Giants In America

[pia]

In other words, since Noah was born after the generations of Adam, then that makes his seed perfect by default whose flesh was not corrupted. The giants however, were not born after the seed of Adam, but of something other than human origin. Also, I'm pretty certain that the spirits of these abominations are the same ones roaming about in "dry places" seeking a body to inhabit, but this may be a subject for another thread.

Yeah I have often wondered that myself. I have not asked the Lord about enemy forces, I accept that they are there, but I don't particularly want to entertain them, if you know what I mean, also He hasn't volunteered information on therm, only on how to stand against them....Invaluable ! Thanks for that.....

 

[pia]

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

the second "generations" likely means something else, many translations

These are the family records of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among his contemporaries; Noah walked with God.

or similar. btw i got that by highlighting "Noah was perfect in his generation" in your post, then Rclicking and clicking "search google for." are you using chrome?

No I don't use chrome, will that exclude me?

 

[Job]

No I don't use chrome, will that exclude me?

I don't use Chrome either, but it still gets the job done.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I thought that I should introduce into the discussion a concept of a higher order of thought. This being the sovereignty of God. Starting from our God's basic "traits of character or defining qualities," our God has defined His being in ways meant to express infinities. Our God is omnipotent, the very source of all power and authority, Creator of all things. Our God is omnipresent, which is to say that there is no place or time where He is not present. Our God is omniscient which means that He is both the source of all knowledge, the revealer of secrets, and the revealer of our deepest thoughts.
These are concepts that can make us very uncomfortable, but they have been understood by at least some men for 6 millennia. What these men didn't grasp were the things Jesus came revealing in His person and from the scripture, those hidden qualities, hidden by our fallen perception, of His mercy, His grace, and His love.
Given these truths, we should understand that nothing that has ever happened or that ever will happen has taken God by surprise, including the fall of man or the fall of 1/3rd the heavenly host. He knew it, He allowed it, He knew the outcome. His revealed purpose is to create a peculiar people of His own to worship and honor Him and to inherit all creation as coinheritors with our Lord and Savior. And if He allowed these giants among men then they served His purposes whether they were righteous or evil.
Thoughts?

 

[michaelvpardo]

GINOLJC. estate is not a place or domain. according to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, Estate: ESTA'TE,n. [L. status, from sto, to stand. The roots stb, std and stg, have nearly the same signification, to set, to fix. It is probable that the L. sto is contracted from stad, as it forms steti.
1. In a general sense, fixedness; a fixed condition; now generally written and pronounced state.
She cast us headlong from our high estate.
2. Condition or circumstances of any person or thing, whether high or low. Luke 1.

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day". without getting into the definition of "Angel" here which might confuse you, I'll just considerate the word "estate".

looking at the definition above, it is a condition just like the first Adam. attention, Adam fell right .. but the question from where? off a cliff? or how about the back of a milk truck? no, he fell from grace with God. here fell, or fall is not physical act. just as estate here in Jude is not physical act.

I don't read Greek, but Young's literal translation uses the word principality, and would be more accurate than a later Latin translation such as the vulgate. Principalities are regions under the authority of princes. This doesn't rule out human authorities, but it would seem that human authorities have derived their power from heavenly ones. War on earth would seem to mirror war in heaven in that regard. We have the new testament revelation that our enemies are not flesh and blood...

 

[pia]

I don't use Chrome either, but it still gets the job done.

lol, this message came up after the last one, so I had not seen your reply yet...I am not that dense, just yet

 

[pia]

I don't read Greek, but Young's literal translation uses the word principality, and would be more accurate than a later Latin translation such as the vulgate. Principalities are regions under the authority of princes. This doesn't rule out human authorities, but it would seem that human authorities have derived their power from heavenly ones. War on earth would seem to mirror war in heaven in that regard. We have the new testament revelation that our enemies are not flesh and blood...

That about sums it up. Mankind has access to both sides, and makes a choice thousands of times a day, which side to allow in any given situation. we are in a bind without Christ, that is FOR sure......

 

[Dcopymope]

Yeah I have often wondered that myself. I have not asked the Lord about enemy forces, I accept that they are there, but I don't particularly want to entertain them, if you know what I mean, also He hasn't volunteered information on therm, only on how to stand against them....Invaluable ! Thanks for that.....

Well, many people believe that the demons, or 'devils' are fallen angels, but the one thing that doesn't add up about this is the fact that a real angel doesn't need to possess another persons body to appear. If an angel wants to physically manifest, they just do it, unlike every demonic case where they have to take possession of someone else's body. And since Jesus compared our glorified bodies to that of an angel, I doubt he would refer to an angel as an "unclean spirit", because that by default would also make the second Adam "unclean".

(Matthew 12:43-44) "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. {44} Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished."

(Jude 1:6) "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

One could come to the conclusion of who these demons really are by simple deductive reasoning, like any detective would in solving a criminal case, no extra Biblical source necessary. If they don't fit the behavior and description of an angel, and we know that human spirits aren't roaming the earth, then that only leaves the giants of Genesis six as the most likely origin.

 

[pia]

Well, many people believe that the demons, or 'devils' are fallen angels, but the one thing that doesn't add up about this is the fact that a real angel doesn't need to possess another persons body to appear. If an angel wants to physically manifest, they just do it, unlike every demonic case where they have to take possession of someone else's body. And since Jesus compared our glorified bodies to that of angel, I doubt he would refer to an angel as an "unclean spirit", because that by default would also make the second Adam "unclean".



One could come to the conclusion of who these demons really are by simple deductive reasoning, like any detective would in solving a criminal case, no extra Biblical source necessary. If they don't fit the behavior and description of an angel, and we know that human spirits aren't roaming the earth, then that only leaves the giants of Genesis six as the most likely origin.

I can only agree with you on the logic.........However I can only accept something as Truth,,when I actually KNOW about such a thing, whatever it may be.
Certainly within the paranormal world, they get astonishing evidence of these beings...Electronic Voice Phenomena ( EVP's ), as well as dis embodied voices which all there can hear.......shadow 'people' galore by now, on film.........Many times what they think is a child spirit, ( which simply cannot be the Truth, as Jesus answered one of my questions in this regard and He said :" All children belong to God ! " ), these 'child' spirits soon turn into something entirely different and often wreak havoc in peoples lives, and most of the paranormal investigators don't seem to have a clue what they are REALLY dealing with. Dangerous profession........I agree with you on the angels, however the fallen ones no longer have any light in themselves, therefore that scripture " the devil can appear as an angel of light " has been misunderstood, his ideas may seem like they provide us with 'light' but it will all soon turn to darkness, but he cannot any longer shine with The Light of The Lord, as he once did.
Interesting subject for sure !

 

[Dcopymope]

I can only agree with you on the logic.........However I can only accept something as Truth,,when I actually KNOW about such a thing, whatever it may be.
Certainly within the paranormal world, they get astonishing evidence of these beings...Electronic Voice Phenomena ( EVP's ), as well as dis embodied voices which all there can hear.......shadow 'people' galore by now, on film.........Many times what they think is a child spirit, ( which simply cannot be the Truth, as Jesus answered one of my questions in this regard and He said :" All children belong to God ! " ), these 'child' spirits soon turn into something entirely different and often wreak havoc in peoples lives, and most of the paranormal investigators don't seem to have a clue what they are REALLY dealing with. Dangerous profession........I agree with you on the angels, however the fallen ones no longer have any light in themselves, therefore that scripture " the devil can appear as an angel of light " has been misunderstood, his ideas may seem like they provide us with 'light' but it will all soon turn to darkness, but he cannot any longer shine with The Light of The Lord, as he once did.
Interesting subject for sure !

(2 Corinthians 11:12-16) "But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. {13} For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. {14} And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. {15} Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. {16} I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little."

I never took this literally in a sense of an angel actually appearing as a sort of light being at all. In context, he is using 'light' as symbolic of truth. God is referred to as light because within him there is no darkness, or "evil". Can man tell the difference between the "light" espoused by Satan from the "light" given by God? If you want to take this literally, then I still see no reason why Satan and his angel pals would need to appear before anyone as a light being to deceive them anymore than any con man on the street.

 

[Job]

Well, many people believe that the demons, or 'devils' are fallen angels,

It is my belief that they are the offspring of the sons of God.

 

[pia]

I never took this literally in a sense of an angel actually appearing as a sort of light being at all. In context, he is using 'light' as symbolic of truth. God is referred to as light because within him there is no darkness, or "evil". Can man tell the difference between the "light" espoused by Satan from the "light" given by God? If you want to take this literally, then I still see no reason why Satan and his angel pals would need to appear before anyone as a light being to deceive them anymore than any con man on the street.

That was my point. However well meaning church people have tried to convince me over the years that it was so.. There is most definitely an actual Light, which encompasses Jesus so very much at times, He seems able to appear in at least 3 different states ( perhaps more, but that's what I have experienced so far ), and when you see Him in a darkened room, He appears as if He is standing in the brightest sunlight . Guess He has His reasons for that also, He always does !

 

[Dcopymope]

That was my point. However well meaning church people have tried to convince me over the years that it was so.. There is most definitely an actual Light, which encompasses Jesus so very much at times, He seems able to appear in at least 3 different states ( perhaps more, but that's what I have experienced so far ), and when you see Him in a darkened room, He appears as if He is standing in the brightest sunlight . Guess He has His reasons for that also, He always does !

Well, he didn't need a light around his body to convince the many he encountered that he is the Son of God, the miracles he performed did that for him alone, which he clearly stated was his primary intention in performing them in the first place. He didn't do it just because he was a bleeding heart.

 

[101G]

Is it your belief that the sons of God never took wives or produced offspring?

GINOLJC, it is my belief that the term sons of God here in Genesis chapter 6 are not speaking of angels, but humans. Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" any angel, means any angel. at any time means any time, which includes genesis 6. to me the case is closed. and as said about giants in the bible, even when expressing height, not one of them was way over 14' tall. just add up the measurement. view those videos in post 22 again, they perfectly give you the actual heights, and where these so called giants came from.

my beliefs are bible based. All men (male and female) came from one man Adam, and one woman name Eve. Noah came from this lineage also. from him and his wife, after the flood, came every nation now on earth. I believe where many believers are mistaken at in Genesis 6 is the lack of knowledge that Adam and Eve had children inside the garden of Eden before they had Cain and abel outside the garden. and there are clear evidence of this in scriptures. Genesis 3:16, and 3:20 respectively. when people take the word of God and not man then all these theories are put down. truth stands

 

[101G]

I don't read Greek, but Young's literal translation uses the word principality, and would be more accurate than a later Latin translation such as the vulgate. Principalities are regions under the authority of princes. This doesn't rule out human authorities, but it would seem that human authorities have derived their power from heavenly ones. War on earth would seem to mirror war in heaven in that regard. We have the new testament revelation that our enemies are not flesh and blood...

Thanks for your response, this is how discussions go, BY ASKING QUESTIONS. yes, true it can be rendered principality. but one must understand how it is used in context. example, Psalms 136:23 "Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever". if one would read the context it is stating the "condition" they was in. now Jude again, Jude 1:5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

if you would read the commentaries, example Gill's: Or "principality"; that holy, honourable, and happy condition, in which they were created", and some fell from. now, Pool's commentary Kept not their first estate; in which they were created, their original excellency, truth, holiness, purity, holiness & purity is a condition. again which they they fell from. now Barnes's commentary do a good job in using your definition of "principality" in the condition from which they fell. Verse 6. And the angels which kept not their first estate. A second case denoting that the wicked would be punished. 2Pet 2:4. The word rendered estate (αρχην) is, in the margin, principality. The word properly means, beginning, commencement; and then that which surpasses others, which is first, etc., in point of rank and honour; or pre-eminence, priority, precedence, princedom. Here it refers to the rank and dignity which the angels had in heaven. That rank or pre-eminence they did not keep, but fell from it.

in all three cases in Jude here, God is dealing with a condition of sin, by giving example of the past, (REMEMBER in verse 5) of A. his own people Israel who sinned in Egypt, and B. the angels who sinned in heaven. and C. the gentiles at large, (not his own) in the example of Sodom and Gomorrha. see, what Jude is doing is showing how God deals with sin, a CONDITION. hoped this helped.

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm a little afraid to ask, but how do we know that an angel "does not have reproductive organs?"

i don't men to imply that i know for a fact, but that it is pretty unlikely simply for all the cans of worms it opens up

If that's actually true why do some angels have a pair of wings to cover their feet? That expression is supposedly a euphemism for covering their private parts, though I'm unconvinced .

ya i've heard that too, wish the Bible would note euphemisms or something lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

No I don't use chrome, will that exclude me?

ha no, just takes an extra step; now you gotta highlight/copy, and paste manually into google

 

[Job]

GINOLJC, it is my belief that the term sons of God here in Genesis chapter 6 are not speaking of angels, but humans. Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" any angel, means any angel. at any time means any time, which includes genesis 6. to me the case is closed. and as said about giants in the bible, even when expressing height, not one of them was way over 14' tall. just add up the measurement. view those videos in post 22 again, they perfectly give you the actual heights, and where these so called giants came from.

my beliefs are bible based. All men (male and female) came from one man Adam, and one woman name Eve. Noah came from this lineage also. from him and his wife, after the flood, came every nation now on earth. I believe where many believers are mistaken at in Genesis 6 is the lack of knowledge that Adam and Eve had children inside the garden of Eden before they had Cain and abel outside the garden. and there are clear evidence of this in scriptures. Genesis 3:16, and 3:20 respectively. when people take the word of God and not man then all these theories are put down. truth stands

Ok.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I never took this literally in a sense of an angel actually appearing as a sort of light being at all. In context, he is using 'light' as symbolic of truth. God is referred to as light because within him there is no darkness, or "evil". Can man tell the difference between the "light" espoused by Satan from the "light" given by God? If you want to take this literally, then I still see no reason why Satan and his angel pals would need to appear before anyone as a light being to deceive them anymore than any con man on the street.

Just curious, what do you make of the myriads of appearances of "the virgin Mary", the archangel, Gabriel, and others reportedly witnessed by various devout Catholics over the last 2000 years? Fantasy? Wishful thinking? Joan of Arc claimed such visions, was she simply deluded? I've read about an appearance of St. Michael to some in that church in which the archangel warned the church to have services in honor of him and the angels (in direct contradiction of Moses). In my mind that had to either be a satanic vision, or the archangel would have to have seen that church as enemies of God, to bow at His holy ones feet. I prefer to think it delusion, but then where did such delusion come from?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Well, he didn't need a light around his body to convince the many he encountered that he is the Son of God, the miracles he performed did that for him alone, which he clearly stated was his primary intention in performing them in the first place. He didn't do it just because he was a bleeding heart.

If they were so convinced, why John 6:66?