Guide To The Post Tribulation

[Avalon1]

I fully expect what you "believe", but maybe you should obey Scripture.

That's all I've been doing.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I believe the Tribulation - Rapture - 1000 year millennial reign.
I found a good article about it.

Well, you can read all kinds of "barnyard", but why not read what Scripture says? Are you adverse to Scripture?

I know that you weren't familiar with where the Book of Hebrews was located, so are you aware that 1 Thess. 4:16 says that the DEAD must rise before there's a "rapture"; and that Rev. 20:7-13 says the DEAD don't rise until the thousand years are ended?

And how will those who are alive and remain on earth get to the NEW JERUSALEM except by ASCENDING, to be with the LORD FOREVER IN THE AIR (in the New Jerusalem)?


Some people like having their ears tickled; or do you prefer the TRUTH of Scripture?
Bobby Jo

 

[Avalon1]

Wow this thread got featured!

 

[Bobby Jo]

Wow this thread got featured!

When Peter took his eyes off Jesus, he sank. Keep your eyes where they should be.

Bobby Jo

 

[OzSpen]

Those passages were fulfilled by 70ad

Anthony,

If those verses from Revelation 13 were fulfilled in AD 70, does that mean you consider we are living in the Millennium now? Would you consider your Eschatology to be Amillennial?

I believe the Tribulation - Rapture - 1000 year millennial reign.

I found a good article about it.

Why We Believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture | Endtime Ministries with Irvin Baxter

Anthony,

I'm so pleased to see your posts. What you are writing is biblically based. That link you gave by Irvin Baxter gives 19 points that show a post-tribulation rapture. However, it is a premillennial, post-tribulation rapture.

One of the great biblical expositors of this position was the late Dr George Eldon Ladd. See 'A Commentary on the Revelation of St John' (Google Books). He wrote another, 'The Blessed Hope' (Google Books).

Oz

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Anthony,

If those verses from Revelation 13 were fulfilled in AD 70, does that mean you consider we are living in the Millennium now? Would you consider your Eschatology to be Amillennial?


Anthony,

I'm so pleased to see your posts. What you are writing is biblically based. That link you gave by Irvin Baxter gives 19 points that show a post-tribulation rapture. However, it is a premillennial, post-tribulation rapture.

One of the great biblical expositors of this position was the late Dr George Eldon Ladd. See 'A Commentary on the Revelation of St John' (Google Books). He wrote another, 'The Blessed Hope' (Google Books).

Oz

George Ladd is a good read. He is historic premill.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

That is a misapplication of that passage. What it pertains to is that our citizenship is in Heaven.

Had Revelation 13 been literally fulfilled then every Christian would have been wiped out in 70 AD. Also the reign of the Antichrist is limited to just 3 1/2 years. Which means the Great Tribulation would have been finished, the cataclysmic cosmic events would have been finished, there would be no heavenly bodies in existence, and the literal Second Coming of Christ would have already taken place. Which also means that this world would not be in the mess that it now is in. Do you now see how absurd your position is?

what do you mean no heavenly bodies would exist?

 

[Randy Kluth]

I believe the Tribulation - Rapture - 1000 year millennial reign.

I found a good article about it.

Why We Believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture | Endtime Ministries with Irvin Baxter

Yea, there are tons of arguments against the pre and mid-tribulation positions. I have actually heard pretribbers admit that their position has no explicit theology in the Bible. Of course, they are quick to claim that postrib has no explicit theology either.

However, 2 Thes 2 and the Olivet Discourse, as well as Dan 7, are as explicit as they can be. Paul said the Coming of Christ for the Church will take place *at* the destruction of the Antichrist. This is based on Dan 7.

Also, Christ told his Disciples to reject all pretend Kingdoms or comings of Christ as false if they precede his Coming from heaven with the clouds in full universal glory. We should believe the Bible, and not popular fantasies.

The fact is, Christians are afraid of suffering, and will do anything, including change the Bible, to escape what they want to believe is God's Wrath. They know Christians are not destined to suffer God's Wrath.

But suffering persecution and suffering troubles in this world is not suffering God's Wrath *against us.* If we are to minister in a fallen world, we will have to suffer the effects of living in a fallen world. That is the noble thing to be willing to do.

 

[Enoch111]

So if someone expects to be "raptured" and then return with Jesus, they'd better plan on being "beheaded", because THAT's the ONLY way they'll "return with Jesus".

My advice to you Bobby Jo is to refrain from posting on eschatology. You are liable to create a lot of spiritual confusion since all your posts on this subject as pure nonsense.

 

[Enoch111]

what do you mean no heavenly bodies would exist?

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (Rev 21:1)

According to your very faulty understanding -- no doubt gleaned from others -- this is where we should be (as above). And when the first heaven passes away, all heavenly bodies pass away with it, and only the New Jerusalem remains (as you will note further in that chapter).

 

[Enoch111]

Perhaps I didn't clarify enough, the rapture happens near the end of the tribulation.

Obviously you know neither the significance nor the consequences of the Tribulation. No, the Resurrection/Rapture must occur BEFORE the Tribulation in order for the saints to come with Christ at His Second Coming. All the Tribulation saints will be killed, and they will only be resurrected AFTER the Second Coming.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... pure nonsense.

YOU, my dear friend have a LOCK on PURE NONSENSE, SLANDERS, ACCUSATIONS, and DEFAMATIONS.

Bobby Jo

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (Rev 21:1)

According to your very faulty understanding -- no doubt gleaned from others -- this is where we should be (as above). And when the first heaven passes away, all heavenly bowedies pass away with it, and only the New Jerusalem remains (as you will note further in that chapter).

you did not answer the question i asked you.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well, you can read all kinds of "barnyard", but why not read what Scripture says? Are you adverse to Scripture?

I know that you weren't familiar with where the Book of Hebrews was located, so are you aware that 1 Thess. 4:16 says that the DEAD must rise before there's a "rapture"; and that Rev. 20:7-13 says the DEAD don't rise until the thousand years are ended?

And how will those who are alive and remain on earth get to the NEW JERUSALEM except by ASCENDING, to be with the LORD FOREVER IN THE AIR (in the New Jerusalem)?


Some people like having their ears tickled; or do you prefer the TRUTH of Scripture?
Bobby Jo

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well, you can read all kinds of "barnyard", but why not read what Scripture says? Are you adverse to Scripture?

I know that you weren't familiar with where the Book of Hebrews was located, so are you aware that 1 Thess. 4:16 says that the DEAD must rise before there's a "rapture"; and that Rev. 20:7-13 says the DEAD don't rise until the thousand years are ended?

Rev 20.5 indicates the dead in Christ rise at the beginning of the thousand years.
There is another resurrection from the dead at the end of the thousand years. That would make sense of mortal humans continue on this earth for another thousand years after the Rapture of the Church.

 

[Davy]

I believe the Tribulation - Rapture - 1000 year millennial reign.

I found a good article about it.

Why We Believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture | Endtime Ministries with Irvin Baxter

Don't concern yourself with these naysayers here, your teaching on Christ's coming and gathering of the Church at the end of the tribulation is correct. It is clearly written in God's Word, and you showed it.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (Rev 21:1)

According to your very faulty understanding -- no doubt gleaned from others -- this is where we should be (as above). And when the first heaven passes away, all heavenly bodies pass away with it, and only the New Jerusalem remains (as you will note further in that chapter).

Not at all.
Rev.21 is describing the eternal state after the great White Throne judgment.
That happens on the last day.
Now you had posted this;

Had Revelation 13 been literally fulfilled then every Christian would have been wiped out in 70 AD. Also the reign of the Antichrist is limited to just 3 1/2 years.

Which means the Great Tribulation would have been finished, the cataclysmic cosmic events would have been finished, there would be no heavenly bodies in existence,

and the literal Second Coming of Christ would have already taken place. Which also means that this world would not be in the mess that it now is in. Do you now see how absurd your position is?

What cataclysmic cosmic events do you think you see in scripture?[the bolded green portion]
You suggest I have a very faulty understanding, so perhaps you could help me out here.
If I have a faulty view, I would like biblical correction.
It might be that the faulty ideas are coming from you

 

[Avalon1]

Well, you can read all kinds of "barnyard", but why not read what Scripture says? Are you adverse to Scripture?

I know that you weren't familiar with where the Book of Hebrews was located, so are you aware that 1 Thess. 4:16 says that the DEAD must rise before there's a "rapture"; and that Rev. 20:7-13 says the DEAD don't rise until the thousand years are ended?

And how will those who are alive and remain on earth get to the NEW JERUSALEM except by ASCENDING, to be with the LORD FOREVER IN THE AIR (in the New Jerusalem)?


Some people like having their ears tickled; or do you prefer the TRUTH of Scripture?
Bobby Jo

The dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 doesn't explicitly indicate if it's referring to the rapture or the second coming but I believe it's referring to the second coming.

Who are the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:16? | GotQuestions.org

"So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ."

 

[Avalon1]

Don't concern yourself with these naysayers here, your teaching on Christ's coming and gathering of the Church at the end of the tribulation is correct. It is clearly written in God's Word, and you showed it.

Thank you.

 

[Avalon1]

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days,

‘the sun will be darkened,
the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken."

"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

@Anthony D'Arienzo

You don't think that's talking about the rapture, are you sure?