From sinner to saint

[David H.]

Some would say we go from sinner to saint as soon as we are born again, I say it is a process, and a journey, a path every believer must walk in their own unique way.

When we are born again, we are Justified, declared righteous, imputed the righteousness of Christ upon us, thus we are instantly sanctified in the eyes of God. We are given the "earnest" which literally means a down payment of the Holy Ghost, and what we do with this "earnest" from this point on determines our place in the Kingdom.

A New born believer, though made righteous is yet to be Holy. this is the process, the journey we are all on. This theological terms is known as progressive sanctification. This is the work of the Holy Spirit which is given in earnest working in us to cleanse us from the inside out, making our motives and heart holy and not self-serving and proud.

Thus a a born again believer is made righteous by the blood of the Lamb, and made Holy by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. The big hinderance to the latter of these things is the belief that the born again believer is already a saint, I am here to tell you they are not.... They are counted among the faithful, but they remain on the journey to becoming saints from the sinners we were all born as.

Do not let Satan hinder your journey from sinner to saint by being satisfied with merely being righteous. None of us are perfect, but we are being made perfect as the love of God is perfected in us.

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:23)

 

[BarneyFife]

 

[Episkopos]

Some would say we go from sinner to saint as soon as we are born again, I say it is a process, and a journey, a path every believer must walk in their own unique way.

When we are born again, we are Justified, declared righteous, imputed the righteousness of Christ upon us, thus we are instantly sanctified in the eyes of God. We are given the "earnest" which literally means a down payment of the Holy Ghost, and what we do with this "earnest" from this point on determines our place in the Kingdom.

A New born believer, though made righteous is yet to be Holy. this is the process, the journey we are all on. This theological terms is known as progressive sanctification. This is the work of the Holy Spirit which is given in earnest working in us to cleanse us from the inside out, making our motives and heart holy and not self-serving and proud.

Thus a a born again believer is made righteous by the blood of the Lamb, and made Holy by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. The big hinderance to the latter of these things is the belief that the born again believer is already a saint, I am here to tell you they are not.... They are counted among the faithful, but they remain on the journey to becoming saints from the sinners we were all born as.

Do not let Satan hinder your journey from sinner to saint by being satisfied with merely being righteous. None of us are perfect, but we are being made perfect as the love of God is perfected in us.

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:23)

Agree with the process of being made a saint. However no one can ever have God's righteousness "imputed" to them. It is God's righteousness not ours. We can be "covered" by His righteousness but ONLY as we abide IN Him. We come UNDER (the covering of) grace in this way. Being declared righteous doesn't mean we are wise enough to remain so. No one inherits righteousness. There is a big difference between a GIFT of purity and the maturity it takes to retain it.

We are justified when born again...but that is not a permanent condition. The Pharisee in the parable became proud and was NOT justified. A bishop (overseer)... an exemplary disciple...can fall under the condemnation of the devil if he is given too much responsibility too soon.

"Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil." 1 Tim. 3:6

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Some would say we go from sinner to saint as soon as we are born again

Yes, Very Scriptural, and why we Disagree with "the progress to Become" a saint.

"saints" NOT in "man's sight," But, Clearly "In God's SIGHT," According
To HIS Pure, PERFECT, And PRESERVED Word Of Truth!:

Rom_1:7 "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called saints: Grace
to you and Peace from God our Father, and The Lord Jesus Christ."

Why do SELF-salvationists have "a process" to become "beloved of God"?

1Co_1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are
sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place
call upon The Name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"

Why do critics have "a process," When God "Calls them (PAST Tense),
sanctified saints"? Should we CHANGE Holy Scriptures? to read:

"sinners who are BEING sanctified TO BECOME saints"??? This process
reminds us of the first Question In The Bible: "Yea, hath God Said?"

Eph_1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by The Will of God, to
the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:"

Eph_3:8 "Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is
This GRACE Given, that I should preach among the Gentiles
The Unsearchable Riches Of CHRIST!"

Eph_6:18 "Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and
watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;"

Col_1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:
Grace be unto you, and Peace, from God our Father and The Lord Jesus Christ.

What, now, in the "critic's progress," do they now "call faithful brethren,"
sinners who are BECOMING saints? So would the critic also say that the saints
here are "the UNfaithful sinners" who are NOT In Christ, seeing as how
"they are NOT abiding" (BEING UNfaithful?), Correct?

How long Should we "MESS With God's HOLY Word Of TRUTH!"???

Col_1:26 Even The MYSTERY which hath been Hid from ages and
from generations, But Now Is Made Manifest to HIS saints:

Critics process THEIR Protest:
No, no, no, this can't be Correct; it must be: "His SINNERS, who in the
process of BECOMING saints," which is MORE Correct, Correct, Critics???

1Th_3:13 To the end He may Stablish your hearts unblameable in
holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our
Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

2Th_1:10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to
be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among
you was believed) in That Day.

(et al...)

1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion,
but of PEACE, as in all churches of the saints.

To prevent Confusion, now (with rule #2 of Bible study Rules) let us:

Rightly Divide (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

2) FALSE "christians
Claiming" they are, who DO NOT "believe The Gospel Of God's GRACE,"
BUT, "belief in another (Accursed) gospel, and another Jesus," who are
SELF-salvationists, religious, grew up in a "christian" home, confessing/professing
they are "christians" but are not, are STILL in UNbelief, and thus are:

"sinners" (UNrighteous) *, while "saints" Are the TRULY saved (righteous)"...
--------------------------
IF interested, Much More On:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born baby saints!!
+
All saints' "Assurance" Of God's ETERNAL Salvation!
-----------------------------------------
* such (with NO PEACE!) Should prayerfully And Carefully
"RE-Examine" themSELVES (2 Corinthians 13:5), Correct?

GRACE And PEACE In God's Simple Will!

 

[David H.]

"saints" NOT in "man's sight," But, Clearly "In God's SIGHT," According
To HIS Pure, PERFECT, And PRESERVED Word Of Truth!:

Did you happen to catch the fact that in ALL the verses you quoted about the saints, two groups are mentioned. You have the "faithful", "beloved of God", Those that call upon the name of the Lord Jesus", "faithful brethren" etc. juxtaposed with the saints?

Did you happen to Catch how Paul, the author of a majority of New Testament scripture claims to be the "least among the saints"?

Do you understand the difference between "instant sanctification" and "Progressive sanctification"?

What I am presenting to you here is the Great error of the Protestant movement, In reacting to the heresies of the Catholic church with the heretical doctrines such as veneration and prayers to the saints as well as the "indulgences" involved in these practices they threw out the baby (The sound doctrine of distinguishing between the faithful and the saints) with the dirty bathwater. Since then God has sent good men to correct this error such as Calvin, The Wesley's, The Holiness movements, Tozer etc. but each succumbed to the institutionalization of their own creed.

Calvin for example saw that some passages in scripture speak of predestination and divine selection, but because he failed tomake this distinction between the faithful and the saints, he succumbed to applying predestination to salvation. A doctrine that is clearly in scripture Predestination, thus became applied to the wrong people group and thus shutting the doors to evangelizing the world.

In response to this, the Wesley's/ Moravians brought back this need to evangelize to the world, and the idea of progressive sanctification, But they failed to see this distinction, and when The holiness movement of the late 19th century was born they were cast aside of the now formalizes methodism and its ideas on progressive sanctification, because they failed to see the goal of progressive sanctification was more than mere outward obedience.

So God raised up this holy remnant and the revivals of the early 20th century took place, and with tongues and the gifts of the Spirit falling on them, they were castigated even further by the institutionalized mainstream churches, who acting as the scribes of Jesus' day introduced such heresies as cessationism, and textualism. Now those Pentecostal have themselves been coopted by this very same error, looking only at numbers, and entertainment value and seducing spirits that bring fame and prosperity (Word faith, Kingdom now, etc.)

Everytime, the holiness movements are pushed aside, as the institutional church overtakes and binds the faithful under a yoke they were not meant to bear.

You see, most Christians fear falling into the yoke of legalism, but they fail to see that striving for holiness is the opposite of legalism, because it is the work of the Holy Spirit in us, not our own work, therefore we cannot take credit for this work and thus fall into self-righteousness and pride, " I am what I am by the grace of God"....

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Corinthians 15:10)

It is for this very reason many in the church use Ephesians 2:8-9 as an excuse for their imperfection all the while ignoring Ephesians 2:10 which states our need to move toward holiness..... In fact if you look at all of the writings of Paul you will see this play out in them, in warning of succumbing to legalism, he tells the believers to press on to the high calling of God in Christ.... That High calling is to walk the path of the saints that went before us my friend, not to stagnate in complacency of textualism and doctrine, and make excuses for our imperfections.

Once you rightly understand this distinction, ALL the denominationalism and "confusion" of Protestantism goes away and then you will truly understand the meaning of 1 Corinthians 14:33, and then you will see the unity of the Spirit come to fruition.

God bless.

 

[David H.]

However no one can ever have God's righteousness "imputed" to them. It is God's righteousness not ours. We can be "covered" by His righteousness but ONLY as we abide IN Him. We come UNDER (the covering of) grace in this way. Being declared righteous doesn't mean we are wise enough to remain so. No one inherits righteousness. There is a big difference between a GIFT of purity and the maturity it takes to retain it.

It is the gift of Righteousness, not of works of the law.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Philippians 3:9)

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (Romans 5:17)

The Gospel is a free gift, part of that gift is the instant sanctification we receive when we believe.

My Point being that righteousness and holiness are not the same thing. We are to take the gift of righteousness and yield ourselves to the work of the Spirit in us which we receive as an "earnest" (literally down payment), till we come to the full assurance of the faith (Hebrews 10:22) and the fulness of Christ. (Ephesians 4:13)

 

[Episkopos]

It is the gift of Righteousness, not of works of the law.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Philippians 3:9)

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (Romans 5:17)

The Gospel is a free gift, part of that gift is the instant sanctification we receive when we believe.

My Point being that righteousness and holiness are not the same thing. We are to take the gift of righteousness and yield ourselves to the work of the Spirit in us which we receive as an "earnest" (literally down payment), till we come to the full assurance of the faith (Hebrews 10:22) and the fulness of Christ. (Ephesians 4:13)

Actually the gift of righteousness is given when a person pays the full cost of entering into Christ. The initial grace is a gift that gets the ball rolling so to speak. We are talking about the Kingdom of God here.

We receive an initial grace as a sample of the full righteousness of God...wherein we are covered by God's presence so that we stay pure from any defilement...holy and without sin...without any spot or wrinkle.

If we received the righteousness of God as a covering at regeneration then no Christian would ever sin.

This is the elephant in the room. We are saved by God with the carnal life intact. That carnal life.....the outer man...is there to be sacrificed (like an animal sacrifice) so that God can then cover the inner man with His power.

Walking in the Spirit by power...resurrection power...is unheard of in todays church. Ask people if they have experienced the heavenly walk in Zion that is without sin. So either basically nobody is born again...OR....people need to be baptized in the Spirit (not just tongues)...in the POWER of the Spirit. That is when the righteousness of God covers us....when we walk IN the Spirit.

For lack of knowledge the Christian walk of most is frittered away in carnal assumptions and futility.We need to go to God in full surrender to receive the gift of HIS righteousness.

So this may sound subtle but...there is a free gift of grace....but to get the pearl of great price (as a bonus gift) you need to buy the field. And that field costs you everything (as per Jesus' teaching).

We are to seek God....us going to God....seeking the kingdom AND His righteousness. There is no gift of HIS righteousness unless we make the effort to go to God. Being born again is God sowing in us. Going to God is US sowing to God (sowing to the Spirit). That is how He abides in us AND WE IN Him.

 

[Lambano]

I ask without guile: Is it within man's power to even desire to surrender all to God? And then to actually surrender?

 

[Pearl]

I ask without guile: Is it within man's power to even desire to surrender all to God? And then to actually surrender?

Good question. I'm pretty sure we all know we should and that in our deep self we all want to. The truth is though, that it is difficult to let go altogether, so we might give a bit here and a bit there but I think as time passes we do surrender more and more but I don't think most of us will ever surrender wholly.

 

[Lambano]

Good question. I'm pretty sure we all know we should and that in our deep self we all want to. The truth is though, that it is difficult to let go altogether, so we might give a bit here and a bit there but I think as time passes we do surrender more and more but I don't think most of us will ever surrender wholly.

Pearl, I agree I know that I should surrender all. But I am also aware of how deep the fleshy self-preservation instinct runs in me. (Actually, it probably runs a lot deeper than I realize.)

 

[Pearl]

Pearl, I agree I know that I should surrender all. But I am also aware of how deep the fleshy self-preservation instinct runs in me. (Actually, it probably runs a lot deeper than I realize.)

We are afraid of what God might ask of us I think. Many years ago somebody 'gave' my husband a verse:
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

And it terrified him that God might ask something of him that he felt unable to give. A bit like Moses he felt that he wasn't able.

 

[Lambano]

This reminds me of a C.S. Lewis quote, which I posted in the Quotes thread:

Christian Quotes. | Page 3 | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

 

[Lambano]

And it terrified him that God might ask something of him that he felt unable to give.

Asking to surrender all of me may well be something I am unable to even want to give, much less to actually give, hence my original question.

And behind that is the question of "Why?" Fear of punishment? Because it's the right thing to do? Because I know I'm loved?

 

[David H.]

For lack of knowledge the Christian walk of most is frittered away in carnal assumptions and futility.We need to go to God in full surrender to receive the gift of HIS righteousness.

So this may sound subtle but...there is a free gift of grace....but to get the pearl of great price (as a bonus gift) you need to buy the field. And that field costs you everything (as per Jesus' teaching).

We are to seek God....us going to God....seeking the kingdom AND His righteousness. There is no gift of HIS righteousness unless we make the effort to go to God. Being born again is God sowing in us. Going to God is US sowing to God (sowing to the Spirit). That is how He abides in us AND WE IN Him.

As I mentioned in the OP, we all walk the same path, but our journey is unique to us. Full surrender for one is not the same as full surrender for another. for example, someone living in the filth of carnality before conversion is going to surrender in the direction of religiousity, while one who is in the grips of legalism is going to surrender in the direction of carnality, But both surrenders are just the start of the journey for these believers. The start being the surrender of our pride that comes with faith.

The journey from thereon is to God perfecting his love in us.... Agape Love which is the motive and mark of the saint in all they do. Peter outlines this journey in his life from faith to virtue to knowledge to temperance to patience to godliness to brotherly love to Agape love. (2 Peter 1:5-8)

Most Christians and those counted among the faithful are somewhere on this journey while the saint has had their heart purified and readied for this act of Agape love for the giving of their testimony (Martyria).

Religious people get focused on the outward appearances God is looking at the heart of men, the motives. One can do something righteous for all the wrong motives or one can do the same righteous deed for the right motives, one is the work of the human will and strength, the other empowered by the Spirit which has transformed us. One is fruitless the other produces the fruit of the Spirit.

Until the inside of the cup is clean, Our motives being in line with the will of God, any surrender and sacrifice we make of our outer self is fruitless and self-serving.

I Honestly do not know if the above answered your point in the above, so forgive me, but the Spirit led me to write and post this, and i do not quite understand why?
God bless

 

[marks]

I ask without guile: Is it within man's power to even desire to surrender all to God? And then to actually surrender?

Much will depend on your view of justification, and rebirth, and the new man, the inner man, reconciliation to God. Is the new man righteous? How reconciled are we? Where does sin live?

These are the questions that will show your answer.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Good question. I'm pretty sure we all know we should and that in our deep self we all want to. The truth is though, that it is difficult to let go altogether, so we might give a bit here and a bit there but I think as time passes we do surrender more and more but I don't think most of us will ever surrender wholly.

In the renewing of our minds, are minds are conformed to His, to will and to do what pleases Him.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

In the renewing of our minds, are minds are conformed to His, to will and to do what pleases Him.

Much love!

But are you yourself totally surrendered or do you relate to what has been said by myself and @Lambano ?

 

[dev553344]

Some would say we go from sinner to saint as soon as we are born again, I say it is a process, and a journey, a path every believer must walk in their own unique way.

When we are born again, we are Justified, declared righteous, imputed the righteousness of Christ upon us, thus we are instantly sanctified in the eyes of God. We are given the "earnest" which literally means a down payment of the Holy Ghost, and what we do with this "earnest" from this point on determines our place in the Kingdom.

A New born believer, though made righteous is yet to be Holy. this is the process, the journey we are all on. This theological terms is known as progressive sanctification. This is the work of the Holy Spirit which is given in earnest working in us to cleanse us from the inside out, making our motives and heart holy and not self-serving and proud.

Thus a a born again believer is made righteous by the blood of the Lamb, and made Holy by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. The big hinderance to the latter of these things is the belief that the born again believer is already a saint, I am here to tell you they are not.... They are counted among the faithful, but they remain on the journey to becoming saints from the sinners we were all born as.

Do not let Satan hinder your journey from sinner to saint by being satisfied with merely being righteous. None of us are perfect, but we are being made perfect as the love of God is perfected in us.

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:23)

We form habits and have worldly conditioning that the Lord patiently cleanses us from with the Holy Spirit.

 

[dev553344]

I ask without guile: Is it within man's power to even desire to surrender all to God? And then to actually surrender?

This is why I pray that God provide his will to be done. And that he provide me to desire his will to be done. I'm the same way.

 

[marks]

But are you yourself totally surrendered or do you relate to what has been said by myself and @Lambano ?

Oh, I relate! Absolutely! I think we're in a process of being restored, that is being managed by God, and while it's up to us to work with whatever He is doing in us, still, for the most part, we await Him as He instructs us and trains us.

I find that the corruption of our flesh runs deep, and is relentless, and that for the most part, there is a lifelong process of learning to identify the flesh, and learning to overcome it through faith.

That part that doesn't want to surrender is the vestige of our flesh, and we are learning to put that off, and put on the new man who always trusts, and always loves.

We wonder that we may never be complete in this life because we await His working, and His timing, Jesus is made unto us sanctification, we don't just do it ourselves. But we do work with Him.

Much love!