God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise?

[MatthewG]

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭27‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Hello group,

Was wondering the insights of others on these specific segments of scripture.

What does it mean God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise? God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong?

 

[amadeus]

No matter how much knowledge or wisdom a man has in himself, he cannot walk the straight line to the Light of God alone. Neither a brain like Einstein, nor body with the strength of a Samson, will take us to that goal! What Jeremiah wrote here still applies to any man of flesh alone:

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

We need help and God, through the written verses of scriptures, has told us where or how to ask:

O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes" Psalm 119:5

Cause me to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning; for in thee do I trust: cause me to know the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto thee." Psalm 143:8

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps." Prov 16:9

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33

 

[MatthewG]

@amadeus,

Let me know what you think here.

Though in this world - a person by and through their body and soul have to interact in this world. There is negative and positive things that people can do with their body and soul. As human beings we can learn about education, or do sex, drugs, and rock and roll, right? However, the foolishness that is seen is the Cross of Christ which leads to a born-again experience in which now in the body and the soul of a person - that Cross which Jesus Christ was slain that what was lost from the day Adam died spiritually; makes us now alive spiritually through his resurrection. Which leads to relationship with the Father through Christ, which can been seen as foolishness to this world be it on the negative or the positive sides of the coin. When the door of Christ opens it always shines first to those who are in the darkest parts of their life first because of the sin which can be used by God, which they choose to do freely, leading them to that Cross, where they die to themselves, becoming set free from the bondage of sin and (spiritual death). Those who are wise of this world, who have money and wealthy and have everything they could possibly need, may not be able to see the light as much as those in the dark because they have everything already, why would they need Jesus?

It may be foolish to some to think that Jesus - did everything for a person in which they can have a new life by and through the spiritual means of life which is given to those who have faith and believe, by the Spirit.

They may believe they have to do it for themselves?

 

[Patrick1966]

No matter how much knowledge or wisdom a man has in himself, he cannot walk the straight line to the Light of God alone. Neither a brain like Einstein, nor body with the strength of a Samson, will take us to that goal! What Jeremiah wrote here still applies to any man of flesh alone:

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

We need help and God, through the written verses of scriptures, has told us where or how to ask:

O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes" Psalm 119:5

Cause me to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning; for in thee do I trust: cause me to know the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto thee." Psalm 143:8

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps." Prov 16:9

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33

Great post, thank you!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭27‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Hello group,

Was wondering the insights of others on these specific segments of scripture.

What does it mean God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise? God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong?

Always helps to look at different translations too. Here’s NASB.

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And the understanding of those who have understanding, I will confound.”

 

[Randy Kluth]

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭27‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Hello group,

Was wondering the insights of others on these specific segments of scripture.

What does it mean God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise? God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong?

God's power is not the equivalent of human power. While we may admire a strong man, God may endow a weak person with supernatural strength.

This being the case, it is not always so apparent, because God does not display Himself as a predictable device. You make a vow, and you become a Sampson. You claim, as a weak person, supernatural strength. These things are tools of manipulation that won't work unless God is in them. And we have no say in that. God chooses the time and place, and it is at odds with what people think makes them special.

All the glory is God's. He alone is kind, He alone is worthy. If people think they can obtain virtue apart from God, it will be shallow imitation. And so, those who are proud will find that they build a house of cards, with respect to God. God may enable them to build great wealth. But their testimony in the end will be: it is pure vanity.

God took one of the smallest nations of the world, Israel, and made them a great name--a name that has impacted the whole world and all history. Only God could do that. And He did it to show the great powers like India and China that they don't have power in numbers that impress God at all. What impresses God is a covenant relationship with Him, crediting Him with the source of all human virtue. God is only impressed when we return to Him what He gives to us.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Randy, you speak a little differently than I am accustomed to so I had to read you carefully, but I like your post.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Randy, you speak a little differently than I am accustomed to so I had to read you carefully, but I like your post.

Yes, I didn't take great care or time to fill the gaps with any explanations--just a quick response. God may use whatever natural endowments we may have, strength, intelligence, beauty, talent, etc. But how can the Creator be impressed by His own work? He designs things in such a way that He will show He is the source of human virtue, which are things like love and kindness.

Those in this world who take pride in themselves and in what they have will find they have missed the mark, whereas those who acknowledge God as the source of all virtue will find fulfillment in what God has given them.

The Bible is filled with stories that display this, from David slaying Goliath, to Sampson, to Abraham and Sarah. These people found that as they obeyed God and gave Him the glory they were able to display things that reveal what only a supernatural God can do. There is no way in the world little Israel could've moved the world and history. But because they freely entered into a covenant relationship with God and obeyed God's Law they were able to produce so many things that cannot be ignored.

The same will hold true for us if we give Him 1st place in all things. What ever He has given us will display His supernatural power to reveal Himself to be the source of all good things.

There is no plan of action or instruction course in how we may accomplish this apart from submitting to God and giving Him glory. We may try to duplicate the things that men and women of the Bible did, but will not be able to duplicate the supernatural power in their lives unless we listen to God for ourselves and do specifically what God asks us to do.

There is no pattern to follow apart from knowing God and obeying His word. What worked for someone else worked because they heard God for themselves. We cannot copy someone else--we must hear God for ourselves. Hopefully that is a little clearer?

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus,

Let me know what you think here.

Though in this world - a person by and through their body and soul have to interact in this world. There is negative and positive things that people can do with their body and soul. As human beings we can learn about education, or do sex, drugs, and rock and roll, right?

Absolutely! Many choices are ours in this world, but ultimately there are only two choices that matter... for ourselves or for God! Let us choose wisely the second no matter how good the other may appear to be.

However, the foolishness that is seen is the Cross of Christ which leads to a born-again experience in which now in the body and the soul of a person - that Cross which Jesus Christ was slain that what was lost from the day Adam died spiritually; makes us now alive spiritually through his resurrection. Which leads to relationship with the Father through Christ, which can been seen as foolishness to this world be it on the negative or the positive sides of the coin. When the door of Christ opens it always shines first to those who are in the darkest parts of their life first because of the sin which can be used by God, which they choose to do freely, leading them to that Cross, where they die to themselves, becoming set free from the bondage of sin and (spiritual death). Those who are wise of this world, who have money and wealthy and have everything they could possibly need, may not be able to see the light as much as those in the dark because they have everything already, why would they need Jesus?

This world with its money is certainly where the problem, that is, our problems lie. Surrender to God and His Way as you say to the Light!

It may be foolish to some to think that Jesus - did everything for a person in which they can have a new life by and through the spiritual means of life which is given to those who have faith and believe, by the Spirit.

They may believe they have to do it for themselves?

We need to come to an understanding of why God put us here and what He wants us to do with what He has provided for us. If we cannot understand, if we sincerely ask Him, will He not help us in that?

 

[Keraz]

It is unfortunately true that the more people who study the prophetic scripture and attempt to establish a coherent picture of the end times, then the more different ideas, theories and scenarios are promulgated. WHY IS THIS?

The Bible does tell us why and the prophet Daniel says that ‘only a few wise leaders’, that is: those few who diligently study the Word and avoid all false teachings and doctrines, will know what will happen.

Luke 18:32-34 The Son of Man will be handed over to the Gentiles. He will be mocked, maltreated and spat upon, then flogged and killed. Then on the third day, He will rise again. But the disciples could not understand or grasp what He was talking about, for its meaning was concealed from them.

Isaiah 29:9-14 Because this people worship Me with empty words and just pay Me lip service while their hearts are far from Me and their religion is but human precept, learnt by rote, therefore: I shall shock them, adding shock to shock. The wisdom of their learned people will vanish and the discernment of the intelligent will be lost.

If you confuse yourselves, you will stay confused. If you blind yourself, you will stay blinded. Be drunk, but not with strong drink, for the Lord has poured upon you a spirit of deep stupor, He has closed the eyes of the prophets and muffled the seers. The prophetic vision of it all has become for you like the words of a sealed book, a book impossible to understand.

Isaiah 56:10-11 For all Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are all dumb dogs that cannot bark just dreaming as they sleep in ignorance. Israel’s shepherds understand nothing, all going their own way in their greed and false teachings. Ref: REB paraphrased



‘its meaning concealed from them’, This shows how God can and does hide true understanding from those whom He wishes to. Deut. 29:4, Matthew 11:25

‘this people’, this refers to followers of Judaism and Christianity. Ezekiel 12:2

‘wisdom and discernment will be lost’, because of false doctrines, non Biblical teachings and outright idol worship, the Lord has drawn the veil of inability to understand His plans and purposes. Deuteronomy 32:28-29, Isaiah 6:9-10, Jeremiah 6:10

‘if you confuse yourself, you will stay confused’, people who have believed the comfortable idea of a rapture, or say ‘all is peaceful, all secure’, will be shocked by the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, the soon to happen judgement/ punishment of His enemies.

‘Israel’s watchmen understand nothing, in their greed and false teachings’, Those who preach incorrect doctrines and who write end times fiction, will face a more severe judgement on that great Day. James 3:1, Matthew 23:10, 2 Peter 2:1-3


Ecclesiasticus 15:1-10 He who fears the Lord will act thus: He will give his mind to study and will meditate on understanding and if he masters the Law, wisdom will be his. Wisdom will come out and greet him like a mother, like a bride to her husband and his food will be the bread of understanding, his drink: the water of wisdom. He will rely on her and not be put to shame. He will find prosperity and in the assembly, his words will be inspired. Fools will never possess wisdom, nor will sinners catch a glimpse of her. She holds aloof from arrogance and liars never see her. REB Apocrypha

 

[Dropship]

Many church leaders are not up to scratch despite having been through theological college, in other words a fool with a diploma is still just a fool..
For example here's a cutting from yesterday's Daily Mail-

 

[quietthinker]

God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise?​

Mans wisdom is to resort to violence for solutions and superiority. It applies to intellectual violence, emotional violence to say nothing of the barbarity of physical and environmental violence against any and all. We can see that throughout history.
Empires come into existence through violence. They know no other way.

God the all powerful takes a different line altogether, power resides in that of submission.....something totally alien to mankind.
He allowed Lucifer to carry on with his shenanigans at the outset. Jesus submitted himself to his oppressors to the point of giving his life even while he could have with a word subdued them. We have an indication of this in Gethsemane when his arresters fell to the ground at his words 'I am he'

Yes, what the world considers foolish, God sees otherwise. What the world considers wisdom, God sees otherwise.

 

[Rita]

With regards to the OP….
I tend to look at things in context of what is being conveyed.
1 Corinthians was written in response to Paul being notified of quarrels and disagreement with regards to ‘ who should be followed ‘ ( Apollos, Peter, Paul or Christ ‘ )

Interestingly this is the thing that was causing division, who people thought they should follow ( just made me consider the arguments on the forum over the different churches / leaders that over time people have followed……..but that’s perhaps for another thread !! )

In an attempt to deal with this issue he uses himself as an example. He would have been taught how to debate and convey things - in ancient times it was a skill to do so, but he mentions that he merely came with testimony , his testimony about Christ and the cross. He shared what was revealed to him.
If you consider that he had been a Pharisee, learned, and full of knowledge of scripture , a group of people who considered themselves the wisest amongst Gods people. Yet none of that is relevant , only what was revealed to him was relevant now.

Paul states in verse 1:26 ‘ Not many of you were wise by human standards ‘
He doesn’t state that ALL of them were ……so this cannot mean that ‘ only the uneducated, unlearned , weak ect etc were part of the church ‘
However, as I have mentioned , Paul as one of the influential and learned member of the Church didn’t lean on his human experience or knowledge - all of that could not redeem him , it was only what Christ had done on the cross. He could not save himself.
Many within the world believe the more they know and the more they know gives them power that will save them, yet , as Paul states, it is the power of the cross that saves and unless that is revealed to you you will not grasp or understand that power.
Rita

 

[Rita]

It is unfortunately true that the more people who study the prophetic scripture and attempt to establish a coherent picture of the end times, then the more different ideas, theories and scenarios are promulgated. WHY IS THIS?

The Bible does tell us why and the prophet Daniel says that ‘only a few wise leaders’, that is: those few who diligently study the Word and avoid all false teachings and doctrines, will know what will happen.

Not sure I agree with the above statements. Here is why …..

Paul states in Corinthians “ What we have received is not the Spirit of the world , but the Spirit who is from God , so that we may understand what God has freely given us “ ( Paul was talking to everyone at Corinth and those who were scattered, in other words all those who were in Christ )
later he states “ The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit “

I do not believe that diligence to study the word of God is the only key to understanding, Paul diligently read and studied the OT and he never recognised that prophesy was being fulfilled when Jesus came.
For me it is The Holy Spirit that gives understanding, and he can give that understanding to anyone who has come to faith.
You are amongst those who study end times, I kind of get the impression by your post that somehow you are placing yourself above others who also study end times but have a different picture to you …….
Not sure if that was intended, but that’s how it came across to me.
Rita

 

[Keraz]

You are amongst those who study end times, I kind of get the impression by your post that somehow you are placing yourself above others who also study end times but have a different picture to you …….
Not sure if that was intended, but that’s how it came across to me.

What I do is to promote what the Bible Prophets actually said. I place them above the many 'interpretations' touted today.
God has made the understanding of His Prophetic Word difficult and I see how many people have come to wrong conclusions about God's Plans for our future.

We are told there is coming; a day of trial and testing for everyone the whole world over. Luke 21:35, 1 Peter 4:12
We Christians should know about it and not be in the dark. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

 

[Rita]

What I do is to promote what the Bible Prophets actually said. I place them above the many 'interpretations' touted today.
God has made the understanding of His Prophetic Word difficult and I see how many people have come to wrong conclusions about God's Plans for our future.

We are told there is coming; a day of trial and testing for everyone the whole world over. Luke 21:35, 1 Peter 4:12
We Christians should know about it and not be in the dark. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

Thank you , you have answered my question !
Totally missed the point of the rest of my post ….but never mind. X

 

[MatthewG]

It seems that this world is a testing ground or a proving ground, when it comes down to a person whom chooses to seek out God in faith.

The intelligent world may mock and laugh at you; because of 'faith'.

The scripture says people are to walk by faith and not by sight. That is extremely hard to do.
To love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your might, and all your strength. Is nearly impossible to do, especially to our own fleshly ways.

 

[rockytopva]

What I do is to promote what the Bible Prophets actually said. I place them above the many 'interpretations' touted today.
God has made the understanding of His Prophetic Word difficult and I see how many people have come to wrong conclusions about God's Plans for our future.

We are told there is coming; a day of trial and testing for everyone the whole world over. Luke 21:35, 1 Peter 4:12
We Christians should know about it and not be in the dark. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

Some people call or think themselves prophets when it is actually arrogance. They think because they have put so much time into their eschatology that they cannot be wrong.

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. - Deuteronomy 18:22

Preumptuously - zûwd, zood; or (by permutation) זִיד zîyd; a primitive Hebrew root; to seethe; figuratively, to be insolent:—be proud, deal proudly, presume, (come) presumptuously, sod.

In other words... What part of arrogance do they not understand?

 

[RLT63]

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭27‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Hello group,

Was wondering the insights of others on these specific segments of scripture.

What does it mean God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise? God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong?

I notice it says the message of the cross. Not the message of a pole.

 

[David in NJ]

@amadeus,

Let me know what you think here.

Though in this world - a person by and through their body and soul have to interact in this world. There is negative and positive things that people can do with their body and soul. As human beings we can learn about education, or do sex, drugs, and rock and roll, right? However, the foolishness that is seen is the Cross of Christ which leads to a born-again experience in which now in the body and the soul of a person - that Cross which Jesus Christ was slain that what was lost from the day Adam died spiritually; makes us now alive spiritually through his resurrection. Which leads to relationship with the Father through Christ, which can been seen as foolishness to this world be it on the negative or the positive sides of the coin. When the door of Christ opens it always shines first to those who are in the darkest parts of their life first because of the sin which can be used by God, which they choose to do freely, leading them to that Cross, where they die to themselves, becoming set free from the bondage of sin and (spiritual death). Those who are wise of this world, who have money and wealthy and have everything they could possibly need, may not be able to see the light as much as those in the dark because they have everything already, why would they need Jesus?

It may be foolish to some to think that Jesus - did everything for a person in which they can have a new life by and through the spiritual means of life which is given to those who have faith and believe, by the Spirit.

They may believe they have to do it for themselves?

also
Religion is a major part of "the wisdom of this world".
Religion can be more of a road block to coming to Christ then perhaps any other force/temptation/logic, etc.

Religion was (and still is) that which turned against the Messiah to be condemned to death/crucified.