Follow the government or follow God

[teamventure]

Maskes and social distancing have got nothing to do with it.

Sigh.. I'll forgive your unawareness because I remember you're from Australia and I don't know what it's like there.

I am from Washington State, the same region where all this antifa blm nonsense has gone to the point of an autonomous zone, the governor of my state Jay Inslee tightening control, it is more than obvious to me from here that this is about control.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Some churches are saying they want to open. I doubt they all do.

How many cases of sickness and how many deaths would you like your church to be responsible for? Is that loving your neighbor?

Churches have spread this virus in some places. It doesn't make Christianity look good. Most churches in South Korea gladly obeyed the rules the government set. Others didn't. They spread the virus; and now non-Christians in South Korea see Christians in a bad light.

South Korea's defiant churches face backlash for hampering COVID-19 response

South Korea’s latest COVID-19 outbreak has triggered a public backlash against conservative Christian churches for defying government orders aimed at preventing the disease’s spread.

At least a third of the 4,500 COVID-19 cases confirmed in the greater Seoul area over the past three weeks have been traced to church members and others who attended an Aug. 15 anti-government rally, the country’s largest cluster in months.

Authorities said quelling the outbreak was hampered by some 650 church members and 7,700 protesters avoiding or refusing testing as of Tuesday, and more than 300 congregations breaching a ban on in-person gatherings.

Mainstream Christian figures and conservative opposition lawmakers have criticized the Sarang Jeil Church at the center of the latest COVID-19 outbreak and other churches for spreading fake news, aggravating the COVID-19 outbreak and depleting public resources.

As the second wave of infections in mid-August emerged, conservative political parties are keeping the churches at arm’s length, wary that aligning with them is scaring away independent and center-right voters who are key to broadening their support and helping them win the next presidential election in 2022.
​

If the goal is to get the public to hate Christianity, I can see no better way of doing it than by being selfish and demanding the right to go to church . . . even it kills other people. Have you had attacks on churches yet in Australia? We have in the US; and if churches keep spreading the virus, I expect to see more attacks on churches.

Like i said there has been less than 10 daily cases here for over a month now...
Government wants to keep church closed while opening bars, injecting homes, pubs, etc...
All the major church leaders are in disagreement...

So for us here in Melbourne the government and church are opposed and it's time to confirm where our allegiance lies.

For me the decision is as clear as day... The church comes before government

 

[Cristo Rei]

@Jay Ross ... Why don't you address the op???

Government wants to keep churches closed...
Church leaders wants them reopen...

 

[Josho]

Like i said there has been less than 10 daily cases here for over a month now...
Government wants to keep church closed while opening bars, injecting homes, pubs, etc...
All the major church leaders are in disagreement...

So for us here in Melbourne the government and church are opposed and it's time to confirm where our allegiance lies.

For me the decision is as clear as day... The church comes before government

I already gave the facts for Melbourne on this, pubs and bars are still waiting to open in Melbourne.

 

[historyb]

Sigh.. I'll forgive your unawareness because I remember you're from Australia and I don't know what it's like there.

I am from Washington State, the same region where all this antifa blm nonsense has gone to the point of an autonomous zone, the governor of my state Jay Inslee tightening control, it is more than obvious to me from here that this is about control.

Ours said no Church, no fun, no family in my county. The Churches were open today, poop on the stupid Governor. The stupid liberals have overstep their bounds, there is nothing in the State or Federal Constitution that says the Governors have life and death power over us, nor can they take the power they did. They work for us and let's fire those numbskulls! Give me freedom or give me death!

 

[Jay Ross]

@Jay Ross ... Why don't you address the op???

Government wants to keep churches closed...
Church leaders wants them reopen...

Why is it important for you to have churches open or congregations gathering together to worship?

For me I cannot gather with my congregation where my heart is to worship at present because I am not allowed to travel to where my church and heart is.

Last year when I was with my "church," in body and soul, I was not allowed to preach or teach because it was dangerous for me to do so. I could have been jailed, just as the pastors there were being jailed for evangelising among the people around them and their churches were being burned down. However, in that place, people are being baptised in the mountain streams and they are giving up much more than I have to in Australia to become a Christian.

What do we give up in this country to demonstrate our "Christian" faith in God. Very Little or not much at all.

A Christian should be following/practicing the dictates of Isaiah 58 at the very least.

Reading what you are posting demonstrates to me an angry emotional man venting his spleen who only wants to sheet the blame for his circumstances to the premier of your state which is unhealthy for your soul instead of taking responsibility for the same.

Shalom

 

[Cristo Rei]

Why is it important for you to have churches open or congregations gathering together to worship?

For me I cannot gather with my congregation where my heart is to worship at present because I am not allowed to travel to where my church and heart is.

Last year when I was with my "church," in body and soul, I was not allowed to preach or teach because it was dangerous for me to do so. I could have been jailed, just as the pastors there were being jailed for evangelising among the people around them and their churches were being burned down. However, in that place, people are being baptised in the mountain streams and they are giving up much more than I have to in Australia to become a Christian.

What do we give up in this country to demonstrate our "Christian" faith in God. Very Little or not much at all.

A Christian should be following/practicing the dictates of Isaiah 58 at the very least.

Reading what you are posting demonstrates to me an angry emotional man venting his spleen who only wants to sheet the blame for his circumstances to the premier of your state which is unhealthy for your soul instead of taking responsibility for the same.

Shalom

You are opposing church to support a corrupt government that has proven to be anti-Christian...

Anti-Church... Anti-Christian... Anti-Christ...

(This is referring to the government)

 

[teamventure]

Why is it important for you to have churches open or congregations gathering together to worship?

For me I cannot gather with my congregation where my heart is to worship at present because I am not allowed to travel to where my church and heart is.

Last year when I was with my "church," in body and soul, I was not allowed to preach or teach because it was dangerous for me to do so. I could have been jailed, just as the pastors there were being jailed for evangelising among the people around them and their churches were being burned down. However, in that place, people are being baptised in the mountain streams and they are giving up much more than I have to in Australia to become a Christian.

What do we give up in this country to demonstrate our "Christian" faith in God. Very Little or not much at all.

A Christian should be following/practicing the dictates of Isaiah 58 at the very least.

Reading what you are posting demonstrates to me an angry emotional man venting his spleen who only wants to sheet the blame for his circumstances to the premier of your state which is unhealthy for your soul instead of taking responsibility for the same.

Shalom

You're missing the point.
We are angry but we aren't angry enough
Because they want to take away religious freedom until there is none left even to the point of making illegal to think like a christian. It's coming, in fact it's already on the precipice.

 

[Jay Ross]

You're missing the point.
We are angry but we aren't angry enough
Because they want to take away religious freedom until there is none left even to the point of making illegal to think like a christian. It's coming, in fact it's already on the precipice.

Am I missing the point? Where I lived for three months last year with my wife, it is illegal to discuss with another person what they believe, or to attempt to get them to become a member of another religion, other than the one they are already in.

My Freedom is because of my relationship with Christ, within the restrictions of being a "Disciple of Christ's."

My willingness to worship God within my circumstances is what is important.

In China, it is now illegal to worship God and many are being put in prison simply because they do.

When I first travelled to the third world country I have regularly visited over the past 24 plus years, I was prepared to suffer, even death, to witness my faith, like the people I go to visit, before I even left Australia. When I travelled last year to that country, I was also prepared to suffer and even to die for my faith in Christ.

It was something that I had to settle in my spirit before I went.

The "church's" existence becomes irrelevant because I am prepared to walk where God would have me walk with Him. Walking in anger does not cut it with Christ as I would have unforgiveness in my heart for the people around me and that would make me irrelevant to the people I need to minister too.

Shalom

 

[Josho]

Am I missing the point? Where I lived for three months last year with my wife, it is illegal to discuss with another person what they believe, or to attempt to get them to become a member of another religion, other than the one they are already in.

My Freedom is because of my relationship with Christ, within the restrictions of being a "Disciple of Christ's."

My willingness to worship God within my circumstances is what is important.

In China, it is now illegal to worship God and many are being put in prison simply because they do.

When I first travelled to the third world country I have regularly visited over the past 24 plus years, I was prepared to suffer, even death, to witness my faith, like the people I go to visit, before I even left Australia. When I travelled last year to that country, I was also prepared to suffer and even to die for my faith in Christ.

It was something that I had to settle in my spirit before I went.

The "church's" existence becomes irrelevant because I am prepared to walk where God would have me walk with Him. Walking in anger does not cut it with Christ as I would have unforgiveness in my heart for the people around me and that would make me irrelevant to the people I need to minister too.

Shalom

And the Church is where the heart is, we as Christians are the Church, the Church does not depend on a building.

 

[teamventure]

Am I missing the point? Where I lived for three months last year with my wife, it is illegal to discuss with another person what they believe, or to attempt to get them to become a member of another religion, other than the one they are already in.

My Freedom is because of my relationship with Christ, within the restrictions of being a "Disciple of Christ's."

My willingness to worship God within my circumstances is what is important.

In China, it is now illegal to worship God and many are being put in prison simply because they do.

When I first travelled to the third world country I have regularly visited over the past 24 plus years, I was prepared to suffer, even death, to witness my faith, like the people I go to visit, before I even left Australia. When I travelled last year to that country, I was also prepared to suffer and even to die for my faith in Christ.

It was something that I had to settle in my spirit before I went.

The "church's" existence becomes irrelevant because I am prepared to walk where God would have me walk with Him. Walking in anger does not cut it with Christ as I would have unforgiveness in my heart for the people around me and that would make me irrelevant to the people I need to minister too.

Shalom

I see your point with much of what you're saying and I even appreciate your insight but the anger part still makes sense to me. Evil is so rampant in our world and God is very angry about it.

 

[Jay Ross]

I see your point with much of what you're saying and I even appreciate your insight but the anger part still makes sense to me. Evil is so rampant in our world and God is very angry about it.

Yes, He is. And in around 24 years time, He will Judge the Kings of the earth on the earth and the heavenly hosts in heaven and those judged to be wanting will be gathered together on the face of the earth and imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. (Isa 24:21-22)

We "Christians" on the other hand, have to endure our circumstances and be patient with God and His timing for when He will call to account the evil that has happened in the earth during this present time.

Shalom

 

[teamventure]

Shalom!

 

[Cristo Rei]

LIES LIES LIES FROM DANIEL ANDREWS

Victorias premier, Daniel Andrews, has lied to his fellow Victorians again... He said that he would lift the lockdowns yesterday once our daily cases reached below 5 for 2 weeks... Despite the state being well under the target of 5 cases per day and having 0 cases today the premier announced yesterday that he was reneging on his promise to us and that the lockdown would remain...

'This is a communist state!' Furious Jeff Kennett blasts Dan Andrews for refusing to open Melbourne | Daily Mail Online
Victoria Premier draws fire by reneging on promise to reopen Melbourne
Andrews slammed by former friends and foe over Victorian lockdown delay
‘Dishonest Dan’ is ruling Victorians by ‘concern’: Paul Dimattina - NewsRaiser
https://alkhaleejtoday.co/international/5188682/Now-we’re-down-Daniel-Andrews-broke-Victorian’s-heart.html

Just one of many lies from Daniel Andrews to the people of Victoria

 

[Josho]

LIES LIES LIES FROM DANIEL ANDREWS

Victorias premier, Daniel Andrews, has lied to his fellow Victorians again... He said that he would lift the lockdowns yesterday once our daily cases reached below 5 for 2 weeks... Despite the state being well under the target of 5 cases per day and having 0 cases today the premier announced yesterday that he was reneging on his promise to us and that the lockdown would remain...

'This is a communist state!' Furious Jeff Kennett blasts Dan Andrews for refusing to open Melbourne | Daily Mail Online
Victoria Premier draws fire by reneging on promise to reopen Melbourne
Andrews slammed by former friends and foe over Victorian lockdown delay
‘Dishonest Dan’ is ruling Victorians by ‘concern’: Paul Dimattina - NewsRaiser
https://alkhaleejtoday.co/international/5188682/Now-we’re-down-Daniel-Andrews-broke-Victorian’s-heart.html

Just one of many lies from Daniel Andrews to the people of Victoria

He is easing restrictions on Wednesday, they had to wait for the 1000 test results from the Northern Suburbs to come back to see whether if they had tracked all the positive cases from the Northern suburbs outbreak, those test results came back today, and they were all negative, so he is easing restrictions on Wednesday.

November 1 was when they expected to go on easing restrictions further, they brought that forward by a few days.

Dan was just taking some precautions.

You should be thankful and pleased that they are on track to easing restrictions on Wednesday.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Thanks Dan for destroying our lives

 

[kcnalp]

One day soon THE "Government" will require everyone to take the Mark of the Beast. Those who comply will burn in Hell. Those who refuse will die but will obtain eternal salvation.

Revelation 13:7 (NKJV)
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Revelation 13:16-17 (NKJV)
16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Why is it important for you to have churches open or congregations gathering together to worship?

Seriously... U don't know why its important for churches to reopen... Well... U are really entrenched in the lies of the mainstream

For me I cannot gather with my congregation where my heart is to worship at present because I am not allowed to travel to where my church and heart is.

Last year when I was with my "church," in body and soul, I was not allowed to preach or teach because it was dangerous for me to do so. I could have been jailed, just as the pastors there were being jailed for evangelising among the people around them and their churches were being burned down. However, in that place, people are being baptised in the mountain streams and they are giving up much more than I have to in Australia to become a Christian.

What do we give up in this country to demonstrate our "Christian" faith in God. Very Little or not much at all.

A Christian should be following/practicing the dictates of Isaiah 58 at the very least.

You are supporting the lifestyle of alcohol and drugs being promoted by the government by opening bars and injecting rooms...
You support the cancellation of Church and God...

Reading what you are posting demonstrates to me an angry emotional man venting his spleen who only wants to sheet the blame for his circumstances to the premier of your state which is unhealthy for your soul instead of taking responsibility for the same.

And here u go again... LoL... Your angry at me being angry... Like u said, it's damaging to the soul, such senseless anger...
Your just being a wozl... Your not broke, unemployed or homeless... Your past and your future haven't been destroyed... Ur not dealing with the destruction of your community, the death of your friends... How would u like it if your cousin killed himself, and another friend, and another, and another??? And yet u stand there telling me to shut up and blame myself instead of Dan... Your such an ignoramus

But im not expecting any sympathy from u... You're only concerned for yourself... Your heart is cold... Your soul is full of evil...
You pour out the will of Satan against your fellow man... You have been deceived by the devil... He controls your actions...
That's why your always so full of hate and anger towards your neighbors, if it's not me it's someone else your attacking...

But i've always had a short fuse and im glad that im able to vent my frustration in this fashion as opposed to becoming violent like i used to...
How about being constructive and suggesting some alternative ways to release my anger if it makes u so angry...
Angry at angry... LoL... No idea

I've tried to figure out why u act like such a wozl towards me...
Seems to me your having a sook about me having a sook when u haven't got a clue in the world. Your only following the mainstream narrative...
But with all your judgement and anger and demand u come across as uncle scrouge...

 

[Jay Ross]

Seriously... U don't know why its important for churches to reopen... Well... U are really entrenched in the lies of the mainstream



You are supporting the lifestyle of alcohol and drugs being promoted by the government by opening bars and injecting rooms...
You support the cancellation of Church and God...



And here u go again... LoL... Your angry at me being angry... Like u said, it's damaging to the soul, such senseless anger...
Your just being a wozl... Your not broke, unemployed or homeless... Your past and your future haven't been destroyed... Ur not dealing with the destruction of your community, the death of your friends... How would u like it if your cousin killed himself, and another friend, and another, and another??? And yet u stand there telling me to shut up and blame myself instead of Dan... Your such an ignoramus

But im not expecting any sympathy from u... You're only concerned for yourself... Your heart is cold... Your soul is full of evil...
You pour out the will of Satan against your fellow man... You have been deceived by the devil... He controls your actions...
That's why your always so full of hate and anger towards your neighbors, if it's not me it's someone else your attacking...

But i've always had a short fuse and im glad that im able to vent my frustration in this fashion as opposed to becoming violent like i used to...
How about being constructive and suggesting some alternative ways to release my anger if it makes u so angry...
Angry at angry... LoL... No idea

I've tried to figure out why u act like such a wozl towards me...
Seems to me your having a sook about me having a sook when u haven't got a clue in the world. Your only following the mainstream narrative...
But with all your judgement and anger and demand u come across as uncle scrouge...

Now do you feel any better publishing fake news/facts about me?

I doubt that you do feel better and most probably, you are feeling worse about what you have written since you pressed the Post Reply button.

Only last week I provided a small monetary amount to the pastor and his co-worker from the church where my heart is, to enable them to extent the Hand of God to the people who live around them, as I am not able to do so personally, who are hungry because they have not been able to work since the government put a ban on non essential activities. My small contribution will probably feed a thousand or more people over the next few month or so, until their crops can be harvested.

The best way for you to deal with your anger is to become a useful member of our society as God suggests in Isa 58.

My question to you is, "Are your present actions helping or blessing other people during this present time?"

Shalom

 

[Cristo Rei]

Now do you feel any better publishing fake news/facts about me?

U mean my opinion... Yes i do feel better cos after you introduced yourself with vile accusations it would of been easier for me to ignore you...
But i came back and tried to understand what your criticism was in order to find some middle ground...

Is it fair to say that your criticism is of me giving criticism??? Your frustrated by my frustration... Think about that for a sec... Its not logical
You don't like people being critical so u criticize them. The term ironic comes to mind... So does hypocrisy...

Only last week I provided a small monetary amount to the pastor and his co-worker from the church where my heart is, to enable them to extent the Hand of God to the people who live around them, as I am not able to do so personally, who are hungry because they have not been able to work since the government put a ban on non essential activities. My small contribution will probably feed a thousand or more people over the next few month or so, until their crops can be harvested.

The best way for you to deal with your anger is to become a useful member of our society as God suggests in Isa 58.

My question to you is, "Are your present actions helping or blessing other people during this present time?"

Thats what ive been doing... Engaging with people, exchanging stories of pain and anguish, being unified in our criticism of Andrews...
Recently i got all my old cloths, shoes and things to give to the poor... I've given blood and registered to be an organ donor...
I've helped my friends to get through this, keeping contact with two guys in particular after they were released from prison into this dystopia... Im afraid they might walk off the bridge as well...
Panic, pain, stress, uncertainty, unemployment, torment, homelessness, sickness, financial debt and bankruptcy, anguish, death, trauma, mental instability, physical well being, spiritual peace... These are the things that Melbournians are dealing with... So excuse us for displying some frustration at the greed and incompetency of this Andrews government...

As for giving my testimony here its not a bad way to let off some steam while documenting the circumstances here...
Many people are in agreement with much of what i say... So for them it's satisfying to see other people who are interpreting things as they are...
Also describing the events here in Melbourne is helpful to people everywhere else, to watch out for these signs of totalitarianism in their towns...

My biggest concern has always been the replacement of our democratic parliament for the carte blanche dictate of Daniel Andrews...
Do u understand what i mean by this? Do u value democracy? If so then u should be condemning Andrews for choosing to dictate...
This is what has led Victoria to everything, right?... Not me, or my mates or my olds or anyone else here cos we've all done what has been asked.

There are a lot of angry people in Melbourne... You don't comprehend the situation here, u haven't experienced it or even seen it... Your just watching the news for a few minutes... We've had to deal with this nonsense every hour of every day... People here have every right to speak out against this government... There should be a royal commission after to make sure this never happens again anywhere in Australia...

Look... I dunno, I've tried to convey the situation as best as i could but i get the feeling you are just going to ignore all that and exonerate Andrews...
You'll probably continue to blame me or my mates for everything still and demand that we not make any criticisms... And you'll probably continue to be demanding and rude

Lord knows i tried...