God’s name….
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PS95
Well-Known Member
R-man? Perhaps you missed it, but I already addressed this here in this thread in a post to you. @Runningman See my reply here--
God’s name….
Technically the Bible never says to call on the name of Jesus to be saved. It says "Call on the name of the Lord to be saved" and it is quoted to an Old Testament verse where that Lord being called on isn't named Jesus. The New Covenant name for salvation hasn't changed or been replaced, but...
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I was originally told that by PS95 who knows a lot about what they believe. It's also on their website.
The following is an excerpt from this page on their official website: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1985882?q=Rom+6:7&p=par
4. Why is fallen mankind heavily indebted to God, and why can we not relieve ourselves of this debt?
In the Scriptures, sins are likened to debts. (See Matthew 6:12, 14; 18:21-35; Luke 11:4.) All men are sinners and are, therefore, heavily in debt before God. “The wages sin pays is death.” (Romans 6:23) Since they had been “sold under sin” by their forefather Adam, his descendants could do nothing to relieve themselves of this crushing debt. (Romans 7:14) Death of the debtor alone could wipe it out, “for he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) No good works done during a sinner’s lifetime could buy back what Adam lost, nor even give him a righteous standing before God.—Psalm 49:7, 9; Romans 3:20.
The following is an excerpt from this page on their site: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1974730?q=Rom+6:7&p=par
Will those who are raised to life on earth still be imperfect and afflicted with Adamic sin, since Romans 6:7 says that a person “who has died has been acquitted from his sin”?—U.S.A.
Romans 6:7 reads: “For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” A consideration of the context shows that the apostle Paul was discussing spirit-anointed Christians alive at that time. While still alive, they had been baptized into Christ Jesus and received the valid prospect of heavenly life. In order to be anointed with holy spirit and accepted as spiritual sons of God, they had to die to their former course in life as imperfect humans, have their sins forgiven by God and have human perfection imputed to them.
But in making this comment with regard to anointed Christians, Paul was drawing on a natural and actual illustration. In its broad application, it could correctly be said that one who has died has been acquitted from sin.
Death, not the dying process in itself, is the full payment for sin. The Bible says: “The wages sin pays is death.” (Rom. 6:23) This means that when a person has died his sinful record no longer stands against him. And were it not for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and God’s purpose to resurrect the person, he would never live again. Still, he would remain acquitted from sin, as God would not repeatedly reexamine his case and then sentence him to other kinds of punishment for his sin.
This might be compared to the situation of a man serving a prison term for some criminal act. Once he has served his time of imprisonment, he is not repeatedly retried and punished for the same crime.
Now in the case of one raised from the dead to earthly life, the sinful record for which he was condemned to death no longer stands against him. Like one released from imprisonment, he has the opportunity to conform to law. Nevertheless, the resurrected one is still the same human. His death produced no change in him as to personality and sinful inclinations. By resurrection he did not become a perfect human, free from all effects of sin and imperfection inherited from Adam. He was not declared righteous because of dying. As in the case of an ex-convict, he must put forth diligent effort not to succumb to his fleshly weaknesses. He must start in, as it were, where he left off in life and take full advantage of God’s provisions for everlasting life on earth.
Because of the life they lived before their death, some people will have a stronger leaning toward wrongdoing than others. The Bible does, in fact, say: “There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) So those who were unrighteous at their death will be unrighteous at their resurrection to earthly life.
So while acquitting one from a record of sin, death produces no change in what one is as a person. Those raised to life on earth are the same individuals that died, descendants of sinner Adam. They are imperfect humans, just as were those raised by Elijah, Elisha, Jesus Christ, Peter and Paul centuries ago. The death and resurrection of individuals in the past did not transform them into perfect persons able to live forever. So with those raised on earth in the New Order, it is only their availing themselves of the sin-atoning provisions of Jesus’ sacrifice that shields them from death.
In the Bible book of Revelation, God’s provision for life, including the sin-atoning arrangement, is portrayed symbolically as a river of water of life. (Rev. 22:1, 2) So it is by ‘drinking’ from this ‘river’ that the resurrected ones are gradually liberated from all sinful tendencies and become perfect humans.
Not until they are perfect humans does Jehovah God view them as having come to life in the fullest sense. It is evidently for this reason that the Bible says of those raised to life on earth that they ‘do not come to life until the end of the thousand years’ of Christ’s Kingdom rule, during which rule the benefits of his atoning sacrifice will be applied to humankind.—Rev. 20:5.
You must not be looking very hard. You can do a search on their official website and find statements about that very easily.
Do you believe that Jesus is who the Bible says He is, which means He is God (John 1, Col 1:15-17, Phil 2:5-8, etc.) and reigns over all things (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-22, Heb 2:8, etc.)?
What do you believe is required for salvation?
An universalist must be mouth watering, second chances and no eternal torment.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Well, to a JW NO BAD DEED that you do in this life matters at judgment. Soak that one in........... then
Aside from their little group that goes to heaven---- Hitler etc, and the rest of the JWs will be resurrected unchanged in their old mortal sinful fleshly bodies just as we are now. They will have 1000 years being taught laws to obey, so they can earn everlasting life on earth.
Sin once- poof-dead forever.
From beginning to end this religion is FALSE. I sincerely urge everyone to read your just bible and pray and not to be interested in what these false teachers have to say. I am only aware of their teachings because I had no choice being raised in these lies.
Once I prayed, and asked God for His truth with all of my heart- I was led to put my many JW books and magazines down- and read only the scriptures trusting God completely to lead me.
He led me completely away from Jw lies, and straight into the arms of Jesus.
That is my desire for all Jws here, but these people need to stop idolizing their false prophets first and sincerely want truth.
while Jane and other Jws call me a liar repeatedly- take notice that they have never corrected one thing I write when I ask them to show me where I lied. Please know that I have not lied and have no reason to lie.
I am an apostate or opposer to them.. and they smear all of us with accusations of slander. It is not new and is to be expected. It is how it is with them.
I am a new creation born again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ & I am telling you the truth about what they teach.
I have ten family members who are still JWs who have shunned me and my family for 20+ years because we love the Lord.
PS95
Well-Known Member
If I played chess, I would declare a CHECKMATE.
However, a JW will come out with this... " Satan is the FATHER OF LIES" and " the god of this age" - therefore Father and God is not good enough.
Yet, it was good enough for JESUS and the apostles. Who shall we trust?
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Ehyeh and Yahweh are the same root word but they're cased differently. The latter is in an imperfect tense, indicating ongoing action. It's something like "I am being" or "I continue being" or "I was and continue to be."
According to the Jewish Tanakh, God’s name means “I Will Be What I Will Be”…..it isn’t a statement of his existence as the Israelites already knew who their God was….it was a statement of his intentions in connection with them and their spectacular exit from Egypt…..they were going to see him “BE“ or “BECOME” whatever he needed to be to accomplish his purpose.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Disagree. As I see it, this IS a statement of existence, and a rather powerful one.
The Israelites had forgotten their God. Moses left for a few days and they immediately built an idol to the Egyptian goddess Hathor. This was an era where gods were fairly common and were typically made of stone, wood, or metal. Every city and tribe had their own - they were national emblems more than gods.
When Moses asked God to identify Himself, God effectively answered, "the one who really exists" and then forbid them from making any sort of icon. This was about differentiation. God was letting them know that the way they had been worshiping other gods was NOT going to cut it here.
The Jewish Tanakh disagrees with you. It was not a statement of his existence as the Jews did know their God. They were a completely separated people in Egypt who in time became slaves. Moses birth tells the story and how God rescued this child because he would be used mightily in Israel’s future….a future already mapped out for him.
Yes, that is true but the interesting thing about this golden calf that the people insisted on Aaron making for them, was what they called it….not “Hathor”…..but “Yahweh”.
They were holding a “festival to Yahweh” but mimicking the worship of an Egyptian idol.
So doesn’t this drive home the fact that if pagan adoptions are celebrated but they are called by another name, they are still offensive to God?
What does Christendom do with celebrations like Christmas and Easter? Both are pagan to their bootstraps, but because they bear a thin veneer of Christianity, it’s all OK and God doesn’t mind?
What did Paul say about that?
“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,and I will be their God,and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst,and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you,and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” (2 Cor 6:14-18 ESV)
Separation was required, not “touching the unclean” thing, if one desired to be a son and daughter of God.
If you think that Israel did not know their God by the end of the 10th plague then you are sadly mistaken…..they now knew him in a way they had never known him, previous to their becoming a populous nation.
Yahweh was “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob”….but now he was the God of the nation that God promised to Abraham, that would come from his seed.
They didn’t need to know that he existed, but what he would “BE” or “BECOME” to his people.
He would continue to show them….
Jesus is the name above all names, yes. God gave this title to Jesus so God is not calling his own name that, because he gave that authority to his son.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
While I agree that it is essential to need keeping the commandments, both Jews and Gentiles, and in both old and new testaments, never was obedience the way to eternal life. Yes, it was a criteria, but the way was always by faith in the blood of the Lamb. Righteousness, comes by faith. Obedience is the result of faith. Justification and sanctification come by faith.
“Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. ”
Habakkuk 2:4 KJV
PS95
Well-Known Member
Jane, Your thread here can go 9000000 pages and it will never change the simple fact that Jesus never taught us to use a name, and He never used a name when praying. He taught us to say, Father, and He also prayed using Father, and used Lord.
"I thank you Father, Lord of heaven and earth..:
This is not about letters. Far more important than letters lost. It is about our salvation that is only found in the name of Jesus. You can call on Jehovah, Yahahava, Yahweh, all day long, but there will be silence, unless you believe that Jesus is the only way to have your sins paid for- Not by your death-!
ONLY Jesus' blood washes sins away and in Him we have forgiveness and our sins acquitted. It is justification. Romans 6:7 is speaking about that very thing not physical death. You really need to believe that! You need forgiveness. We all do!
Your life is in His name- Life is in His blood.
Try reciting this over and over until you can believe it-
Acts 4: 11-12
He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE.
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”
There REALLY is no other name besides Jesus that we need. He is our Savior.
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. --1 John 4:14
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PS95
Well-Known Member
Are you still misunderstanding who the word of God is? - that the Word who became flesh is Jesus?
Of course Jesus on earth had a God. He was the son of a woman and the son of God on earth. Why wouldn't He pray to His Father?
Of course Jesus was the EXACT image of His Father.
Of course he was representing His Father. --Seen me seen the Father..
What was your point here? I think you sound very mixed up.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Not a single Israelite had ever heard the name YHVH before Moses told them. Before that they worshiped ELHM, and not just one. Archaeology makes it very clear that to the extent that Israel even existed before the Exodus, they were polytheistic.
A populous nation? If that's the standard, then there was no Israel prior to Moses.
A family of 70 people "went down to Egypt" and more than 2 million came out. That math doesn't even remotely work, given the timeframe. Moses brought a lot of people out of Egypt who weren't Abraham's genetic descendants. They became Israel in a day, in an adoption:
1Cor 10: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through
the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
So no, "Israel" did not know their God. Most of them weren't even Israel before the day they suddenly were.
Right from the garden of Eden, God has shown us the value of obedience. Adam’s disobedience is what led to sin and death for all his children.While I agree that it is essential to need keeping the commandments, both Jews and Gentiles, and in both old and new testaments, never was obedience the way to eternal life. Yes, it was a criteria, but the way was always by faith in the blood of the Lamb. Righteousness, comes by faith. Obedience is the result of faith. Justification and sanctification come by faith.
“Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. ”
Habakkuk 2:4 KJV
Throughout the history of the nation of Israel, likewise the value of obedience was demonstrated in how God responded to their disobedience.….often with severe punishment. (Deut 5:29)
Obedience is a demonstration of faith….and for Christians, that faith was rooted in Christ’s death.…the very foundation of it.
Though not referring to Habakkuk by name, Paul quoted Habakkuk 2:4 …(“But as for the righteous one, by his faithfulness he will keep living”) when encouraging Christians to display faith. ((Rom 1:16; Gal 3:11; Heb 10:38-39)
Archaeology does not always make accurate assumptions.
Yahweh himself said….
At Exodus 6:3….
”I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob with [the name] Almighty God, but [with] My name YHWH, I did not become known to them.” (Jewish Tanakh)
“God Almighty” was still one God…..Israel were not taught to be polytheistic….but through their less than faithful record, they made several excursions into false worship. Even at one point sacrificing their children to Molech.
On other occasions they adopted Baal worship and Elijah conducted his contest with the Baal prophets.
God made his name known and also its meaning to his people with whom he made a solemn covenant…..but his people never kept it.
I’d call several million people all gathered in one place a populous people….wouldn’t you?
They existed as a separate people from the Egyptians. It got to the point where Pharaoh commanded that all the male children to be put to death., because they were becoming so numerous. This is why Moses was rescued as an infant and raised by Pharaoh’s daughter.
There was a “vast mixed company” who came out of Egypt, and Israel were given many goods to take with them…..and many of the Egyptians saw God’s power and joined in with God’s people in leaving to go with them. God accepts children by adoption as he demonstrated when Gentiles were added to the Christian congregation….so yes, the were baptized through the Red Sea to become the children of God…part of God’s nation.
What did John B tell the Pharisees?
Matt 3:7-9…
”When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones.”
So strict lineage was not as important to God as faithful obedience, which his people never gave him for very long in any time period.
As to the time spent in Egypt, Paul told his fellow Israelites and others….
”Men, Israelites and you others who fear God, listen. 17 The God of this people Israel chose our forefathers, and he exalted the people while they lived as foreigners in the land of Egypt and brought them out of it with an uplifted arm. 18 And for a period of about 40 years, he put up with them in the wilderness. 19 After destroying seven nations in the land of Caʹnaan, he assigned their land as an inheritance. 20 All of that was during about 450 years.” (Acts 13:16-20)
Isn't 450 years long enough for that nation to become populous? Children were seen as a blessing from God, so they had large families.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Sad that you should come to such a focus. Shouldn't you ought to be remembering that rather than punishment, you would state, Throughout the history of the nation of Israel, likewise the value of obedience was demonstrated in how God responded to their disobedience.…. always with grace and mercy.
I think what is sad @Brakelite, is that Yahavah wants his name know but so many people just pass it by.
Deuteronomy 32:3 I will proclaim the name of Yahavah/Yahweh; how glorious is our God!
Isaiah 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Deuteronomy 32:3 I will proclaim the name of Yahavah/Yahweh; how glorious is our God!
Isaiah 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I think that what God wants more than just to be known by a name, is to be understood. In other words, is more important to Him, and vital to us, even salvational, that we fully understand and know not just Who God is, but what He is. What His name actually means, for it is His glory.
Moses asked God to show him His glory. Do you know what God showed Moses on response? He told Moses His name. But not a name that we call Him by, rather a name that we KNOW Him by.
Study the following carefully and prayerfully.
“12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight. 13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people. 14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest. 15 And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence. 16 For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth. 17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name. 18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. 19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. ”
Exodus 33:12-23 KJV
Unfeigned Bible
It is our privilege to reach higher and still higher for clearer revealings of the character of God. When Moses prayed, "I beseech Thee, show me Thy glory," the Lord did not rebuke him, but He granted his prayer. God declared to His servant, "I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee." Exodus 33:18, 19.
“1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. 2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount. 3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount. 4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone. 5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. ”
Exodus 34:1-7 KJV
God does not ask if we are worthy of His love, but He pours upon us the riches of His love, to make us worthy. He is not vindictive. He seeks not to punish, but to redeem. Even the severity which He manifests through His providences is manifested for the salvation of the wayward....It is true that God "will by no means clear the guilty" (Exodus 34:7), but He would take away the guilt.
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