Grace vs Legalism

[marks]

Are you making a general statement,

Yes, that was a general statement.

 

[marks]

Oh my, are you agreeing with what he just said? What about the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST. Just because we are not under the Law of Moses doesn't make us lawless. We establish the law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Yes, that's it, the law of life in Christ. That's our law. And there is not other law that governs us.

Only what Jesus want's me to do, and that's entirely between He and I.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Does your definition of grace change a person's nature? Or does it just let them freely sin to their evil heart's content, but God can't see the sin because the blood of Jesus covers them.

This again??? How completely unproductive I think.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

2 Corinthians 6:16 KJV
[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[marks]

No, this is my interpretation of what you believe. Walking in the Spirit isn't primarily about avoiding sin as you seem to suggest. Walking in the Spirit is more than avoiding the negative, i.e. avoiding sin; walking in the Spirit is also actively promoting the positive. Remember, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, which are not things to avoid, but things to do. It's one thing to avoid hating your brother. It's another thing to actively love your brother. Right? It's one thing to avoid hostility with your brother but it's another thing to make peace with your brother. You see? Walking in the spirit is not simply a way to avoid sin. Walking in the spirit is a way to be proactive in the good.

Hi CadyandZoe,

I'm thinking that walking in the Spirit isn't really about not sinning at all. I think it's about working righteousness, and living in love for God and other people, and that when we do that, we don't sin, because those things aren't sin.

Focusing on sin in our lives is what gets us more involved with it, more back into that life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Paul says to BE ANGRY, but sin not. Therefore getting angry is not a sin, anymore than Jesus sinned when He got angry and turned over the table of the money changers.

If you knew my past, you would know that I came from a very unsheltered world. But I have escaped.

Myself, I wouldn't go so far as to say that since Jesus became angry that it's OK if we become angry.

Be angry and sin not . . . is that God saying, go ahead, get angry! I've heard other interpret this verse as, in your anger do not sin.

God also tells us that the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. So how angry should we be?

I like to point to this passage as a good example of when someone interprets from a single place, without considering other passages that reflect on the meaning.

In your anger, do not sin, your anger does not work God's righteousness.

So how angry do you think is OK?

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, anger?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

This again??? How completely unproductive I think.

Much love!

I wasn't asking you so chill.

 

[marks]

I wasn't asking you so chill.

So if this nonesense isn't directed to me it's OK.

This is a public forum, perhaps if you prefer your comments to not be commented upon, you might want to use the private conversation option.

But I do have a tendency to point out bad arguments and logical fallacies. I think if we can learn to avoid those, we can have more productive discussions. In this case, we'll, I see this one tossed around a lot.

Either you believe like me, or you're a delighted willy-nilly sinner. Sure.

Much love?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Myself, I wouldn't go so far as to say that since Jesus became angry that it's OK if we become angry.

Be angry and sin not . . . is that God saying, go ahead, get angry! I've heard other interpret this verse as, in your anger do not sin.

God also tells us that the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. So how angry should we be?

I like to point to this passage as a good example of when someone interprets from a single place, without considering other passages that reflect on the meaning.

In your anger, do not sin, your anger does not work God's righteousness.

So how angry do you think is OK?

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, anger?

Much love!

It is what is behind the anger. There is righteous indignation which is what Jesus had, and it wasn't a sin. Although I don't know how much God likes Christians blowing up Abortion Clinics with people inside. But fighting against the laws that allow them is different and righteous.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So if this nonesense isn't directed to me it's OK.

This is a public forum, perhaps if you prefer your comments to not be commented upon, you might want to use the private conversation option.

But I do have a tendency to point out bad arguments and logical fallacies. I think if we can learn to avoid those, we can have more productive discussions. In this case, we'll, I see this one tossed around a lot.

Either you believe like me, or you're a delighted willy-nilly sinner. Sure.

Much love?

Much hate?

 

[marks]

Oh my, are you agreeing with what he just said? What about the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST. Just because we are not under the Law of Moses doesn't make us lawless. We establish the law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

The point here is, we are dead to the Law, through Christ, therefore, the law does not govern us, therefore, we do not transgress the law.

It's like saying, I'm not paying Japaneses taxes, but there's no violation of that law, since I'm not a Japanese citizen, and I'm not in Japan.

As a US citizen, I'm not under Japanese law, so there is no transgression.

What is it that establishes the law through faith?

The law is established through faith, because faith is required for righteousness. The law condemns all. So in saying faith is required for righteousness, we establish the law in that it is real, and valid, and that all are in fact condemned under it.

This isn't teaching that since we believe in Jesus, we now come under Israel's covenant with God made at Mt. Horeb.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Much hate?

I'm asking, does painting someone that way demonstrate love? Or can we do better?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is what is behind the anger. There is righteous indignation which is what Jesus had, and it wasn't a sin. Although I don't know how much God likes Christians blowing up Abortion Clinics with people inside. But fighting against the laws that allow them is different and righteous.

Challenging laws does not require anger. Personally, I think we can be far more effective without that anger.

Again, the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Why do we think anger is required for countering evil in the world?

That's a good question to ask. What is behind our anger? What could be behind our anger?

Is the Holy Spirit enflaming my anger against ___________ ? Or does my anger find it's source in the old man.

If my anger doesn't work the good that God wants, then why be angry?

If my anger doesn't work the good that God wants, then why should I think I should become angry?

Jesus, in His anger didn't sin. And Jesus' anger DID work the righteousness of God. His did, ours doesn't.

The choice is ours.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm asking, does painting someone that way demonstrate love? Or can we do better?

Much love!

One is so ludicrous that I want him to think about it. Does that error sound like God?

You think he is fine to think that way, and it is my ministry to enlighten people to obtain the baptism of the Holy Spirit to be filled with God's Spirit so they can be saved, and not live in the false assurance of dead doctrines. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, and I should just leave him alone, but I am very afraid for the state of the Church. This doctrine is leading to the "falling away" and you couldn't care less, just so Christianity is a feel good religion.

Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Challenging laws does not require anger. Personally, I think we can be far more effective without that anger.

It is better to have the mind of Christ and understand why his anger against the money-changers was not sin. You believe Jesus was different from us, so doesn't apply to us. But He was our example. And He is giving those who truly repent and want to be like Him His Spirit so that we can be.

 

[marks]

You believe Jesus was different from us, so doesn't apply to us.

Again . . . Huh?

That's a rather nebulous statement you attribute to me. Care to be more clear about what "I" meant?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is better to have the mind of Christ and understand why his anger against the money-changers was not sin.

Again, well, let me say it this way.

Jesus will have people thrown into the lake of fire. Is it therefore OK for you to do the same?

Understanding how Jesus was angry, and it wasn't sin, is not the same thing as saying it's all OK for us to become angry.

Why would God want us to be angry, if it doesn't do what He want's done? Isn't our anger then a waste of time and energy?

What can you do in anger that you cannot do better without it?

And why should we argue for our right to be angry?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Again . . . Huh?

That's a rather nebulous statement you attribute to me. Care to be more clear about what "I" meant?

Much love!

Myself, I wouldn't go so far as to say that since Jesus became angry that it's OK if we become angry.

 

[marks]

and you couldn't care less, just so Christianity is a feel good religion.

Is this from the Holy Spirit? And if not, then what?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Is this from the Holy Spirit? And if not, then what?

Open rebuke is better
Than love carefully concealed.