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farouk

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That is such an interesting question to ponder Nancy, I realise it was addressed to Willie- the thing is, what about the hypocrites , the proud, the unjust- how many sit in congregations claiming ‘ the name of Christ ‘ and yet, no one would put them in the same group as ‘ practicing sinners ‘ because their sins are hidden from view most of the time. I don’t think there would be anyone left in church if we could see into the hearts of everyone there..........
Rita
@Rita
Jeremiah 17.10: 'I the LORD search the heart'.

The Lord sees the hearts of those who practise the local church activities of Acts 2.42.

(I keep metaphorically pinching myself to remember that you are the person with the former 'Butterfly' screen name... )
 
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farouk

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KJV James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

If there is religion that is pure and undefiled, then there is a religion that is defiled. The difference is whether that religion is founded in selfishness or love. If you go to church because you want a blessing, them you're there for the wrong reasons. On the other hand, if you go because through the church you can pool your talents and means in order to help others by alleviating their suffering, then you are truly a Christian.
Wanting before the Lord to practise Acts 2.42 activities is a good motive, Godward.
 
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Rita

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Hi Farouk,
@Rita
Jeremiah 17.10: 'I the LORD search the heart'.

The Lord sees the hearts of those who practise the local church activities of Acts 2.42.

(I keep metaphorically pinching myself to remember that you are the person with the former 'Butterfly' screen name... )
I believe the Lord searches the heart of ‘ His People ‘ - ‘ The church ‘ - not just those who practice church activities ......
Yes, I couldn’t get back on through my old account - so I just decided to come back as me, but with the same profile picture x
Rita
 
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farouk

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Hi Farouk,

I believe the Lord searches the heart of ‘ His People ‘ - ‘ The church ‘ - not just those who practice church activities ......
Yes, I couldn’t get back on through my old account - so I just decided to come back as me, but with the same profile picture x
Rita
@Rita
Oh yes I agree that merely being seen to practise local church actitivies makes one a true believer. I was referring really to those spiritual activities in Acts 2.42 practised in faith from the heart, as led by the Spirit of God.
 

Pearl

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Hi Pat,
I wonder, was the deacon married? divorced?
He was married. Otherwise there would not have been a problem. After his divorce he married the woman.
 

Willie T

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Not precisely the same situation but certainly a similarly difficult one is seen here for the Jews returning out of captivity with forbidden wives and the children born of such forbidden marriages:

"Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law." Ezra 10:3

"And the children of the captivity did so. And Ezra the priest, with certain chief of the fathers, after the house of their fathers, and all of them by their names, were separated, and sat down in the first day of the tenth month to examine the matter.
And they made an end with all the men that had taken strange wives by the first day of the first month." Ezra 10:16-17
If we decide to live by a particular selected "law", then are we not bound (required) to go back to living under every one of all of the OT Laws?
 
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Willie T

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@Rita
Oh yes I agree that merely being seen to practise local church actitivies makes one a true believer. I was referring really to those spiritual activities in Acts 2.42 practised in faith from the heart, as led by the Spirit of God.
Are you certain you typed that sentence the way you intended to?????
 

Joseph77

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Are you certain you typed that sentence the way you intended to?????
'led by ' some spirit.... The spirit that approves of and tries to get others to sin, with things never found in the life to come - in heaven there are no tats....
 

Joseph77

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If we decide to live by a particular selected "law", then are we not bound (required) to go back to living under every one of all of the OT Laws?
Just for comparison (thanks), like trying to obey a particular traffic law - like don't run red lights - and not obey other laws, like no adultery ?
 

amadeus

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Hi John,
Is Ezra 10:3 saying to put these wives and the children they had with them, out of the home, land? Don't say they were to be killed!!!! Yikes!
Not directly killed but still not an easy decision for person to make. Unfortunately we often cause ourselves to be in such a situation... or worse, we cause our children through no direct fault of their own to be in such situations.

In a time when most women were very dependent on men to survive and of course when all young children are very dependent, how could a man who had any feelings of compassion at all, do such a thing?


Consider Abraham:

"Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son." Gen 21:10-11


"And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs." Gen 21:14-15


Reading those verses in context we will see that with Ishmael it ended OK because it was not just Sarah who insisted that Hagar be sent away. God spoke to Abraham confirming that he was to do what Sarah told him... but that did not make it an easy thing to do.

People are born into this world of men with no real hope and then by their own actions they worsen their own situation... or worse, they worsen the situation of their own children who are completely dependent upon them. God sees the whole picture here and He also sees where a person could be and even though it may be a very painful way, He shows them a better way. Who is willing to follow it?

It appears so simple when we look at Adam and Eve: If only they had chosen to obey God...? But they did not so and so it has continued with men from that day to this...


Look at these OT verses:

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him" Lev 20:9

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deut 21:18-21


We may not be followers of Moses, but is not the God who gave such laws to Moses the very same God that we serve? Why were the laws seemingly so harsh? Really God is merciful, but when a person repeatedly goes against
God when the person knows better, how long should he expect God to forgive him and embrace him as his beloved child one more time?

"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Heb 12:7-8


Relate this then if you can also to what Jesus said here:

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:42-44


Here Jesus explains himself further:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matt 10:34-37

And here:


"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matt 12:47-50

God has a plan, which when followed will make things ultimately better for those who really love Him... but the Way we are to walk, that highway of holiness, is certainly not one where we will tread only on the soft and lovely petals of the rose. There are also thorns!

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

 
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Joseph77

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Study Bible
Shecaniah's Encouragement
…Then Shecaniah son of Jehiel, an Elamite, said to Ezra:
“We have been unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women from the people of the land,

yet in spite of this, there is hope for Israel.

So now let us make a covenant before our God to send away all the foreign wives and their children,

according to the counsel of my lord and of those who tremble at the command of our God.

Let it be done according to the Law. Get up, for this matter is your responsibility, and we will support you. Be strong and take action!”…
Berean Study Bible · Download
 

Joseph77

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excerpt from BibleHub

"/// ... ... ... according to the Law.
וְכַתּוֹרָ֖ה (wə·ḵat·tō·w·rāh)
Conjunctive waw, Preposition-k, Article | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8451: Direction, instruction, law
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 3. - Now therefore let us make a covenant. Shechaniah had probably in his thoughts the (comparatively) recent covenant which the people had made in the reign of Zedekiah (Jeremiah 34:15) on the subject of releasing their Hebrew slaves after six years of servitude. That covenant was entered into before God, in the temple, by the princes and all the people (ibid. ver. 10). To put away all the wives. Shechaniah probably held that marriages made contrary to the law were not merely wrongful, but invalid. At any rate, since the law of Moses, as interpreted by the Rabbis, allowed divorce "for every cause" (Matthew 19:3), the remedy suggested was feasible, though scarcely one which the civil power could enforce. And such as are born of them. "Filii matrem sequuntur" was a maxim of Roman, and, apparently, also of Jewish law. Young children require especially a mother's care. Older ones might be already tainted with idolatry. It was best, Shechaniah thought, to make a clean sweep, and dismiss the children as well as the mothers. According to the counsel of my lord. Ezra had not yet advised any course; but Shechaniah gathers from the horror which he has expressed what his wishes must be. Let it be done according to the law. Either, "Let the law, which forbids these marriages, be in this way satisfied" (Dathe); or, "Let the repudiation of the wives take place in the mode prescribed by the law" (see Deuteronomy 24:1).
Ezra 10:3 Commentaries"
 

amadeus

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If we decide to live by a particular selected "law", then are we not bound (required) to go back to living under every one of all of the OT Laws?
I was not suggesting that anyone go back and try to follow the prescribed laws God gave to Moses. Those people for the most part had to go through or after someone like Moses. They did not have the Holy Ghost within themselves to Light their pathway. For them Moses or Joshua were the ones to lead them. We are, or should be, as individuals today, more like Abraham or Moses or Joshua with a direct communication line with God. When we don't obey and follow the lead of the Spirit, as for instance when Moses smote the rock rather that speak to it, we are trouble as he was in trouble.

The OT laws when misused or not used did not accomplish God's purpose as in the case of Naboth [Jezebel used the written law against him to have him killed. I Kings 21]. Similarly the Holy Ghost in us will not accomplish God's purpose in us if we are regularly quenching the Spirit rather than listening and following...
 
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Nancy

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Not directly killed but still not an easy decision for person to make. Unfortunately we often cause ourselves to be in such a situation... or worse, we cause our children through no direct fault of their own to be in such situations.

In a time when most women were very dependent on men to survive and of course when all young children are very dependent, how could a man who had any feelings of compassion at all, do such a thing?


Consider Abraham:

"Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son." Gen 21:10-11


"And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs." Gen 21:14-15


Reading those verses in context we will see that with Ishmael it ended OK because it was not just Sarah who insisted that Hagar be sent away. God spoke to Abraham confirming that he was to do what Sarah told him... but that did not make it an easy thing to do.

People are born into this world of men with no real hope and then by their own actions they worsen their own situation... or worse, they worsen the situation of their own children who are completely dependent upon them. God sees the whole picture here and He also sees where a person could be and even though it may be a very painful way, He shows them a better way. Who is willing to follow it?

It appears so simple when we look at Adam and Eve: If only they had chosen to obey God...? But they did not so and so it has continued with men from that day to this...


Look at these OT verses:

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him" Lev 20:9

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deut 21:18-21


We may not be followers of Moses, but is not the God who gave such laws to Moses the very same God that we serve? Why were the laws seemingly so harsh? Really God is merciful, but when a person repeatedly goes against
God when the person knows better, how long should he expect God to forgive him and embrace him as his beloved child one more time?

"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Heb 12:7-8


Relate this then if you can also to what Jesus said here:

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:42-44


Here Jesus explains himself further:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matt 10:34-37

And here:


"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matt 12:47-50

God has a plan, which when followed will make things ultimately better for those who really love Him... but the Way we are to walk, that highway of holiness, is certainly one where we will tread only on the soft and lovely petals of the rose. There are also thorns!

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28


Thank you John,
Just hate hearing things like babies being smashed against rocks, women and children being killed...what did the children ever do? Yes, I know this all sounds so naive on my part, it's just hard for me sometimes to reconcile the OT God with the NT God.
It's okay though, His ways are higher and His plans are always better.
Bless you!
 

amadeus

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Thank you John,
Just hate hearing things like babies being smashed against rocks, women and children being killed...what did the children ever do? Yes, I know this all sounds so naive on my part, it's just hard for me sometimes to reconcile the OT God with the NT God.
It's okay though, His ways are higher and His plans are always better.
Bless you!
People, and this certainly or especially includes 'Christians', do not realize that as the positioned ministers are responsible for advising and teaching, so are parents responsible for advising and teaching. We will make mistakes and God understands that, but we must try to do things the best way that we know and can... Goes back to Solomon:

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov 22:6

Who can do that? Well if the parents have a Helper in the Holy Ghost, are they making the most of the help available to properly guide their own children?
 
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Joseph77

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Thank you John,
Just hate hearing things like babies being smashed against rocks, women and children being killed...what did the children ever do? Yes, I know this all sounds so naive on my part, it's just hard for me sometimes to reconcile the OT God with the NT God.
It's okay though, His ways are higher and His plans are always better.
Read in context, and as God Means it (His Meaning, not man's)
it makes a total difference.
Always asking God for HIS Wisdom, TRUSTING HIM.
 
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Nancy

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People, and this certainly or especially includes 'Christians', do not realize that as the positioned ministers are responsible for advising and teaching, so are parents responsible for advising and teaching. We will make mistakes and God understands that, but we must try to do things the best way that we know and can... Goes back to Solomon:

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov 22:6

Who can do that? Well if the parents have a Helper in the Holy Ghost, are they making the most of the help available to properly guide their own children?

Truth. It's a shame that so many parents these days have nothing to do with God so, their children will follow right along with them. I also know a few folks out there who come from Godly homes and have rejected God so. I wonder if those will once again turn towards Him down the road, if God will give them the grace to live long enough...
 
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amadeus

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Truth. It's a shame that so many parents these days have nothing to do with God so, their children will follow right along with them. I also know a few folks out there who come from Godly homes and have rejected God so. I wonder if those will once again turn towards Him down the road, if God will give them the grace to live long enough...
We can pray for them.

See something now in reverse! When our two children were teenagers, just about finished with high school, it was mom and dad who drifted away from God. Son and daughter were fully involved in serving God praying, reading their Bibles, attending church services and special fellowship meetings faithfully... when we were astray.

They held on... keeping us in their prayers... until God hold of me and my wife and drew us back in...
 
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Joseph77

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Something in Scripture? About GOD RESTORING the hearts of fathers to the sons, and sons to the fathers, daughters to mothers, and mothers to daughters, and mothers-in-law.... ?
 

amadeus

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Something in Scripture? About GOD RESTORING the hearts of fathers to the sons, and sons to the fathers, daughters to mothers, and mothers to daughters, and mothers-in-law.... ?
Perhaps this reference to John the Baptist?

"And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." Luke 1:17
 
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