Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[GracePeace]

In other words, you got nothing! Jumping from the emotion of trust to belief to obedience. In short, contrary to your claim, trust is not obedience according to the Bible.

The Greek for "believe" is "trust".

Any honest reader will see you for the dishonest person you are. You will pay for misleading people on the Day of Judgment.

 

[GracePeace]

In other words, you got nothing! Jumping from the emotion of trust to belief to obedience. In short, contrary to your claim, trust is not obedience according to the Bible.

John 3 says "belief" is the opposite of "disobedience"--"belief" is "obedience".
Romans 1 says faith is obedience.
Galatians 5 says taking on a false "persuasion" is "disobeying the truth"--ie, "belief in truth is obedience".

 

[Wrangler]

The Greek for "believe" is "trust".

I speak a English. I am Groot.

Any honest reader will see you for the dishonest person you are. You will pay for misleading people on the Day of Judgment.

Projecting. Your dishonesty is exposed, in claiming the Bible defines trust as obedience THEN citing no such verse WITH the snarkiness that you are not surprised I was unfamiliar with the verse.

When cornered you double down by going to a different language. What is this thread about? OSAS, Faith, Obedience? No. Forgiveness. I forgive you.

 

[GracePeace]

I speak a English. I am Groot.



Projecting. Your dishonesty is exposed, in claiming the Bible defines trust as obedience THEN citing no such verse WITH the snarkiness that you are not surprised I was unfamiliar with the verse.

When cornered you double down by going to a different language. What is this thread about? OSAS, Faith, Obedience? No. Forgiveness. I forgive you.

Your mind is warped. You don't know what you do, so you are forgiven.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Precious friend, Under God's Amazing GRACE, He Has Made it Quite Simple:

(1) believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

Results: all sins Forgiven, Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!

(2) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE thy neighbor as thyself!"
(Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)

(3) "Study" HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, for "Approval!"
(2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)

Eternal Results: reward, ruling, and reigning With CHRIST!

Precious friend(s): Please Be Very Richly Blessed!

But what is eternal life?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, you changed to faith from trust.

Faith = Belief + Action

Jesus is clearly setting the bar of expectation on action, on doing, in Matthew 7:21, right?

I disagree with that and...I think it muddies what is already so difficult for us.
I think the spirit of faith is trusting God and I think it’s the only way to GET to actions that please Him.
But I also think the only man who could understand that is one who has seen that all his outward actions are useless if his inward actions are anger and resentments. He eventually sees the farce of whitewashing a tomb and cries out to God a second time to save him from himself. I struggled over 14 years to stop my angers and resentments and I could not do it. I could not reason myself into stopping, I could not force myself into stopping. And when I gave up and trusted God to heal me, He quickly came.

You will not easily convince a man who has discovered what mercies God will give to someone who fully trusts Him and fully mistrusts himself, to go back to his futile attempts to be good.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Unsurprising you need to be told

John 3
36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Romans 1
5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith...

Galatians 5
7You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8This persuasion is not from him who calls you.

And in that Galatians passage, he is specifically saying, how have you come to think you can perfect yourselves by your own work and efforts? How have you come to think you can finish what God began?? Who on earth has bewitched you that you would think that possible?

 

[mailmandan]

Unsurprising you need to be told

John 3
36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in John 3:36 in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is "apeitheo" and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

Romans 1
5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith...

In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

Galatians 5
7You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8This persuasion is not from him who calls you.

Getting sidetracked by legalistic teachers results in not obeying the truth. Although choosing to believe in the Son is an act of obedience and multiple acts of obedience/works follow saving faith in Christ and are produced out of faith, belief/faith is not defined "as" multiple acts of obedience/works.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm not sure how this applies, but I want to throw it out there.

Gal 3:11, But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12, And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[Wrangler]

I think the spirit of faith is trusting God and I think it’s the only way to GET to actions that please Him.

Agreed. However, Scripture clearly and repeatedly states ACTION is a property those who get to heaven possess - that it is not a dead faith that passed though the gates of heaven.

Not sure why you disagree. I’ve written many times that the Gates of Heaven will not be breached by lip service. A maxim I’ve adopted is if you are not making mistakes - needing forgiveness - in advancing the kingdom of God, you are not trying (DOING) hard enough.

Said differently, it’s not all about our own salvation but WORKING in the Great Commission.

 

[GracePeace]

And in that Galatians passage, he is specifically saying, how have you come to think you can perfect yourselves by your own work and efforts? How have you come to think you can finish what God began?? Who on earth has bewitched you that you would think that possible?

He contrasts two methods (one legitimate, one not) whereby people may seek perfection. He doesn't say "not by works of law, therefore just believe"--that's not his argument.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Agreed. However, Scripture clearly and repeatedly states ACTION is a property those who get to heaven possess - that it is not a dead faith that passed though the gates of heaven.

Not sure why you disagree. I’ve written many times that the Gates of Heaven will not be breached by lip service. A maxim I’ve adopted is if you are not making mistakes - needing forgiveness - in advancing the kingdom of God, you are not trying (DOING) hard enough.

Said differently, it’s not all about our own salvation but WORKING in the Great Commission.

I'm completely okay with that as long as I dont judge others and leave that part to God, because for all I know, a man could go out on a street corner and holler for 10 years and God would not be pleased with him and a quiet and little noticed man who suffers while his faith is grown could never holler on the corner for even a day but be a more pleasing aroma to God. Many who are last will be first.

 

[GracePeace]

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in John 3:36 in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is "apeitheo" and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

Getting sidetracked by legalistic teachers results in not obeying the truth. Although choosing to believe in the Son is an act of obedience and multiple acts of obedience/works follow saving faith in Christ and are produced out of faith, belief/faith is not defined "as" multiple acts of obedience/works.

"If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame."

You're so excited about coming on here and making noise you don't even know what you're responding to. Go back, actually read the conversation, then come tell me where you went wrong, otherwise this is my last reply to you on this thread.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He contrasts two methods (one legitimate, one not) whereby people may seek perfection. He doesn't say "not by works of law, therefore just believe"--that's not his argument.

Not sure I'm following you here. It is those who trust who actually DO wind up to be law abiding. It is those who try hard to perfect themselves who Paul says about, do you think YOU can perfect what began by the Spirit? Who has made you think that?? I read it as, they left their trust in order to work, like a dog returning to its vomit and eating it again. Or like a man who begins to build a house then tears it down to build it again.

 

[GracePeace]

Not sure I'm following you here. It is those who trust who actually DO wind up to be law abiding. It is those who try hard to perfect themselves who Paul says about, do you think YOU can perfect what began by the Spirit? Who has made you think that?? I read it as, they left their trust in order to work, like a dog returning to its vomit and eating it again.

1. Some. want to assert "not justified by works of law--just believe" is his argument. It's not. He says "not justified by works of law--do what you are convicted by love to do, serve".

2. He says "you began by the Spirit" but he doesn't mean "you're not involved", just to clarify, just "you're supposed to be involved--but not by being under Law but by walking by grace and faith".

 

[stunnedbygrace]

1. Some. want to assert "not justified by works of law--just believe" is his argument. It's not. He says "not justified by works of law--do what you are convicted by love to do, serve".

2. He says "you began by the Spirit" but he doesn't mean "you're not involved", just to clarify, just "you're supposed to be involved--but not by being under Law but by walking by grace and faith".

I think...just trust God IS his argument. And I don’t think when the other man says, you must also have good works, his intent is to make men jump up and begin to rush around doing things. I think it is to get them to begin to see that having been exercised in the obedience of trust for awhile, there is then more to ask of God that we see we lack. I don’t know if that will make sense to anyone...like, it was not to spur them back to their vomit but to spur them to rather say, but God, what about the things I see I lack still? When will you give me them?

 

[GracePeace]

I think...just trust God IS his argument. And I don’t think when the other man says, you must also have good works, his intent is to make men jump up and begin to rush around doing things. I think it is to get them to begin to see that having been exercised in the obedience of trust for awhile, there is then more to ask of God that we see we lack. I don’t know if that will make sense to anyone...like, it was not to spur them back to their vomit but to spur them to rather say, but God, what about the things I see I lack still? When will you give me them?

The entire Epistle is Paul militating against the false Gospel of serving by the flesh/the Law; what, he wants from them instead is to walk by "faith which works through love", "serve through love".

 

[mailmandan]

"If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame."

You're so excited about coming on here and making noise you don't even know what you're responding to. Go back, actually read the conversation, then come tell me where you went wrong, otherwise this is my last reply to you on this thread.

I find that statement about making noise to be ironic and I know exactly what I am responding to. If you are only interested in stirring up contention and not seriously considering what I have to say in my posts, then don’t bother responding to me anymore.

 

[GracePeace]

I find that statement to be ironic and if you are only interested in stirring up contention and not seriously considering what I have to say in my posts, then don’t bother responding to me anymore.

Anyone who reads these interactions will get a good laugh. You refuse to humble yourself, fool.

 

[mailmandan]

Anyone who reads these interactions will get a good laugh. You refuse to humble yourself, fool.

Your true colors are obvious.