God's Word does ""not"" teach that baptism is essential for salvation.

[Truther]

Babies DON'T make Covenants?

Jews entered the Covenant with God by CIRCUMCISION in the OT.
WHO made the Covenant with God when 8-day-old babies were circumcised in the OT?

What part did the babies agree to?

A covenant is an agreement between individuals....

noun. an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified. Law. an incidental clause in such an agreement. ... a solemn agreement between the members of a church to act together in harmony with the precepts of the gospel.

 

[Truther]

You're dodging the issue.

I asked you to prove that a severely retarded/mentally-challenged person has full use of their faculties.
If you don't have full use of your faculties - then you CAN'T surrender your will.

SO - does a severely retarded/mentally-challenged person have to repent in order to be Baptized?

Yes, I never force a non repented person to be baptized.

I leave that nonsense to the RCC.

 

[BreadOfLife]

To supplement your 2 irrefutable posts:
There was never a debate or controversy about Baptism. There was unanimous agreement with all the Early Church Fathers, teachers and theologians. The trouble started when Calvin disagreed with Luther about baptismal regeneration and the divisions haven't stopped since. How does that prove the historic Church had it wrong in the first place?

BINGO.
And that is the $64,000 Question . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

What part did the babies agree to?

A covenant is an agreement between individuals....

noun. an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified. Law. an incidental clause in such an agreement. ... a solemn agreement between the members of a church to act together in harmony with the precepts of the gospel.

I asked YOU.
How is it that a baby in the OT can enter a Covenant, which is a binding agreement between two or more parties - but NOT in the NT??

You keep dodging that question . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, I never force a non repented person to be baptized.
I leave that nonsense to the RCC.

That's NOT what I asked you - but your evasion is noted.

I asked you:
SO - does a severely retarded/mentally-challenged person have to repent in order to be Baptized?

 

[Triumph1300]

SO - does a severely retarded/mentally-challenged person have to repent in order to be Baptized?

The answer is a big fat NO.

Since God is a JUST GOD, severely, mentally challenged people will be saved.

And so are unbaptized babies when they die.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The answer is a big fat NO.

Since God is a JUST GOD, severely, mentally challenged people will be saved.

And so are unbaptized babies when they die.

Great.
Can you show me where the Bible teaches this?

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

[GISMYS_7]

Read the Bible and learn and ignore the evil ideas of little men.===2 Samuel 12:23 23 King David says===But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

 

[Marymog]

Bottomline= Baptism without believing saves no one.

Yup.... you agree with 2,000 year teaching of The Church. He who believes and is baptized will be saved.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, I never force a non repented person to be baptized.

I leave that nonsense to the RCC.

Hi Truther,

The Church does not “force” anyone to be baptized. The Church brings infants into the covenant with God via baptism. It’s not done by force. It is done by the free will of the parents who are responsible for the salvation of their children. The promise is for you AND your children.

God Bless...Mary

 

[Marymog]

God's Word does ""not"" teach that baptism is essential for salvation.
The proof is found in God's word--the word that has no contradictions. Clearly, salvation is by faith. For example, Rom. 5:1 states that we are justified (declared righteous) by faith. It does not say faith and baptism. If baptism were part of salvation, then it would say we were justified by faith and baptism. But it does ""not"". If justification is by faith, then it is by faith. Baptism is ""not"" faith. It is a ceremony. It is something we do as a ritual. Proof baptism does not save is the many unbelievers that get baptized to please family and friends but remain and die unbelievers and will be in hell! Furthermore, please consider the following verses which declare how we are saved.

1. Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
2. Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
3. Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."
4. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."
5. Baptism and John 3:5 | CARM.org
6. Rom. 5:1, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
7. Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham."
8. Gal. 3:24 , "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
9. Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Sooooo your church teaches that we should ignore 1 Peter 3:21?

 

[Truther]

I asked YOU.
How is it that a baby in the OT can enter a Covenant, which is a binding agreement between two or more parties - but NOT in the NT??

You keep dodging that question . . .

A baby enters a covenant?

Does it sign a document or make a verbal contract?

The RCC teaches that too?

 

[Truther]

That's NOT what I asked you - but your evasion is noted.

I asked you:
SO - does a severely retarded/mentally-challenged person have to repent in order to be Baptized?

If they can, yes.

Repentance is basically, simply, surrendering one's will.

If someone cannot manage that simple task, they are innocent like a baby.

 

[Marymog]

If you are not a saved believer BEFORE you are baptized you waste your time.
Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13
GOD SAYS=
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved.............OOPS!!! Forgot baptism????

Soooooo The book of Acts is consistent when it teaches that preaching, repentance of the hearers, belief in Christ, and immediate baptism. Why would this be the case if the apostles did not believe that baptism was both effective and necessary for salvation?

Why does your church accept ONLY the book of Romans on this matter but throw out Acts and 1 Peter 3:21?

Curious Mary

 

[Truther]

Hi Truther,

The Church does not “force” anyone to be baptized. The Church brings infants into the covenant with God via baptism. It’s not done by force. It is done by the free will of the parents who are responsible for the salvation of their children. The promise is for you AND your children.

God Bless...Mary

When you baptize babies, do they have your prior consent?

Do they cry with joy or because they are ticked off that you got them wet?

 

[BreadOfLife]

A baby enters a covenant?
Does it sign a document or make a verbal contract?
The RCC teaches that too?

Did the babies in the OT enter the Covenant through circumcision - or not?

I'll be right here waiting for your answer . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

If they can, yes.

Repentance is basically, simply, surrendering one's will.

If someone cannot manage that simple task, they are innocent like a baby.

Great.
Can you show me where the BIBLE states this

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

[Marymog]

A baby enters a covenant?

Does it sign a document or make a verbal contract?

The RCC teaches that too?

Hi Truther,

Did the babies born prior to Christ enter into a covenant by signing a document or verbal contract?

Answer: No, the parents entered them into that covenant by having them circumcised. Why did they do that Truther? (Time for you to study Scripture)

Colossians 2:11-12 makes it clear what the new covenant is: Baptism.

Soooo The Church teaches what Scripture teaches. Baptism is the new circumcision.

Scripture teaches that all in the household were baptized. Babies include “all”. What does your church teach?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Did the babies in the OT enter the Covenant through circumcision - or not?

I'll be right here waiting for your answer . . .

LOL....I just asked the same thing before I saw your response.....the answer should be interesting....

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL....I just asked the same thing before I saw your response.....the answer should be interesting....

Well - I'm not holding my breath . . .