graph... Now.. The OP... Government and church are opposed

Government say "church closed"...
Church leaders say "we want open"...

Who do u support???

Anyone with cookies?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Currently hospitality venues may seat up to 20 people indoors and 50 people outdoors while religious gatherings are limited to 10 people outdoors or indoor services for one household.

Here in Victoria the evil one has had churches closed since March, considered non-essential... God is considered non-essential...

So then, what is essential here...
Well the bottle shop is essential cos we have to be able to access alcohol...
Injecting rooms have been open all this time... It is illegal to use drugs therefore our government supplies them with syringes and a safe place to inject their drugs...

Ok, so essential is alcohol and drugs... Non-essential is God... The last thing they want is pastors preaching sermons all over town... Some of these pastors might reveal too much...
The last thing they want is for us to congregate under God... Their the authority now...

The churches of Melbourne have been very patient with the Victorian government but now they've crossed the line... Most of the churches in Melbourne are now against the restrictions imposed by Daniel Andrews, including the RCC...

There is no justification for this at all

Don't get me wrong this isn't an innocent decision by the government... They have proven themselves to be anti-Christian on many occasion... They are evil to the core... They took bribes to lock up Cardinal George Pell... Their exposing kids to deviant LGBT lifestyles and prosecuting those that oppose it...

Man... There is a huge problem in Australia with child trafficking and Victoria is the worse... But does the media cover it... Nope... Not at all

So then, as a Catholic/Christian, my views on this lockdown are in line with the Archdiocese of Melbourne... And with most of the other churches on board it now becomes a choice... Trust the government and continue to support its decisions... Or support the Church

An Open Letter to the Premier from the Catholic Bishops of Victoria
People of faith deserve hope, not exile: Archbishop Comensoli
Victorian Catholics push for churches to open
‘Equality, not hypocrisy’: Victorian faith groups petition Daniel Andrews for changes in COVID-19 roadmap
Victorian Catholics want churches open - Catholic Voice
No Cookies | The Weekly Times
Melbourne Catholics upset at ongoing restrictions

Well in China where I went twice, it was against teh law for non government registered churches (believing churches) to meet at all! They would take two hours to slowly by ones and twos to gather, hold a two-three hour sevice, exchange the parts of the bible they each had (such a bible shortage back then people would brak the bible apart by books and rotate them) and then take two hours to depart to avoid suspicion.

If we mask we should be okay. We are free to meet, but if the govt. imposes penalties, we must also be ready to pay teh human consequences for obeying God.

 

[JohnDB]

Well in China where I went twice, it was against teh law for non government registered churches (believing churches) to meet at all! They would take two hours to slowly by ones and twos to gather, hold a two-three hour sevice, exchange the parts of the bible they each had (such a bible shortage back then people would brak the bible apart by books and rotate them) and then take two hours to depart to avoid suspicion.

If we mask we should be okay. We are free to meet, but if the govt. imposes penalties, we must also be ready to pay teh human consequences for obeying God.

In Chinese culture any pastor who has not been arrested and imprisoned twice is not worth listening to.

It's amazing how the church there is really resilient.

Also met up with a church in Slovakia...

They remember what having church under communist Rule was like.
To them,
It's a matter of commitment. No "easy believism" is allowed...you still have to prove your dedication and faith in order to join the church or to be Baptized. (Years are required)

The pastor was telling us stories about how his father would pray in the town square at a picnic on May Day and worry about it until February the following year. (You never knew when you were going to get sent to Siberia)
And how they went to "Birthday parties" every week at someone's house. But never went to church.

They were amazing to me with their dedication.

I felt immeasurably blessed to be there with them and share with them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In Chinese culture any pastor who has not been arrested and imprisoned twice is not worth listening to.

It's amazing how the church there is really resilient.

Also met up with a church in Slovakia...

They remember what having church under communist Rule was like.
To them,
It's a matter of commitment. No "easy believism" is allowed...you still have to prove your dedication and faith in order to join the church or to be Baptized. (Years are required)

The pastor was telling us stories about how his father would pray in the town square at a picnic on May Day and worry about it until February the following year. (You never knew when you were going to get sent to Siberia)
And how they went to "Birthday parties" every week at someone's house. But never went to church.

They were amazing to me with their dedication.

I felt immeasurably blessed to be there with them and share with them.

I remember when the Iron Curtain was up. We had some missionary pastors in Europe who just went off teh grid. None of us knew what had happened and their wives were very tight lipped. When the iron curtain "fell" we found out what happened.

They had mbeen making secret trips into Russian Europe and had been secretly teaching men to be elders and pastors. When the curtain came down, there were literally dozens of men who stepped right up to lead churches for the new found religious freedom ! Untold thousands got saved because of their obedience and courage!

 

[Waiting on him]

Ye there is just no logic here... 50 people allowed in a bar, drinking, eating, coming and going, interacting
But none allowed in a church where we just stay in the same spot and mostly

Why don’t you just invite some people to your home and discuss how good God is?

 

[JohnDB]

I remember when the Iron Curtain was up. We had some missionary pastors in Europe who just went off teh grid. None of us knew what had happened and their wives were very tight lipped. When the iron curtain "fell" we found out what happened.

They had mbeen making secret trips into Russian Europe and had been secretly teaching men to be elders and pastors. When the curtain came down, there were literally dozens of men who stepped right up to lead churches for the new found religious freedom ! Untold thousands got saved because of their obedience and courage!

During our trip there to Slovakia we were helping out with a summer English camp that was a thinly veiled vacation Bible School...but we taught the kids...my wife is an excellent but demanding teacher. Kids thought that I was fun.
At any rate...
I got to lead the devotional one morning...
So I thought to explain the story of education in Israel during the time Jesus was there and what "you didn't ask me but I chose you" really meant
The pastor (Slavo) was astounded at what I said. And then he was eavesdropping on me and the Doc's (phd) son as I explained why my wife and I were stopping off in Israel for a few days after the work with them was finished. He was like 10-11 at the time...

The pastor decided that he needed to have a sabbatical in Israel shortly after that...He's back in his role as Pastor today. His wife is the principal of the school and is the only Christian School in Slovakia... apparently they are THE premier school in the country.
They are setting a very high bar for standards there.

It was rather amusing to hear "Boris" (a giant of a man and not short) and see a true to life "Natasha".

The authorized churches were absolutely gorgeous...but we weren't there for them.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Why don’t you just invite some people to your home and discuss how good God is?

Against the law... But like the guys were saying just above this, when there is a will there is a way...
I never really heard these stories about under cover Christians in communist Europe and China...

I remember when the Iron Curtain was up

Our premier has surrounded Melbourne with what he calls "the ring of steel"... Cops are manning every way out... Anyone one caught leaving gets a 5k fine and sent to the gulag (ok im gagging wit the gulag)... But when i first heard him say the ring of steel the first thing that came to my mind was the iron curtain... Ironic... Maybe thats where he got his inspiration for the ring of steel... Maybe there is no relation at all but the premier is in collusion with China behind the federals back...

Those little stories that u and @JohnDB gave are frightening... I love hearing about how it was before me... My olds grew up in the only facist country left in Europe then i think, maybe Spain as well was in the 60s. My dad also lived in South Africa during the apartheid. He has an amazing life story and can tell me about fascism, socialism, real systemic racism, bad prisons, injustices, man he has just about seen it all... But Portugal has always been a Catholic nation from the start so there was no oppression there and he never spoke about religious oppression in south Africa either... So these stories of secret gatherings in the communist countries are interesting... Reminds me of how they were meeting in the book of Acts...

Hopefully it won't come to that here... Just learnt about something which i think is the turning point for this government... I wish they would just shut up down here to be honest so i can sit back and watch the show in America... Im missing every thing cos every day this goose down here takes the headlines with something else... LoL... Leaving the state in about 3 months anyway... Can't wait

 

[Giuliano]

There is no argument only fact...
Fact - Government wants to keeps church closed
Fact - Religions want to open churches

Choose which ever you like mate

Some churches are saying they want to open. I doubt they all do.

How many cases of sickness and how many deaths would you like your church to be responsible for? Is that loving your neighbor?

Churches have spread this virus in some places. It doesn't make Christianity look good. Most churches in South Korea gladly obeyed the rules the government set. Others didn't. They spread the virus; and now non-Christians in South Korea see Christians in a bad light.

South Korea's defiant churches face backlash for hampering COVID-19 response

South Korea’s latest COVID-19 outbreak has triggered a public backlash against conservative Christian churches for defying government orders aimed at preventing the disease’s spread.

At least a third of the 4,500 COVID-19 cases confirmed in the greater Seoul area over the past three weeks have been traced to church members and others who attended an Aug. 15 anti-government rally, the country’s largest cluster in months.

Authorities said quelling the outbreak was hampered by some 650 church members and 7,700 protesters avoiding or refusing testing as of Tuesday, and more than 300 congregations breaching a ban on in-person gatherings.

Mainstream Christian figures and conservative opposition lawmakers have criticized the Sarang Jeil Church at the center of the latest COVID-19 outbreak and other churches for spreading fake news, aggravating the COVID-19 outbreak and depleting public resources.

As the second wave of infections in mid-August emerged, conservative political parties are keeping the churches at arm’s length, wary that aligning with them is scaring away independent and center-right voters who are key to broadening their support and helping them win the next presidential election in 2022.
​

If the goal is to get the public to hate Christianity, I can see no better way of doing it than by being selfish and demanding the right to go to church . . . even it kills other people. Have you had attacks on churches yet in Australia? We have in the US; and if churches keep spreading the virus, I expect to see more attacks on churches.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Against the law... But like the guys were saying just above this, when there is a will there is a way...
I never really heard these stories about under cover Christians in communist Europe and China...



Our premier has surrounded Melbourne with what he calls "the ring of steel"... Cops are manning every way out... Anyone one caught leaving gets a 5k fine and sent to the gulag (ok im gagging wit the gulag)... But when i first heard him say the ring of steel the first thing that came to my mind was the iron curtain... Ironic... Maybe thats where he got his inspiration for the ring of steel... Maybe there is no relation at all but the premier is in collusion with China behind the federals back...

Those little stories that u and @JohnDB gave are frightening... I love hearing about how it was before me... My olds grew up in the only facist country left in Europe then i think, maybe Spain as well was in the 60s. My dad also lived in South Africa during the apartheid. He has an amazing life story and can tell me about fascism, socialism, real systemic racism, bad prisons, injustices, man he has just about seen it all... But Portugal has always been a Catholic nation from the start so there was no oppression there and he never spoke about religious oppression in south Africa either... So these stories of secret gatherings in the communist countries are interesting... Reminds me of how they were meeting in the book of Acts...

Hopefully it won't come to that here... Just learnt about something which i think is the turning point for this government... I wish they would just shut up down here to be honest so i can sit back and watch the show in America... Im missing every thing cos every day this goose down here takes the headlines with something else... LoL... Leaving the state in about 3 months anyway... Can't wait

One trip I made to China, 8 of us smuggled in over 1500 New TEstaments and 3 pastors libraries (concordances, expositories, commentaries). The authorities let us in at the Border with Hong Kong (it was still under British rule then), but had spies follow us, so they could arrest teh native believers. We got to Beijing and dropped off our materials at teh Swedish Embassy who moved them to another and then another and so on, until the authorities no longer knew where they were! Then they were smuggled out of Beijing and found their way to believers in the underground church.

 

[JohnDB]

One trip I made to China, 8 of us smuggled in over 1500 New TEstaments and 3 pastors libraries (concordances, expositories, commentaries). The authorities let us in at the Border with Hong Kong (it was still under British rule then), but had spies follow us, so they could arrest teh native believers. We got to Beijing and dropped off our materials at teh Swedish Embassy who moved them to another and then another and so on, until the authorities no longer knew where they were! Then they were smuggled out of Beijing and found their way to believers in the underground church.

There's a lot of ways that Bibles and study materials are smuggled into there... you just mentioned one.
I don't want to so openly discuss the details because I am still fearful for a lot of people involved.

Christianity is a growing religion in china even with the current crackdowns.

We are hoping that things get better...I'm unsure of how that is going to happen though.

Currently there's a ton of hostility between Hong Kong, Taiwan and PRC.
America has gotten itself involved and it's only stirring the pot.
India is also in increased tensions over Border issues with PRC.
(There's other border issues going on as well besides India)

So...
I don't know how long this thing is going to last... what America will do if it boils over.

I can tell you that China needs the American marketplace. European and African markets aren't substantial enough.

China needs us much more than we need them.

 

[Taken]

One of the Tenants of Communism is to Oppress Godly things- and exalt the Government "dictators".

Liberal Socialism is a spin-Off... "SAYING" Ya sure Godliness is Good- "while Oppressing and Blocking" every avenue that leads one to Godliness and Re-Route the avenue TO the government.

It is not some mysterious formula to decipher a weak person and strong person...

A weak person hears "FREE" and will run, push, shove to be First in line.

A strong person hears "FREEDOM" and will WORK his tail off, to establish it, have it, keep it.

God puts a man's FREEDOM squarely hidden within the man...(NOT in tangible things an other can See and Take).

It is men who dangle "scrap freebies" and promises of more.

I have for years heard of underground (some literally underground) meetings to worship God, spread His Word, in Government Nations around the World.

The scary thing is developing technology, and inferences of requirement to be seduced or forced in subjection to what is "introduced" as a healthwise "Safety" measure IS: moreso a monitoring AND reprogramming of thought Control.

Currently and openly, thousands of American Christians are meeting IN Homes, rather than Church buildings.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jaxxi]

Currently hospitality venues may seat up to 20 people indoors and 50 people outdoors while religious gatherings are limited to 10 people outdoors or indoor services for one household.

Here in Victoria the evil one has had churches closed since March, considered non-essential... God is considered non-essential...

So then, what is essential here...
Well the bottle shop is essential cos we have to be able to access alcohol...
Injecting rooms have been open all this time... It is illegal to use drugs therefore our government supplies them with syringes and a safe place to inject their drugs...

Ok, so essential is alcohol and drugs... Non-essential is God... The last thing they want is pastors preaching sermons all over town... Some of these pastors might reveal too much...
The last thing they want is for us to congregate under God... Their the authority now...

The churches of Melbourne have been very patient with the Victorian government but now they've crossed the line... Most of the churches in Melbourne are now against the restrictions imposed by Daniel Andrews, including the RCC...

There is no justification for this at all

Don't get me wrong this isn't an innocent decision by the government... They have proven themselves to be anti-Christian on many occasion... They are evil to the core... They took bribes to lock up Cardinal George Pell... Their exposing kids to deviant LGBT lifestyles and prosecuting those that oppose it...

Man... There is a huge problem in Australia with child trafficking and Victoria is the worse... But does the media cover it... Nope... Not at all

So then, as a Catholic/Christian, my views on this lockdown are in line with the Archdiocese of Melbourne... And with most of the other churches on board it now becomes a choice... Trust the government and continue to support its decisions... Or support the Church

An Open Letter to the Premier from the Catholic Bishops of Victoria
People of faith deserve hope, not exile: Archbishop Comensoli
Victorian Catholics push for churches to open
‘Equality, not hypocrisy’: Victorian faith groups petition Daniel Andrews for changes in COVID-19 roadmap
Victorian Catholics want churches open - Catholic Voice
No Cookies | The Weekly Times
Melbourne Catholics upset at ongoing restrictions

For ME it is a no brainer! Is the government going to give you salvation from eternal hell or is God? Is man our final authority or is God? REMEMBER who created who...

 

[Bobby Jo]

It seems to me that many use the GOD/Government argument to disenfranchise us from participation so that the throngs yelling "Barabas" win the day. But PAUL appealed his arrest according to his Roman Citizenship RIGHTS, and we too must appeal to our elected officials for our Constitutional RIGHTS.

And of course that RESPONSIBILITY requires EFFORT, but lazy people allow "Barabas" to be released.
Bobby Jo