God hates us!

[elysian]

God the Father hates sin, so he hates us and wants to destroy us. He destroyed Sodom for its sin. He is so righteous that he can't tolerate sinners in his midst. He wants to destroy us, but because the Son took the punishment on our behalf, he has spared us.

Goes on to show that Father is righteous, so righteous that he frightens us with his wrath. But the Son is merciful, so merciful that he gave himself up for us. The Son's love for us is immeasurable.

 

[Lively Stone]

You need a bit of correction, there. No, God loves us, which is why He has instituted a plan to save us from eternal punishment for sin.

Satan is the one bent on destroying us, God's beloved creation.

 

[elysian]

You need a bit of correction, there. No, God loves us, which is why He has instituted a plan to save us from eternal punishment for sin.

Satan is the one bent on destroying us, God's beloved creation.

Father is too righteous to love sinners like us. It is Christ who loves us, his sacrifice is proof,

 

[Redeemed86]

God the Father hates sin, so he hates us and wants to destroy us. He destroyed Sodom for its sin. He is so righteous that he can't tolerate sinners in his midst. He wants to destroy us, but because the Son took the punishment on our behalf, he has spared us.

Goes on to show that Father is righteous, so righteous that he frightens us with his wrath. But the Son is merciful, so merciful that he gave himself up for us. The Son's love for us is immeasurable.

The God of the OT/law is the same God of grace. He is righteous, just and loving. In order to call God wrathful and hateful based on his action in the OT (which I'm assuming you are), you'd have to condone the barbaric and rampant evil that was commonplace at that time. Most critics point to God's "harsh" (righteous) judgement in the OT, while ignoring the evil that aroused it.

Ephesians 1:4-5 let's us know that God loved us even before the world existed.

Here is a link that goes more in-depth on this, if you care to read.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/02/16/harsh-god-old-testament

 

[Foreigner]

Elysian, you seem to start a lot of threads designed to be intentionally controversial or confrontational.

Please get a grip.

 

[Lively Stone]

Father is too righteous to love sinners like us. It is Christ who loves us, his sacrifice is proof,

It is obvious you do not read the bible.

Jesus would not have come to suffer and die for you had not the Father loved you already as a filthy sinner.


Romans 5:8 (NLT)

But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners.



Besides, if God didn't love us, then neither would Christ...they are both God.


.

 

[Templar81]

God the father is certainly very sterna nd tough but no! he doesn't hate us. He loves the sinner and hates the sin.

Remember this God the Father and God the Son along with God the Holy SPirit are all one God therefore they can't think differently and a God that hates us or is indifferent would never take on humanity in the form of Jesus and pay the debt for our sins thatis otherwise unpayable.

God however does crush people but only those who have heard his word and still spurn him.

 

[justaname]

Lets look at Jesus' words as far as this is concerned.
John 6:38-40
For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me. And this is the Father’s will which has sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one which sees the Son, and believes on Him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise that one up at the last day.

Jesus was sent by the Father. It is the plan of the Father for Jesus, conceived before the foundations of the world.

 

[prism]

For God so loved the world that He sent His Son.

not

For God so hated the world that He sent His Son.

 

[elysian]

For God so loved the world that He sent His Son.

not

For God so hated the world that He sent His Son.

I am just saying that Father is characterized more by righteousness than love, whereas in the Son's case it is the other way around.

 

[Lively Stone]

I am just saying that Father is characterized more by righteousness than love, whereas in the Son's case it is the other way around.

That is not the truth, either. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have strong suits in love and righteousness.

After all, GOD IS LOVE.

 

[aspen]

righteousness and love are synonymous

 

[elysian]

righteousness and love are synonymous

No, they are not.

Father and Son are distinct persons, which is why the OT differs so much from the NT. In OT, it's Father's reign - he is righteous and punishes sinners without showing any mercy. In NT, it's the Son's reign - he showers his mercy even on the chief of sinners. Father and Son are therefore distinct persons characterizing specific traits.

 

[aspen]

So God the Father is merciless and the Son is merciful? God the Father is no longer sovereign, neither is the Holy Spirit?

 

[Lively Stone]

No, they are not.

Father and Son are distinct persons, which is why the OT differs so much from the NT. In OT, it's Father's reign - he is righteous and punishes sinners without showing any mercy. In NT, it's the Son's reign - he showers his mercy even on the chief of sinners. Father and Son are therefore distinct persons characterizing specific traits.

God is a constant, never changing...


James 1:17 (NLT)

Whatever is good and perfect comes down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow.



Hebrews 13:8 (NLT)

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

God of the Old Covenant is no different than God of the New Covenant! What one is detecting is the fact that God has chosen to withhold final judgment in favour of His mercy, because of the cross, and for the sake of His Son, who is building His Church. He has already poured out all of His wrath on sin on His Son on the cross.

It is all part of His wonderful plan.

 

[elysian]

So God the Father is merciless and the Son is merciful? God the Father is no longer sovereign, neither is the Holy Spirit?

Father is righteous, so he punishes us. This appears merciless in our eyes although it is just.

God is a constant, never changing...


James 1:17 (NLT)

Whatever is good and perfect comes down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow.



Hebrews 13:8 (NLT)

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

God of the Old Covenant is no different than God of the New Covenant! What one is detecting is the fact that God has chosen to withhold final judgment in favour of His mercy, because of the cross, and for the sake of His Son, who is building His Church. He has already poured out all of His wrath on sin on His Son on the cross.

It is all part of His wonderful plan.

I don't recall saying he changes. But father and son are distinct persons, else the trinity concept will make little sense.

 

[Lively Stone]

God doesn't punish us! He chastises us, but please provide scripture that tells us that God punishes His children. As far as the scriptures go, we are told that God punishes sinners, and that doesn't happen until Judgment Day.

elysian:

If you think that God is one way in the OT and another way in the NT, you are alluding to Him changing. He is the same God, and doesn't change, but He has chosen to reveal His vast mercy since the cross, and is withholding His judgment that He unleashed before Christ came and is reserving it until the Great White Throne judgment.

 

[elysian]

God doesn't punish us! He chastises us, but please provide scripture that tells us that God punishes His children. As far as the scriptures go, we are told that God punishes sinners, and that doesn't happen until Judgment Day.

elysian:

If you think that God is one way in the OT and another way in the NT, you are alluding to Him changing. He is the same God, and doesn't change, but He has chosen to reveal His vast mercy since the cross, and is withholding His judgment that He unleashed before Christ came and is reserving it until the Great White Throne judgment.

Father in OT, son in NT. Since they are both God, it means God has not changed.

God doesn't punish us! He chastises us, but please provide scripture that tells us that God punishes His children. As far as the scriptures go, we are told that God punishes sinners, and that doesn't happen until Judgment Day.

elysian:

If you think that God is one way in the OT and another way in the NT, you are alluding to Him changing. He is the same God, and doesn't change, but He has chosen to reveal His vast mercy since the cross, and is withholding His judgment that He unleashed before Christ came and is reserving it until the Great White Throne judgment.

God is revealed as father in OT, and as son in the NT. This doesn't mean God changes, it means the persons of the trinity are being revealed. And since the persons are distinct, their actions toward us are also distinct. This again does not mean that God changes. As to punishment, well, Sodom?

 

[aspen]

Boy.....taking the human perspective of God out of the OT sure has warped people's understanding of God's Good nature.....

 

[elysian]

Boy.....taking the human perspective of God out of the OT sure has warped people's understanding of God's Good nature.....

I am not denying God's good nature. But his good nature or righteousness is revealed to us as wrath. Father is synonymous with wrath.