Freemasonry

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Taken

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I don't find a problem with an organization that accepts members regardless of their Faith or their "sacred" book, or that "sacred" books of multiple religions are available for their members.

As I said before, everyone is an indiviudal. God gave everyone Freewill to choose as they please. Are you suggesting you disagree with the Freemason organization to allow every member to have available what they have chosen?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Brian_B

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Are you suggesting you disagree with the Freemason organization to allow every member to have available what they have chosen?

What am I needing to clarify? Freemasonry is allowed to do what it wants. It is an organization with its own rules and regulations. Not once have I said that I disagree with what the Freemasons do or do not allow in their group.

I have a close friend who wants me to join the Masons. I'm trying to read a lot of material from Masonic sites and I'm struggling with the idea of having to accept what was in the article I posted.

Removing Freemasonry from the picture, do you believe it is Biblical for a Christian to view the Koran or other book of any religion as equal to the Bible?
 

Taken

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What am I needing to clarify? Freemasonry is allowed to do what it wants. It is an organization with its own rules and regulations. [/QUOTE]

All organizations have their own rules and regulations.

Not once have I said that I disagree with what the Freemasons do or do not allow in their group.

I never said you did. Thus I was asking you questions about your comments.

I have a close friend who wants me to join the Masons.

Since you have a friend in the Masons, it seems he would be the person to ask a plethora of questions, of WHY he is anxious for you to join.

I'm trying to read a lot of material from Masonic sites and I'm struggling with the idea of having to accept what was in the article I posted.

Regarding your point, it appears to me, the Organization is revealing it matters not on the Whole which member has a higher power they belive in, or what higher power that is...
In short...no bias for ones belief.

Removing Freemasonry from the picture, do you believe it is Biblical for a Christian to view the Koran or other book of any religion as equal to the Bible?

Is THAT ^ Biblical? No. I am bias for myself choosing Biblical Scripture over and above other religions Sacred books / teaching.

However I am NOT an "organization", who considers ones faith and accepts members of ALL faiths.

I could start a bowling "team", laying the ground work for that 'team' to join a "League", and follow the rules for signing up, practices, a particular place, and participate in particular times, wear particular clothes, pay the fees, etc.
While at the same time, not consider or give one thought to any member believing in a high power, or what that higher power is.
(OR, I could start such "team", and include and exclude certain people Based solely on their Faith and Belief in the SAME higher power as myself.)

And I could go to a Public Library, and find shelved "equally" side by side, Religious/Sacred books from numerous Religions.

Regarding the Freemasons...it appears the Organization has no bias on which higher power a member worships, as long as they confess they HAVE a higher power.

In short I would say; Every Organization has an Organized system of "ranks". And in an Organization that requires adherence to "A" Higher Power will most likely at some point, have a person RANKED in Higher or Lower Organizationsl positions, that have DIFFERENT Religious Beliefs and Adherences.

side note;
(From the time the US was established; English was the preferred common language and Biblical Principles were the Standards by which Law was promulgated.
Any observer can review history for the last 100 years in the US and see how that has detrimentally changed bit by bit.)

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Brian_B

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And I could go to a Public Library, and find shelved "equally" side by side, Religious/Sacred books from numerous Religions.

Equal in the terms on content. No other book contains the truth found in the Bible and I cannot act as if the teachings of another religion, hold the same truth.

I don't care about the beliefs of the other members my bowling But when my bowling league says I need to view the religion of other bowlers as equal to mine, this is where the problem resides with Freemasonry.

(OR, I could start such "team", and include and exclude certain people Based solely on their Faith and Belief in the SAME higher power as myself.)

This is another issue altogether. They are not the SAME. The god of Islam and Hindus are not the same as the true God of the Bible.


Since you have a friend in the Masons, it seems he would be the person to ask a plethora of questions, of WHY he is anxious for you to join.

He enjoys his lodge and the Widows Sons and wants me to be a part of it. He is new to the lodge (working on his 3rd degree) and doesn't know a lot of the answers. He said I can meet with members during my interview process and ask my questions there, but I have to drop $400 to get the ball rolling.
 

Taken

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But when my bowling league says I need to view the religion of other bowlers as equal to mine, this is where the problem resides with Freemasonry.

Wait...
I believe the Organization is not bias.
How did you determine YOU can not be bias regarding your own Religion?

He enjoys his lodge and the Widows Sons and wants me to be a part of it. He is new to the lodge (working on his 3rd degree) and doesn't know a lot of the answers. He said I can meet with members during my interview process and ask my questions there, but I have to drop $400 to get the ball rolling.

Sounds like His WANTS are not satisfactorily your WANTS. If He is the good friend you say he is...he should understand your honesty, that you have reservations about joining an Organization you believe has a reputation you are not comfortable being associated with and you are not interested in paying 400 bucks to get answers from someone you do Not KNOW or trust?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Brian_B

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Wait...
I believe the Organization is not bias.
How did you determine YOU can not be bias regarding your own Religion?

The Organization is not bias, and neither are the members.
 
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Taken

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The Organization is not biased,

Agree.


but neither are the members.

Disagree.

Ofcourse the members are bias. Each member has a Right to determine and practice their own FAITH according to their own spiritual beliefs.

It's the Organization bylaws that prohibits
prejudices of one member Against other members Faiths.

It's moreso of a "live and let live"..."to each his own"..."mind your own business"...regarding "Religious" beliefs.

You want to join the "brotherhood" of "free-masons",and FREELY worship as you please, and do Good will work along side of men of another Faith ... go ahead. If you don't feel you can do that without harboring prejudice against the other...then maybe that Organization is not for you. Perhaps you should stick with doing good WILL works in an Organization with Only men of your same faith.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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He does understand my situation. He and I are also having this discussion, because as a Christian I don't believe he should be involved with the lodge either.

Okay Gotcha.
Christian is a broad term, in what people understand and practice...no doubt JESUS is the key factor...but again the practice and teaching By men To men is wide and varied.

And introduce other factors ... clubs, organizations, governments, politics, music, clothing, philosophies, etc. INTO the mix and you have a potiental of the breaking of the bond of Christian brotherhood between two brothers.

Be cautious to not lose your friend.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Brian_B

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Of course the members are bias. Each member has a Right to determine and practice their own FAITH according to their own spiritual beliefs.

I cannot practice my own FAITH according to my beliefs, if Freemasonry expects me to accept other religions and faiths as equal to my own. I don't believe any Christian should.

I can't stand in a single room with a Muslim and a Hindu and pray to the same generic GAOTU, and pretend that it is the same "god".

The Great Architect of the Universe may or may not be triune; He may or may not be incarnate in Jesus Christ; He may or may not be equal to the universe; and He leaves it up to each person to decide what is “true” about Him. This is not the God of the Bible, by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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Taken

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I cannot practice my own FAITH according to my beliefs, if Freemasonry expects me to accept other religions and faiths as equal to my own. I don't believe any Christian should.

I think you are confused on the words:
Accept and Equal.

I do not believe you Are required to Accept an others Faith being Equal to your Faith....
But rather...
Accept an other is Equally entitled to believe and practice "his Faith", as is every member of freemasons.

I can't stand in a single room with a Muslim and a Hindu and pray to the same generic GAOTU, and pretend that it is the same "god".

And WHY would you?...any more than an other who does Not believe in your God, stand and pray to your God?

That's the Point! Regardless if you are in brotherhood with a group of men, to accomplish; "to do good will works, charity, aid one another in times of distress and need" ....you Each have the Equal Right to Pray To your own God WITHOUT...backlash.

The Great Architect of the Universe may or may not be triune; He may or may not be incarnate in Jesus Christ; He may or may not be equal to the universe; and He leaves it up to each person to decide what is “true” about Him. This is not the God of the Bible, by any stretch of the imagination.

According to YOUR Belief!

Basically you are saying you cannot accomplish a good will intended project with other men that do not Worship your SAME God. Freemasons would not be a good choice for you, since they are a brotherhood of men who work together, regardless of each others Faith.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
B

brakelite

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I think you are confused on the words:
Accept and Equal.

I do not believe you Are required to Accept an others Faith being Equal to your Faith....
But rather...
Accept an other is Equally entitled to believe and practice "his Faith", as is every member of freemasons.



And WHY would you?...any more than an other who does Not believe in your God, stand and pray to your God?

That's the Point! Regardless if you are in brotherhood with a group of men, to accomplish; "to do good will works, charity, aid one another in times of distress and need" ....you Each have the Equal Right to Pray To your own God WITHOUT...backlash.



According to YOUR Belief!

Basically you are saying you cannot accomplish a good will intended project with other men that do not Worship your SAME God. Freemasons would not be a good choice for you, since they are a brotherhood of men who work together, regardless of each others Faith.

Glory to God,
Taken
Except for the upper echelons where Lucifer demands total submission and obedience. Just like all other secret societies and their esoteric masters.
Not that I disagree with your ethos on equal freedom to choose whom one worships. The American Constitution was founded in that premise. Unfortunately there are always those who would take advantage of that premise to rise to the top and then turn that premise around to exclude certain people who are different to your own ideals.
 
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Taken

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Except for the upper echelons where Lucifer demands total submission and obedience. Just like all other secret societies and their esoteric masters.

A HUMAN master is simply a rank established by HUMANS. Meaning; not a dictator, but rather one who is appointed to keep the Order of intent on tract.

Not a secret IS the Freemasons DO have SUB-spinoff groups that SHARE Like minded spiritual Beliefs and Exercise their spiritual Beliefs in Exclusive gatherings and Rituals....and certainly some members may have high ranks in the freemasonary brotherhood.

It is the distain of a Converted Christian to HEAR of a well known man to be partaking in Devil worshiping.

IMO, many men NOT in the Freemasons PRESUME, every high ranking Freemason IS ALSO associated with and participating in a "Secret Devil Worshiping Group"... which personally, I find presumptuous and accusatory without a basis in fact.

Not that I disagree with your ethos on equal freedom to choose whom one worships. The American Constitution was founded in that premise. Unfortunately there are always those who would take advantage of that premise to rise to the top and then turn that premise around to exclude certain people who are different to your own ideals.

It is human nature to be yoked with Like minded people...and either trying to change the people different from you or exclude them from your presence.

Prisons, Exiles, Segrerations, Divisions, Set Apart....ALL intended to separate.

Jesus came to Divide and Set Apart...those With Him from those Without Him.

The Word of God and also the US Constitution
Have the same Principle...
The US Constitution...Come and Freely choose to agree and partake in our established Principles or depart from us.

No one can Force anyone to Agree with or Abide by those Principles...

And agree...many men have risen in ranks who spit in the face of Gods Principles and the US Constitutional Principles.

Jesus' response to posers was to Depart from Him.

American Liberals Response to liars, cheaters, thieves sneaking into the US Is: awe...let them come ...they're just like American liberals.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Brian_B

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I think you are confused on the words:
Accept and Equal.

The link I posted to the Grand Lodge of Iowa said specifically that each VSL is equal in every way.
“…they are, in every way, equal to one another.”

THE VOLUMES OF THE SACRED LAW (Extracted by V.W. Bro. Lin Boon Par, Singapore from a lecture delivered before the Lodge of Research, No. 218


According to YOUR Belief!

According to TRUTH; to Knowledge, from the Word!
Let me ask this Taken, Do you believe the Bible is just one story of many stories that may be right, or do you know the Bible is the Truth, the only Truth, to God through Christ our redeemer?

....you Each have the Equal Right to Pray To your own God WITHOUT...backlash.

Do you attend church? If so, is it a Christian church? Why not go to a mosque and pray, if you can make Allah, “your own God” when you pray? I cannot pretend to address Allah, no more than I can GAOTU. How can I practice my religion if I cannot pray professing Christ?

Basically you are saying you cannot accomplish a good will intended project with other men that do not Worship your SAME God. Freemasons would not be a good choice for you, since they are a brotherhood of men who work together, regardless of each others Faith.

Basically what I’m saying is you are more concerned with “good” works then men’s souls. Instead of focusing on leading others to Christ you participate in a group that allows people to die in their false religions?

What good works are you doing through Freemasonry that you cannot do through a Biblical church? While bonding with your eternal brotherhood and sisterhood through the blood of Christ instead of some silly oaths?

What's more important, doing good works, or following Christ? You are content with accomplishing an earthly, temporary goals while allowing others to die outside of Christ. You are putting the mission work of Freemasonry, above the commandments of Jesus.
 
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Taken

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The link I posted to the Grand Lodge of Iowa said specifically that each VSL is equal in every way.
“…they are, in every way, equal to one another.”

Already addressed that.
You are quoting an Organization.
You could also quote a Government Organization that SAYS All people are EQUAL or ALL employees are EQUAL....Are they?
Of course not.
All People are not the same age, gender, customs or beliefs.
All employees do not have the same knowledge, skills, experience, character, beliefs, etc.

The POINT is: under the Government's Organization is The Law: which dictates Treating another Equally...regardless of their differences...SAME with employees...Same with Freemasons...

It does not mean YOU HAVE TO Become LIKE Them, Be SUBJECT TO and forced To DO what they Do, Believe what They Do.

They inturn can not be forced to Do or Believe what YOU believe or listen to You Preaching, Your family disputes, Your job griping, your customs, etc.

It's Tolerating others to believe what THEY want Without a backlash from other members who believe differently, have different customs, speak differently, dress differently, are employed differently, have a different ethnic history, etc.

As I said, If You choose to be Only surrounded By other people who are Christians, who are Your same race, Eat the Same foods You do, Live in your SAME Kind of home, Worship what, Where, WHEN as you do, a citizen of your country, etc. you have that right and probably should not join the Freemasons...Because their rules for membership require members to treat each other equally.

THE VOLUMES OF THE SACRED LAW (Extracted by V.W. Bro. Lin Boon Par, Singapore from a lecture delivered before the Lodge of Research, No. 218

You are prejudice about you Faith. That is your right, as it is everyone else's in Freemasonry.

According to TRUTH; to Knowledge, from the Word!
Let me ask this Taken, Do you believe the Bible is just one story of many stories that may be right, or do you know the Bible is the Truth, the only Truth, to God through Christ our redeemer?

Look, I don't need you to grill me about My Beliefs and Faith. I speak quite frankly on this forum about what I believe and have said expressly I believe the Bible is all Truth, and the Knowledge of Standards and Principles by which I am satisfied the Lord Himself has provided to me.

Do you attend church?

A stick framed, brick and mortar man-made church? No.

If so, is it a Christian church?

Christian church? What's that?
A man-made building? With locked doors half the time? With Entertainment? With unsaved sinners? With a fashion show of the latest fashions, perfumes, and gossipping whispers?
With a Preacher trying to teach what HE thinks Scripture means? Men dozing off, people texting, ear buds listening to something else? With a doctrine and Rules I may or may not agree with? With crying babies and unruly children?

I am a member of a different Church...that is always open and the High Priest ever present with the absolute Truth.

Why not go to a mosque and pray, if you can make Allah, “your own God” when you pray?

Well obviously, because I have not Freely chosen to believe what Islam teaches!

I cannot pretend to address Allah, no more than I can GAOTU.

WHO asked you to or is forcing you to address "Allah"? Noone!

How can I practice my religion if I cannot pray professing Christ?

What or Who is Stopping you? Nothing! No one!

Basically what I’m saying is you are more concerned with “good” works then men’s souls.

And you know that...how?
Did I claim that? No.
Are there Organizations that regardless of your race, creed or religion do charity WORKS?
Sure. Is that a problem with me? No.
Is that a problem with you? Apparently so.
Do I care what irritates you? No.
I am not the source of your irritation, so stop with trying to make allegations of your feelings my problem.
You want to join an Organization that recognizes everyone has an equal right to their own religious beliefs...go ahead...if you can not tolerate doing charity work with people of another belief...then don't join up with them!

Instead of focusing on leading others to Christ you participate in a group that allows people to die in their false religions?

Is this your idea of Christianity?
You come asking about Freemasonry...
You are all bent out of shape because every member is entitled to believe in what they want...
You try to twist each member being treated equally...into some fallacy that you must believe as they do.
I said, it's live and let live. ALL can equally believe what the want...it is not a religious organization.
No one is going to stuff their belief down your throat, nor would you do that to others.
And YOU flat out Lie, and claim I am a member of the Freemasons.
Did I claim that? No.

So , there you are...claiming you are a Christian...and because I believe EVERYONE has a right to their own choices...you start making up Lies about me.

Boy, what a bad way to promote your style of Christianity!

What good works are you doing through Freemasonry

You are the one with the pack of Lies...why stop now? You tell me what good works I supposedly do through Freemasonry!

that you cannot do through a Biblical church? While bonding with your eternal brotherhood and sisterhood through the blood of Christ instead of some silly oaths?

More lies.

What's more important, doing good works, or following Christ? You are content with accomplishing an earthly, temporary goals while allowing others to die outside of Christ. You are putting the mission work of Freemasonry, above the commandments of Jesus.

You are an embarrassment to you own religion. Making up lies about me, because I believe every person has the FREEWILL to believe what THEY choose.
I have made my choice, and none of MY choices have been the pack of lies YOU are saying.
Really? Do you think YOU are doing good works by making up Lies about me?

And WHAT church do you attend that has taught YOU to make up Lies about other people?

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Brian_B

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It was an assumption on my part, that you are a Mason because of your stance, that doesn't make me a liar.

Sticks and stones don't make a church. It is the simply a group of believers coming together to worship, learn and praise. I'm sorry you don't have a good church to go to. There are a lot of bad ones, but there still are great ones.
 

TLHKAJ

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That's all information I've read, summarized. I've never been in the group, for the record.

Check out some links on them, from Christian sources:
-https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Freemasonry/deception.htm
-https://www.christianforums.com/threads/is-freemasonry-really-satanic.8044783/
-https://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm

As for the Shriners, I believe they are part of the lower-tier groups, that put on a public persona of being a charity to further the goal that they are "good". satan wants to be "God" afterall, and satanists think he is good, and God is evil.

Shriners - They're an Arabic organization (and arabs do not hold Christian beliefs, obviously) ( Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine (AAONMS, anagram for A MASON).

Checkout their logo: Shriners - Wikipedia.
It's a sword (something about one of their forefathers who didn't keep to the blood oath and was killed by fellow members for slipping their secrets), and a pharoah's headress. Egypt is considered part of the "mystery babylon" that has been rolled up from previous empires and religions. God, in the book of Revelation, is against "mystery babylon", the one-world religion during the tribulation, with satan claiming to be "God".

Which other mason groups did you mean other than Shriners? Illuminati? I think the Illuminati is a competing organization, although still under the umbrella of satan.

The illuminati is a masonic organization.
 
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Nancy

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The illuminati is a masonic organization.
While I was in HS my dad was bartender and I was dishwasher at a Shriners club. The place was named "The Ismailia Temple" some called it the "Mosque". People really thought they were a group of God sent benevolent people. When I got older, I learned much about them from my dad and, I would feel chills when he spoke of the rooms in the hallways of this massive building. He was only allowed on the first floor, as that is where he worked. I don't think the boss liked him very much, he looked down on him. Probably because he wasn't filthy rich like them...not sure but. He did get another job and quit. One of my deceased Aunts was pretty up there in rank, but she never bothered with our family and that was fine with me!
 

jaybird

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It started out as a place where intellectuals could meet and discuss ideas - which is always scary to the establishment
Many people treat Free Masonary as if it was the boogey man.
Personally, I see it as a social club that (like all groups) is what that person makes of it.

i agree with these guys.

the local small town level is nothing bad. our local lodge is a few guys that get together, make home made ice cream and talk about fishing and hunting, and they are all Christians.

the masons in the old days were places for people to get together and discuss enlightenment, a lot was a response to the monarchy and feudal system, why are the nobility born into wealth and have everything while the rest of us have nothing and have to serve them as slaves.
eventually the masons gained power and influence and with that you get corruption. it was masons that put all the pagan icons in the wash DC architecture, giant owls in the street plans. thats not Christian. DC has a statue of albert pike who was a child rapest and said Lucifer was the true god. i dont think these were original mason ideas.
 
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