Grailhunter’s Corner

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Bible Highlighter

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Truth trumps false beliefs......people can look all of this up on their own.

I can say the same thing. But we both cannot be right. The real proof in the pudding is a person looking at the Bible and believing it is true (Which is supported by tons of evidences) and also looking at normal Bible history and not some fake manufactured history. As basic history tells us, Rome has always hated the Textus Receptus and the King James Bible. Rome has always sought to keep the Bible out of people's hands. You see the Bible Alone being perfect type position as idolatry. This is just pure insanity and means one has not been born again by water (i.e. the seed of the Word of God).

Can you find a discussion in the scriptures about smoking....tobacco? I chew tobacco.

The Bible does not have to hit you over the head directly with certain things in order for it to condemn something.
1 Corinthians 3:17 says if any man defiles his temple God will destroy them.
To say you are not defiling your temple by partaking of tobacco chew is simply a delusion on your part.


LOL You have to have sex to be married....so there is no sex before marriage. It occurs at the same time. Even today, if you have a wedding ceremony but do not have sex, you can have the marriage annulled. Sex is what consummates the marriage, it has been that way from the very beginning.
Sex before marriage does not mean one is married. As I have shown with Deuteronomy 22:20-21.

I do not have issues with nudity.....I do not feel I am sinning when I take a shower or when a man makes love with his wife, or even if a woman breast feeds a baby. It is all a matter of respect for yourself and others.

Nobody is talking about nudity in the privacy of their own home or amongst one's spouse, etcetera. Nudity is wrong when one gets nude in public and makes others to lust after their body.

Porn is not respectful or love, it is more or less prostitution.

I am actually surprised you see that porn is bad because you don't see a problem with masterbation or sex before marriage.
Sleeping with women before marriage is really no different than porn. It's just one living out the reality without a camera.
There are Christians I have talked with who do not think porn is a sin and they are in grave error.

The scriptures have no restrictions on masturbation.

So how can one do this without fantasizing about sex?
Would not people have a form of their own imaginary porn in their own mind involved in order to accomplish this?
 

Grailhunter

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I can say the same thing. But we both cannot be right.

You are right. It does not matter whether you or right or I am right....what does the scriptures say. Go find the sins that actually in the Bible.

The Bible does not have to hit you over the head directly with certain things in order for it to condemn something.
1 Corinthians 3:17 says if any man defiles his temple God will destroy them.
To say you are not defiling your temple by partaking of tobacco chew is simply a delusion on your part.

You see this is what people say when they want to make up things. It does not have to be in the scriptures you just have to imagine it.
First you have to find where tobacco is corrupting......LOL....smoking? They burnt animals in the temple.

Sex before marriage does not mean one is married. As I have shown with Deuteronomy 22:20-21.

You have not shown anything. Find a requirement for a wedding ceremony in the scriptures. You have prominent figures in the Old Testament...where is King David's or King Solomon's wedding ceremonies?
Nobody is talking about nudity in the privacy of their own home or amongst one's spouse, etcetera. Nudity is wrong when one gets nude in public and makes others to lust after their body.

Correct


I am actually surprised you see that porn is bad because you don't see a problem with masterbation or sex before marriage.
Sleeping with women before marriage is really no different than porn. It's just one living out the reality without a camera.
There are Christians I have talked with who do not think porn is a sin and they are in grave error.
The truth can be shocking.

So how can one do this without fantasizing about sex?
Would not people have a form of their own imaginary porn in their own mind involved in order to accomplish this?

Sexual desire comes with it own sexual imagery. But again it illustrates how negative you are about sexuality. SEX IS SO DIRTY, NASTY, AND SINFUL A CHRISTIAN SHOULD NOT EVEN IMAGINE IT! All so funny!
 

Bible Highlighter

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I am not liberal,
Yes, according to everyone else, you are.


You may not fit the mold perfectly on all points, but you do hold to the things listed in the article.

that is why I do not put with these lies. Fake words of God. And I do agree with the scriptures, just not men that lie about the Word of God.
No. You don't agree with the Scriptures.
You said God did not write any Bible (See here).
And then see my reply to your statement on that here.

Why does it seem so strange to you that a religion should have true beliefs....not something that men have made up?

If we are not suppose to sin, why does it seem so strange to you that it would be good to know what biblical sins are?

Why have a religion full of false beliefs and lies?

I believe your understanding on the Bible is carnal. You have to first believe the Bible in order to be transformed by it in order to truly see what it says.

These man-made sins turn people away from Christianity and give others false ammunition to accuse others with.

Only in your own mind.

Christ said my yoke is easy and my burden is light and the truth will set you free.

It's still a yoke. It's still a burden. We have to pick up our cross, deny ourselves, and follow Him.
As for being set free by the truth: This is if you continue in His Word (John 8:31-32). This means AFTER you are born again by the Spirit and water (the Scriptures in that it is a divine book), you have to put the Word of God on the inside of you continually. You have to keep renewing your mind with the truth and be transformed by it (Romans 12:1-2). David hid God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (Psalms 119:11).

Fake sins are made to be like what the Jews did and put the burden on believers.

Again, you need to be born of water in order to properly understand spiritual things in the Bible. Right now you are looking at things from an unbeliever's perspective and believing only parts of the Bible you want to believe in while also holding on to worldly wisdom like Evolution, etcetera.

Better to stick with the scriptures.

Good advice for yourself.

Johnny Appleseed of truth.....
Look to Jesus for the truth and not Johny Appleseed.

be good and do good.
Make the tree good and it's fruit good is what Jesus said.
This is only by the power of the working of God within a person.
 

Bible Highlighter

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You are right. It does not matter whether you or right or I am right....what does the scriptures say

But you don't really believe in any perfect inerrant infallible Word of God for today. So your statement here does not help you. You end up making the Bible fit your own views and you don't believe any Bible on the planet is perfect and so you fill in the gaps.

Go find the sins that actually in the Bible.

Like in real life, there are things in life that are said that are implied. You obviously need the Spirit to be able to catch these kinds of things and you need to believe there is a perfect Word of God. But this is a spiritual truth you cannot accept or handle. You see the Scriptures as corrupted to the sands of time and so then YOU become the authority ultimately to fill in the gaps and or to correct what the Bible says (in the parts of the Bible you don't like).

You see this is what people say when they want to make up things. It does not have to be in the scriptures you just have to imagine it.
First you have to find where tobacco is corrupting......LOL....smoking? They burnt animals in the temple.

Right and there was no nicotine in the animals when they burned them.
Nor did they role the animals up with nicotine and smoke them.
AGAIN. If you defile the temple of God, He will destroy you (1 Corinthians 3:17).
You can defile your temple in many ways. By sin, by poisonous substances, etcetera.
It does not take a rocket scientist to fill in the blanks and figure it out. But again... this is why the Word of God is spiritual.
Your never going to see it unless you have a change by the Spirit to see that His Word is pure.

You have not shown anything. Find a requirement for a wedding ceremony in the scriptures. You have prominent figures in the Old Testament...where is King David's or King Solomon's wedding ceremonies?
John chapter 2. Jesus attended a wedding party. That means they had ceremonies involving wedding back then.

Sexual desire comes with it own sexual imagery. But again it illustrates how negative you are about sexuality. SEX IS SO DIRTY, NASTY, AND SINFUL A CHRISTIAN SHOULD NOT EVEN IMAGINE IT! All so funny!
Sex exists within the framework of marriage in that they are to do so with their spouse and not to please themselves.
Again, if you want to be biblical, show me in the Bible where a person can have sexual fantasies and be okay with God.
I get the impression that this is condemned in Matthew 5:28-30. But if you want to play games with your soul, go right ahead.
I would rather play it safe and make it into the Kingdom through the narrow way.
 

Grailhunter

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You may not fit the mold perfectly on all points, but you do hold to the things listed in the article.

The problem is that my religion is based on the Bible and that shocks people. I don't care what people think. My religion is not based on what people think.

No. You don't agree with the Scriptures.
You said God did not write any Bible (See here).
And then see my reply to your statement on that here.

That is wrong.....I agree with the scriptures.....I don't think the world is flat.....
God inspired the scriptures and far as who wrote the Bible....All Bibles were put together by people.

I believe your understanding on the Bible is carnal. You have to first believe the Bible in order to be transformed by it in order to truly see what it says.

I do not think you care what the Bible says.....you are making it up as you go.....or subscribing to the word of men instead of the Word of God.
It's still a yoke. It's still a burden. We have to pick up our cross, deny ourselves, and follow Him.
As for being set free by the truth: This is if you continue in His Word (John 8:31-32). This means AFTER you are born again by the Spirit and water (the Scriptures in that it is a divine book), you have to put the Word of God on the inside of you continually. You have to keep renewing your mind with the truth and be transformed by it (Romans 12:1-2). David hid God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (Psalms 119:11).

The truth set you free from lies.

Again, you need to be born of water in order to properly understand spiritual things in the Bible. Right now you are looking at things from an unbeliever's perspective and believing only parts of the Bible you want to believe in while also holding on to worldly wisdom like Evolution, etcetera.

It has not done you any good.
Unless you do not have anything more truthful than all this, I will not respond to you anymore today.....I have western to watch.
 

Bible Highlighter

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The problem is that my religion is based on the Bible and that shocks people. I don't care what people think. My religion is not based on what people think.
No it isn't because you don't believe in any perfect Bible to believe in.

I don't think the world is flat.....

I don't believe the world is flat, either.
Not sure how your stating this actually helps you.

God inspired the scriptures and far as who wrote the Bible....All Bibles were put together by people.
While it is true that God inspired the Scriptures, you are incorrect that it was men alone who compiled God's Holy Word.
God was the One who was preserving His Word. Without divine preservation, then.... divine inspiration is a waste of time.

I do not think you care what the Bible says.....you are making it up as you go.....or subscribing to the word of men instead of the Word of God.

Funny. That's exactly what I think you are doing. We both cannot be right.
But I believe the Bible and bible history supports what I believe and I am confident in that (even if I were to be skeptical of my own viewpoint trying to tear apart what I know; I would still be convinced of what I know is the truth because it is that solid and good).

The truth set you free from lies.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He is the One who can set us free and by His Word.

It has not done you any good.
Sure it has. God has changed my life for the better.


Unless you do not have anything more truthful than all this, I will not respond to you anymore today.....
May the Lord bless you (even if we disagree on Scripture strongly).


I have western to watch.

If you want to watch a really good Christian movie that is a Western, I would encourage you to check out this film here:

The Redemption of Henry Myers:
full

You can rent it online at Amazon Prime Video:
Amazon.com: Watch The Redemption of Henry Myers | Prime Video

(Great Christian film; This does not mean I endorse the director or the actors).
 

Grailhunter

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While it is true that God inspired the Scriptures, you are incorrect that it was men alone who compiled God's Holy Word.
God was the One who was preserving His Word. Without divine preservation, then.... divine inspiration is a waste of time.

Man wrote the scriptures....no translation can completely agree. Best to go back to the source.
You are getting off topic.
bottom line sex is not sinful.....God made everything from attraction, desire, to uniting.....not the devil.
There in no requirement for a wedding ceremony in the scriptures.
And it was over 7000 years before it became a requirement.
 

Bible Highlighter

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What are man-made sins?
Actually a survey of the various denominations provides a good list of man-made sins…not that any one denomination believes all of these.

Various types of music
1 John 2:15
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”


Drinking alcoholic beverages
It depends on the person's conscience and they cannot drink to get drunk.

Check out my write up here to learn more:


Drinking coffee…tea...anything with caffeine

Yes. I agree. These are not sins.

Eating pork

Before the cross: This was a sin to the Jew to eat pork according to the Law of Moses.
But believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or contract deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.).

Eating food that is not Kosher

Ditto.

Eating chocolate, made from the same plant that cocaine is made from

Is it a harmful substance? Then... no. It's not a sin. So I agree.

Yes. Gambling is a sin.
While I am strongly against Calvinism, ironically they have come up with a really great article on how gambling is a sin.

(Note: I do not endorse the other view of this website or author; I merely agree with their explanation on how gambling is a sin).

Cards and dice and board games
Not all dice and board games are sinful. Some of them can be bible focused.
But role playing games are sinful.

Check out my write up here:


Side Note:

Yes, I used to play a lot of role playing games growing up. But as Paul said...

“...and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,” (Philippians 3:8).

Not going to church regularly
I agree. But believers should desire to be among the brethren. I see this as gathering in each other's homes and not in a big building, though.

Women speaking in church
1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

Women wearing pants
I believe this is a cultural issue and it also is a matter of conscience, as well.
If a women's conscience condemns herself in wearing pants, she should not go against her conscience.

The 1960's is when pants for women became culturally acceptable.

Romans 13:7 (New Heart English)
“Give therefore to everyone what you owe: taxes to whom taxes are due; customs to whom customs; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor.”

If we were living in the 1920's, I would say that it was not as culturally acceptable yet for women to wear pants.
So in this case, if we lived during that time period, I would have advised against women wearing pants because it would be an offense to many. Paul said he became a Jew to win the Jews. So why bring in any unnecessary offense? Believers are to be wise as serpents, and yet innocent as doves.

Women wearing shorts
It depends on the length. If they are wearing those super shorts that look like panties (like where I live), then that is not acceptable because it makes men to simply lust after them (Which is wrong).

Women wearing make-up

Agreed. This is not a sin. Women can adorn themselves for their husbands (See: 1 Peter 3:5).

Women wearing dresses above the knees

I think it's okay as long as modesty in one's dress is taken into consideration on this. It should not be a mini skirt by any means or a skirt that shows any underwear (that would illicit lust from men around them).

Women wearing dress or top that are not tight around the neck. In other words showing cleavage

Yes, this is wrong, as well. To show cleavage is to make men lust after such cleavage. It's private area of the body that men can get excited over in seeing it. So it's not wise to make others to stumble into sin.

Women taking shoes off in church

Never heard of that one. That's really weird. But I don't think this is a major problem happening in most churches these days.
 
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Grailhunter

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1 John 2:15
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”



It depends on the person's conscience and they cannot drink to get drunk.

Check out my write up here to learn more:




Yes. I agree. These are not sins.



Before the cross: This was a sin to the Jew to eat pork according to the Law of Moses.
But believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or contract deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.).



Ditto.



Is it a harmful substance? Then... no. It's not a sin. So I agree.


Yes. Gambling is a sin.
While I am strongly against Calvinism, ironically they have come up with a really great article on how gambling is a sin.

(Note: I do not endorse the other view of this website or author; I merely agree with their explanation on how gambling is a sin).


Not all dice and board games are sinful. Some of them can be bible focused.
But role playing games are sinful.

Check out my write up here:


Side Note:

Yes, I used to play a lot of role playing games growing up. But as Paul said...

“...and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,” (Philippians 3:8).


I agree. But believers should desire to be among the brethren. I see this as gathering in each other's homes and not in a big building, though.


1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”


I believe this is a cultural issue and it also is a matter of conscience, as well.
If a women's conscience condemns herself in wearing pants, she should not go against her conscience.

The 1960's is when pants for women became culturally acceptable.

Romans 13:7 (New Heart English)
“Give therefore to everyone what you owe: taxes to whom taxes are due; customs to whom customs; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor.”

If we were living in the 1920's, I would say that it was not as culturally acceptable yet for women to wear pants.
So in this case, if we lived during that time period, I would have advised against women wearing pants because it would be an offense to many. Paul said he became a Jew to win the Jews. So why bring in any unnecessary offense? Believers are to be wise as serpents, and yet innocent as doves.


It depends on the length. If they are wearing those super shorts that look like panties (like where I live), then that is not acceptable because it makes men to simply lust after them (Which is wrong).



Agreed. This is not a sin. Women can adorn themselves for their husbands (See: 1 Peter 3:5).



I think it's okay as long as modesty in one's dress is taken into consideration on this. It should not be a mini skirt by any means or a skirt that shows any underwear (that would illicit lust from men around them).



Yes, this is wrong, as well. To show cleavage is to make men lust after such cleavage. It's private area of the body that men can get excited over in seeing it. So it's not wise to make others to stumble into sin.



Never heard of that one. That's really weird. But I don't think this is a major problem happening in most churches these days.

Any of these substances listed here is a matter of choice, nothing to do with the Bible or religion.

Restrictions of gaming do not occur in the Bible.

Alcohol, specifically wine has been part of Christianity from the start....ritual....symbolisms....parables. Up until recently the Catholic churches in Europe usually had vineyard on their property.....and no body is making grape juice and during this period there are no grapepress....only winepresses LOL grapepress is not even a word in the English language.

Dress......dress appropriate for the occasion. Respect yourself and others......String bikinis belong on the beach....
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Any of these substances listed here is a matter of choice, nothing to do with the Bible or religion.

Again, you need to be born by the Spirit and water to see what I am talking about. Otherwise, you will just keep repeating the same ole broken record.

Restrictions of gaming do not occur in the Bible.

Read the thread. I provide biblical reasons.

Alcohol specifically wine has been part of Christianity from the start....ritual....symbolisms....

I believe there are...

Three Types of Wine in the Bible:

Among the saints and various cultures, wine in Biblical times was mixed with water. This would be one of the three types of wine mentioned in the Bible. Here is a quick list of the three types of wine in the Bible:

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
It was primarily barbarians or pagan Gentle nations who drank this kind of wine.

#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content).
This was the type of wine the Israelite drank and it was the wine that was served by the wedding organizer at Cana. Israelites would store fully fermented wine in leather pouches and or by other methods and then they would dilute it with water in order to drink it.

#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).
This was the wine that Jesus made at the wedding at Cana. It is also the wine used in the Passover.

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 CJB
“Your silver is no longer pure, your wine is watered down.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to drink it more safely like an Israelite.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine to the Israelite.

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.

Side Note:

If people actually look at an English dictionary sometime they would realize that one of the definitions for wine is…

3. the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc.:

Source:

Up until recently the Catholic churches in Europe usually had vineyard on their property

The Catholic Church has nothing to do with what we read in the Scriptures involving the early church. I believe the Catholic Church is merely the continuation of Rome’s pagan polytheist religion with some Christian elements mixed into it. But someone might protest and say, Yeah, … but don’t they read the Bible? Well, at one point in history they used to kill their own people for possessing the Scriptures. They even killed William Tyndale for translatint the Scriptures into English. They tried to stop King James and his translation with a super bomb. It was not until 1943 that the Catholic Church made a change to allow the regular lower minions (or church attenders) to read the Bible themselves.

.....and no body is making grape juice and during this period there are no grapepress....only winepresses LOL grapepress is not a word in the English language.

Your own statements just shows your own lack of knowledge about wine making in bible times.

Dress......dress appropriate for the occasion. Respect yourself and others......
You said above the knee dresses. Well, there are mini skirt dresses (Which would not be appropriate).
So your saying that dresses above the knee is not even accurate by your book (If I am understanding you correctly here).

String bikinis belong on the beach....

I said nothing about string bikinis. I was referring to boy short bikinis and or booty shorts.
These are inappropriate.
No father should ever let their daughter dress like that.
 
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Grailhunter

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Again, you need to be born by the Spirit and water to see what I am talking about. Otherwise, you will just keep repeating the same ole broken record.



Read the thread. I provide biblical reasons.



I believe there are...

Three Types of Wine in the Bible:

Among the saints and various cultures, wine in Biblical times was mixed with water. This would be one of the three types of wine mentioned in the Bible. Here is a quick list of the three types of wine in the Bible:



I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 CJB
“Your silver is no longer pure, your wine is watered down.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to drink it more safely like an Israelite.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine to the Israelite.

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.

Side Note:

If people actually look at an English dictionary sometime they would realize that one of the definitions for wine is…

3. the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc.:

Source:



The Catholic Church has nothing to do with what we read in the Scriptures involving the early church. I believe the Catholic Church is merely the continuation of Rome’s pagan polytheist religion with some Christian elements mixed into it. But someone might protest and say, Yeah, … but don’t they read the Bible? Well, at one point in history they used to kill their own people for possessing the Scriptures. They even killed William Tyndale for translation the Scriptures into English. They tried to stop the King James translation with a super bomb. It was not until 1943 that they made a change to allow the regular lower minions (or church attenders) to read the Bible themselves.



Your own statements just shows your own lack of knowledge about wine making in bible times.
I will let you figure it out if you want to research the internet sometime on a deeper level on that topic.
I have talked about this topic to death for a very long time on multiple Christian forums.


You said above the knee dresses. Well, there are mini skirt dresses (Which would not be appropriate).
So your saying that dresses above the knee is not even accurate by your book (If I am understanding you correctly here).



I said nothing about string bikinis. I was referring to boy short bikinis and or booty shorts.
These are inappropriate.
No father should ever let their daughter dress like that.

And you think you understand wine and it various uses in this time period....I don't think so.
 

Bible Highlighter

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And you think you understand wine and it various uses in this time period....I don't think so.
Ancient Methods of Grape Juice Preservation:


21 WARNINGS

That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)

Passages For the Old Testament Saint:

(Before the Cross: The OT Saint did not have a liberty in Christ to drink intoxicating beverages)
(Just as they did not have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)​


1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
- God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
(The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).

2) Deuteronomy 32:33
- Enemy's wine is like the poison of serpents vs. Israelite's pure blood of the grape (verse 14).

3) 1 Samuel 1:14-15
- Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

4) Proverbs 4:17
- Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

5) Proverbs 20:1
- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

6) Proverbs 23:31
- God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

7) Proverbs 23:32
- Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

8) Proverbs 23:35
- Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning.
(It also says Alcohol is habit forming).

9) Proverb 31:4-5
- Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

10) Ecclesiastes 2:3
- The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not.
(c.f. Ecclesiastes 12:8)

11) Ecclesiastes 10:17
- A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

12) Isaiah 5:22
- There is a woe unto them who mix strong drinks.

13) Jeremiah 35:2-14
- The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

14) Daniel 1:5-17
- Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

15) Hosea 4:11
- Intoxicating wine seduces the heart.


Passages For the New Testament Saint:


(After the Cross: NT Saints (Not All) have a liberty in Christ to drink alcohol soberly & privately)
(Just as they have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
(Those whose conscience condemns them in drinking are not to drink)
(Those who are leaders in the church are not to drink alcohol)​


16) Romans 14:21
- Do not do anything (Including drinking intoxicating beverages) to make your brother to stumble.

17) 1 Timothy 3:2-3
- Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

18) 1 Timothy 3:8
- Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

19) 1 Timothy 3:11
- Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

20) Titus 1:7-8
- A bishop is not to be given to wine.

21) Titus 2:2-3
- The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.



Source:
75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol
 

Grailhunter

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Ancient Methods of Grape Juice Preservation:


21 WARNINGS

That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)

Passages For the Old Testament Saint:

(Before the Cross: The OT Saint did not have a liberty in Christ to drink intoxicating beverages)
(Just as they did not have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)​


1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
- God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
(The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).

2) Deuteronomy 32:33
- Enemy's wine is like the poison of serpents vs. Israelite's pure blood of the grape (verse 14).

3) 1 Samuel 1:14-15
- Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

4) Proverbs 4:17
- Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

5) Proverbs 20:1
- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

6) Proverbs 23:31
- God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

7) Proverbs 23:32
- Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

8) Proverbs 23:35
- Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning.
(It also says Alcohol is habit forming).

9) Proverb 31:4-5
- Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

10) Ecclesiastes 2:3
- The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not.
(c.f. Ecclesiastes 12:8)

11) Ecclesiastes 10:17
- A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

12) Isaiah 5:22
- There is a woe unto them who mix strong drinks.

13) Jeremiah 35:2-14
- The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

14) Daniel 1:5-17
- Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

15) Hosea 4:11
- Intoxicating wine seduces the heart.


Passages For the New Testament Saint:


(After the Cross: NT Saints (Not All) have a liberty in Christ to drink alcohol soberly & privately)
(Just as they have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
(Those whose conscience condemns them in drinking are not to drink)
(Those who are leaders in the church are not to drink alcohol)​


16) Romans 14:21
- Do not do anything (Including drinking intoxicating beverages) to make your brother to stumble.

17) 1 Timothy 3:2-3
- Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

18) 1 Timothy 3:8
- Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

19) 1 Timothy 3:11
- Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

20) Titus 1:7-8
- A bishop is not to be given to wine.

21) Titus 2:2-3
- The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.



Source:
75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol

There is no doubt that that the wise warn of drinking to excess in the context of a drinking culture.

But the Bible does not define drinking as a sin.

And I have already went over the connections between wine and Christianity.
 

Bible Highlighter

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There is no doubt that that the wise warn of drinking to excess in the context of a drinking culture.

But the Bible does not define drinking as a sin.

And I have already went over the connections between wine and Christianity.
You did not read carefully what I wrote. I am not a Prohibitionist unless one is a Christian leader like a deacon or unless an NT saint’s conscience condemns them to drink it socially (With them knowing alcohol is a poison). But there are exceptions in that it can be used as a medical treatment. Timothy was told to drink a little wine for the infirmities of his stomach (1 Timothy 5:23).

Under the Old Covenant:

The Jew would buy strong intoxicating drink from others, and they would carry it in leather wine bottles for travel, BUT… they would not drink this wine in it’s pure state if they are seeking to be faithful to God. They would dilute the wine with water (mix it) so as to take away the stronger effects of it. So their heart could still be glad when they drank the wine, but it would not make them to lose control when doing certain things (For example if they were swing an axe to chop wood for a fire, they would be less likely to potentially hurt themselves).
 

Grailhunter

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You did not read carefully what I wrote. I am not a Prohibitionist unless one is a Christian leader like a deacon or unless an NT saint’s conscience condemns them to drink it socially (With them knowing alcohol is a poison). But there are exceptions in that it can be used as a medical treatment. Timothy was told to drink a little wine for the infirmities of his stomach (1 Timothy 5:23).

Under the Old Covenant:

The Jew would buy strong intoxicating drink from others, and they would carry it in leather wine bottles for travel, BUT… they would not drink this wine in it’s pure state if they are seeking to be faithful to God. They would dilute the wine with water (mix it) so as to take away the stronger effects of it. So their heart could still be glad when they drank the wine, but it would not make them to lose control when doing certain things (For example if they were swing an axe to chop wood for a fire, they would be less likely to potentially hurt themselves).
Ok, if you want me to educate you on the history of wine open a thread and we will go at it.
The point here is that drinking is not a sin.
They have turned the Christian places of worship into addicts anonymous. The religion caters to the people that have those problems....So they make anything that a person could have problems with a sin....a man-made sin which is a sin in itself....giving people fuel to condemn and gossip about things that are not sins....when they themselves are sinning by doing that. The problem with lies are that they cause more problems and once you lie you have to tell more lies to cover for the first.....and this is being done from the pulpit at churches. Lying from the pulpit is a bad thing.

This is an old problem because over the centuries the false beliefs in Christianity have multiplied exponentially because they think it is ok to lie from the pulpit.
They may be doing it because they think it is for their own good, but as they say....the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. The truth is always best.

My ministry is about truth....Johnny Appleseed of truth.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Ok, if you want me to educate you on the history of wine open a thread and we will go at it.
The point here is that drinking is not a sin.

Alcohol can be a sin if a person’s conscience condemns them in drinking if they know the full facts that it is a known poison (in that it offers no nutritional value and it seeks to attack your immune system and body), and it does nothing good but to take many lives every year (drunk driving accidents, cancers, etcetera), or if some people drink 150 (Getting them drunk very quickly). But is it a sin every case? No.

They have turned the Christian places of worship into addicts anonymous. The religion caters to the people that have those problems....

We are not to be brought under the power of anything (1 Corinthians 6:12). But you would not know that if you believed all of the Scriptures and you put the Word on the inside of you. Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin. The things of this world can bring people into bondage to it.

So they make anything that a person could have problems with a sin....a man-made sin which is a sin in itself....giving people fuel to condemn and gossip about things that are not sins....when they themselves are sinning by doing that.
In some cases on your list, you are right, but in many other things you listed you are dead wrong and you will have to give an answer to the Lord Jesus Christ for justifying sin.

They may be doing it because they think it is for their own good, but as they say....the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. The truth is always best.
But your truth is not the truth of the Bible, though. You don't even have a perfect inerrant Word of God to believe in to be able to claim any kind of real authority.

My ministry is about truth....Johnny Appleseed of truth.
My ministry is truth from the Lord Jesus Christ and not Johnny Appleseed.
Paul says, were you baptized in the name of Paul?
 

Grailhunter

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Alcohol can be a sin if a person’s conscience condemns them in drinking i

Who put lied to them and put it in their head that it was wrong....and it is not poison.

(in that it offers no nutritional value and it seeks to attack your immune system and body

Wrong again. Today there are documented health benefits from drinking wine and beer and that is more than one benefit.
In ancient times there were even more benefits. Cultures that drank wine had fewer diseases....how many plagues occurred during the time of the Roman Empire? Then there is the issue of wells.....wells can be a nasty thing....insects, dead animals, reptiles and birds and droppings. Each well had its on flora and people mostly got use to it, but when people traveled it would make them sick drinking out of other wells....Paul telling Timothy to drink a little wine was probably due to that. People would drink wine and it could be mixed with water, to help with this.

We are not to be brought under the power of anything (1 Corinthians 6:12). But you would not know that if you believed all of the Scriptures and you put the Word on the inside of you. Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin. The things of this world can bring people into bondage to it.

Again you are back to the church serving as addict anonymous. The way the church deals with it is to make it a sin.....alcohol, drugs, gambling whatever, they make it a sin so the person that does have a problem with any of this also gets an unhealthy dose of guilt.....they are being told they are failing God....so they have two problems now.....Lies cause problems. There are professional services for people that are addicted to one of many things. No reason to lie to the entire congregation. But I do agree with 1st Corinthians 6:12 a person should not let anything control them .....that includes food....but the church does not have to make food a sin.....because they do not have the authority to make anything a sin and it is a sin for them to do it and in the process twist the Word of God.
 

Bible Highlighter

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What are man-made sins?
Actually a survey of the various denominations provides a good list of man-made sins…not that any one denomination believes all of these.

Wearing jewelry
Genesis 24:47-48 says:
47 “And I asked her, and said, Whose daughter art thou? And she said, The daughter of Bethuel, Nahor's son, whom Milcah bare unto him: and I put the earring upon her face, and the bracelets upon her hands. 48 And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son.”

So it's true that to wear jewelry is not a sin. However, I believe that the danger comes into one being vain or in falling into vanity if they are excessive with jewelry or they seek to wear costly jewelry to draw attention to oneself.

This article sums it up nicely.


Men with long hair
Samson had long hair, so in the Old Covenant this was an exception to the rule for some to take a Nazarite vow.
However, we are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers.

1 Corinthians 11:14 says:
“Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?”

Why would a Christian want to disgrace himself before others?
Would that not make for a poor testimony for Christ?

1 Corinthians 11:4 says,
“Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.”

Why would you want to dishonor your head while praying to God?

1 Corinthians 11:7 says,
“For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God:”

Why would a Christian want to hide the image of the glory of God?

It doesn't make sense unless they are selfish and they want to do their own thing.

Women with short hair
1 Corinthians 11:6 says:
“For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.”

1 Corinthians 11:5 says:
“But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.”

So a woman with her head not being covered with long hair might as well be shorned (shaved all over - like her eyebrows, etc.) and yet those who are shaven all over their entire body is to be considered a shame (So let her be covered - i.e. let her long hair cover her).

For every woman who prays with her head uncovered (i.e. by her not having long hair) she dishonors her head. Our heads are a part of the temples of the Holy Ghost. Why would we want to dishonor our temples?

It doesn't make any sense unless one is selfish and wants to do their own thing that is not found in God's Word.

Women working outside the home
Never heard of a evangelical church promoting this as a sin. So it's not really a major concern except for maybe small groups who do not have much influence upon many.

Female alone in a room with any male not her husband or father
While not a sin exactly, I think this is situational and it involves one needing spiritual discernment. You wouldn't want to leave your daughter in a room with a sex addict or a boy in whom you know is trying to seduce her. Neither would you want your wife sharing in the same hotel room with another business partner who is a male. But of course a faithful Christian man being in a room with one's wife for counseling or other bible related matters is not wrong of course. So a Christian would not place themselves into certain situations that could lead for a sin to easily happen. So while this may not be a sin exactly, in some cases it can lead to a slippery slope to people sinning.

Leviticus 19:28 says:
“Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.”

This was in regards to not imitating the pagan nations who did this.
What about the New Covenant we are under?

Well, there is no evidence that this command was said to be undone by the New Covenant.
Why? Because Romans 12 says,

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” (Romans 12:2).

Tattoos was all about being conformed to the world or the nations around them. Christians are not conform this this world according to Romans 12:2.

Tattooing is also cutting into the flesh and releasing blood. God sheds His blood when making covenants. Why would we want to willfully shed our blood and make blood covenants with others when God has not called us to do that?

It makes no sense.

Plus, tattoos (depending on the type of tattoo and the amount of them) can make people have appearance that they are evil looking.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 says,
“Abstain from all appearance of evil.”

They danced in the Bible.

Psalms 149:3 (KJB)
“Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.”

But this would dancing to give honor to God.

But dancing generally goes hand in hand with secular music that has secular worldly lyrics that do not honor God (Which is a problem).

Just stop and listen to the lyrics of secular music and you will see what I am talking about.
Most lyrics are not God honoring.
Even lyrics back in my grandparents day had words within them that sought to get you to love the world and not God. Sure, some music did try to honor God, but what are there other songs are like?

Also, what fellowship does light have with darkness? Why would you want to fellowship with unbelievers?
So if you are dancing with unbelievers to have fun, you are fellowshiping in darkness. But what fellowship does light have with darkness? Granted, believers can be around unbelievers (like family) to love them and to honor their parents, and to reach them for Christ. But to just hang out with the world is wrong for a Christian believer. Well, that is if they truly care to follow Jesus Christ and not this world and it's ways. Many Christians today are worldly focused. But we are told to not love the world, and neither the things in this world.
 

Grailhunter

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Genesis 24:47-48 says:
47 “And I asked her, and said, Whose daughter art thou? And she said, The daughter of Bethuel, Nahor's son, whom Milcah bare unto him: and I put the earring upon her face, and the bracelets upon her hands. 48 And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son.”

So it's true that to wear jewelry is not a sin. However, I believe that the danger comes into one being vain or in falling into vanity if they are excessive with jewelry or they seek to wear costly jewelry to draw attention to oneself.

This article sums it up nicely.
Mostly agree but still not a sin that comes with a pop up timer. And then there is intent.....if I love a woman she is going to have diamonds.....because I want it.

1 Corinthians 11:6 says:
“For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.”

1 Corinthians 11:5 says:
“But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.”

So a woman with her head not being covered with long hair might as well be shorned (shaved all over - like her eyebrows, etc.) and yet those who are shaven all over their entire body is to be considered a shame (So let her be covered - i.e. let her long hair cover her).

For every woman who prays with her head uncovered (i.e. by her not having long hair) she dishonors her head. Our heads are a part of the temples of the Holy Ghost. Why would we want to dishonor our temples?

It doesn't make any sense unless one is selfish and wants to do their own thing that is not found in God's Word.

but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 1st Corinthians 11:15 Not too many bald women out there so they all have some covering. I prefer women with long hair so I vote for that.

Never heard of a evangelical church promoting this as a sin. So it's not really a major concern except for maybe small groups who do not have much influence upon many.

Most of this is culture and time period specific more than biblical. You can look at the Mosaic Laws regarding rape and you will see that a female could get herself in trouble even executed because they were by themselves.

Today it is mostly men that think.....women should know their place....

Plus, tattoos (depending on the type of tattoo and the amount of them) can make people have appearance that they are evil looking.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 says,
“Abstain from all appearance of evil.”

I see you are going for the stretch.....grasping at straws.... on this one....that is how false beliefs are promoted.
Do you trim the ends of your beard?
Arrange your cattle in the field by color?
Tasteful tattoos are ok. Crude tattoos are stupid....debatable if they are a sin.....

Psalms 149:3 (KJB)
“Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.”

But this would dancing to give honor to God.

But dancing generally goes hand in hand with secular music that has secular worldly lyrics that do not honor God (Which is a problem).

Just stop and listen to the lyrics of secular music and you will see what I am talking about.
Most lyrics are not God honoring.
Even lyrics back in my grandparents day had words within them that sought to get you to love the world and not God. Sure, some music did try to honor God, but what are there other songs are like?

Also, what fellowship does light have with darkness? Why would you want to fellowship with unbelievers?
So if you are dancing with unbelievers to have fun, you are fellowshiping in darkness. But what fellowship does light have with darkness? Granted, believers can be around unbelievers (like family) to love them and to honor their parents, and to reach them for Christ. But to just hang out with the world is wrong for a Christian believer. Well, that is if they truly care to follow Jesus Christ and not this world and it's ways. Many Christians today are worldly focused. But we are told to not love the world, and neither the things in this world.

Again this is how people promote false beliefs. What about walking sexy?
The Bible does not say it so people superimpose what they think over the scriptures.
Again it is about respect for yourself and others.
It is not dancing that is wrong or a sin....you can sit in chair and be profane.
And where is the line.....some women can walk a crossed a room and drive people nuts....good and bad. Because "things" move.