Grace vs Legalism

[CharismaticLady]

Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed (that is, rendered powerless, made of no effect), that henceforth we should not serve sin."

What is this "body of sin"?

Romans 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

Romans 8:10 "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

Romans 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

What are the 'deed of the body' that need to be put to death? How can the body have it's own deeds, and why do we need to kill them?

WE are not our bodies, which are corrupt flesh. We are children of God, given eternal life, righteous and holy, but we are living in mortal bodies. The body is dead because of sin, a body of death. We are to to therefore kill it's deeds. But then, the body of sin is made powerless by crucifixion with Christ, given us freedom from sin, the sin of the flesh, in the body of sin. You see this is the Scriptural terminology and teaching.

Much love!

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

If you believe the flesh is our body, what then does not in our body mean to you?

 

[amadeus]

Right, and me with a head-ache. I've got a brain tumor that I didn't think was growing. Maybe it is about time to have another MRI.

That is not good. I will keep you in prayer!

 

[Waiting on him]

Right, and me with a head-ache. I've got a brain tumor that I didn't think was growing. Maybe it is about time to have another MRI.

Will be praying for you.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well, if there my brethren, then Christ has already saved them. As far as the OSAS goes my answer would be not all who say they are saved are saved possibly, but I do not believe salvation is something I maintain. I believe it to be Christ only it originates with and concludes with Him.

What I found in my profound experience that night is that I had always thought I was saved, just like many others in the Church. I did something new that night; I did a prerequisite that I had never done before. It is that prerequisite that I teach. Also that one of the key symptoms to not being saved is no power against willfully sinning. And another sign of assurance of salvation is answered prayer. 1 John 3:21-24.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are not yours, did not Jesus die for all the sins of mankind once and forever, even you took time to get it, so does that make everyone else worse than you. It may be nice that you are "perfected" but Jesus still has a lot of work to do to perfect others, doesnt need "guilt" thrown into it which comes from satan not Jesus.

As for religion 100% agree, done more damage than anything.

I'm not throwing guilt, nor will I put up with false assurance that will find many judged. I leave the false assurance to the false teachers. But I will share the truth so that many more will be in heaven than would be if I didn't teach them.

 

[Waiting on him]

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

If you believe the flesh is our body, what then does not in our body mean to you?

All sin originates in the mind/flesh this is our carnality. To be in Christ is Christ lives through you.

 

[Waiting on him]

If we have the mind of Christ then the body follow suit. If the flesh mind the the motions emulated are carnality.

 

[CharismaticLady]

All sin originates in the mind/flesh this is our carnality. To be in Christ is Christ lives through you.

I agree. But there are many "Christians" that believe the flesh is the body, and we will not be free from sin until our body is dead and changed into the immortal body. What would you say to them?

 

[Enoch111]

I agree. But there are many "Christians" that believe the flesh is the body, and we will not be free from sin until our body is dead and changed into the immortal body. What would you say to them?

How do you know this? Bible-believing Christians generally understand that the term "flesh" can apply to three things, depending on context: (1) meat, (2) the human body, and (3) the indwelling sin nature, also called the old Adamic nature, or the "old man".

However it is also true that until the bodies of the saints are perfect and glorified, the sin nature will not be eradicated.

 

[Waiting on him]

I agree. But there are many "Christians" that believe the flesh is the body, and we will not be free from sin until our body is dead and changed into the immortal body. What would you say to them?[/QUOTE

scripture states to not be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. I feel as if you are saying this happens instantly, that’s not my experience.

 

[CharismaticLady]

How do you know this? Bible-believing Christians generally understand that the term "flesh" can apply to three things, depending on context: (1) meat, (2) the human body, and (3) the indwelling sin nature, also called the old Adamic nature, or the "old man".

However it is also true that until the bodies of the saints are perfect and glorified, the sin nature will not be eradicated.

The "old man" is the sin nature. Paul is referring to it in Romans 8:9 when he refers to the flesh. "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."

Enoch, it is important to Paul that you remain "in the Spirit" and walk in the Spirit at all times. Therefore, a true Spirit-filled Christian always has power not to yield to the carnal flesh. Reckon the carnal flesh to be dead. The new nature that is born (born again) is called partaking of the divine nature. We are given the mind of Christ. Would Christ's mind desire sin? No.

 

[CharismaticLady]

scripture states to not be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. I feel as if you are saying this happens instantly, that’s not my experience.

For me it was instant. It is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Believe me, it was astounding. I wasn't even expecting it.

That is not to say we are perfect. Perfection comes from the life-long process of doing 2 Peter 1:5-7. It is also from growing in the knowledge of the Word of God. Philippians 3:16 and always living according to the level of that knowledge.

 

[Waiting on him]

For me it was instant. It is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Believe me, it was astounding.

That is not to say we are perfect. Perfection comes from the life-long process of doing 2 Peter 1:5-7. It is also from growing in the knowledge of the Word of God. Philippians 3:16 and always living according to the level of that knowledge.

2 Peter 1:4-9 KJV
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
So, you received all of this instantly, and why does he say add to?

 

[Waiting on him]

So how did you receive patience without a lot of tribulation?

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not throwing guilt, nor will I put up with false assurance that will find many judged. I leave the false assurance to the false teachers. But I will share the truth so that many more will be in heaven than would be if I didn't teach them.

False assurance, so we cant trust Jesus, is that what you are saying, that it is not about what He has done but about what we do, that we cannot have faith in Him once we put our assurance in Him, that He will finish what He started, So to believe Jesus, "It is finished" is wrong. That grace is not enough...

Jesus full of grace and truth, I guess His suffering is insufficient for many. As for false teachers, yes there are many that do claim to be teachers because they got a certificate or read the bible. Means nothing to God. As for guilt go tell some pour soul that just came to Christ they are not allowed to make any mistakes any more, Guilt, and condemnation you will fill them with it, and that is not from God.

 

[justbyfaith]

False assurance, so we cant trust Jesus, is that what you are saying, that it is not about what He has done but about what we do, that we cannot have faith in Him once we put our assurance in Him, that He will finish what He started, So to believe Jesus, "It is finished" is wrong. That grace is not enough...

Grace will produce holiness in the believer's life.

The blood of Jesus justifies us (Romans 5:9) or covers over our sins (Romans 4:7).

However, it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7) or takes away our sins (1 John 3:5).

Can the blood of Jesus, when it is applied, do one thing without also doing the other?

One thing may be immediate while the second thing may take a period of time.

But if the blood is truly applied, it will do both things.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

Of course not. Indwelling sin does not have to be obeyed; because it can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any dominion over us (Romans 6:14) in our behaviour.

Amen!

 

[CharismaticLady]

2 Peter 1:4-9 KJV
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
So, you received all of this instantly, and why does he say add to?

Read my post again. I said that part is a life-long process. What came instantly was freedom from sin. As well as many of the gifts of the Spirit. Since then, I've always been able to hear His voice. And because of that, I know His will and all my prayers are answered.

 

[CharismaticLady]

False assurance, so we cant trust Jesus, is that what you are saying, that it is not about what He has done but about what we do, that we cannot have faith in Him once we put our assurance in Him, that He will finish what He started, So to believe Jesus, "It is finished" is wrong. That grace is not enough...

Jesus full of grace and truth, I guess His suffering is insufficient for many. As for false teachers, yes there are many that do claim to be teachers because they got a certificate or read the bible. Means nothing to God. As for guilt go tell some pour soul that just came to Christ they are not allowed to make any mistakes any more, Guilt, and condemnation you will fill them with it, and that is not from God.

I trust Jesus with all my heart. His grace is the power of God given to us that frees us from all willful known sin. False teachers believe that grace is the blood of Jesus covering our sins AS we keep on sinning and not imputing any sin to us. That is freedom TO sin, not freedom FROM sin. Is that really what Jesus gave His life for? To allow us to sin, instead of making us truly holy?

 

[BarneyFife]

I believe that it is a first rule of hermeneutics that the context of any singular verse will never nullify the plain meaning of that verse.

I'm sure that's a fine Theological hobby horse that many a seminary professor has gotten a lot of mileage from, but with that rule as a first you're going to have a rough time debunking any false teaching.

I trust Jesus with all my heart. His grace is the power of God given to us that frees us from all willful known sin. False teachers believe that grace is the blood of Jesus covering our sins AS we keep on sinning and not imputing any sin to us. That is freedom TO sin, not freedom FROM sin. Is that really what Jesus gave His life for? To allow us to sin, instead of making us truly holy?

I knew an evangelist who used to end all his prayers with:
"Lord, we ask that You'd save us not in our sins, but from our sins. For we ask it and we thank you for it in Jesus's name, Amen."