Guide To The Post Tribulation

[Avalon1]

When it says those days that's future tense. And it says "The Tribulation" not a tribulation, I cannot think of any other tribulations besides well the tribulation. I believe that theirs only one tribulation mentioned in the Bible.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ ...

ALL the DEAD have to wait until the end of the Millennial Kingdom to be raised, -- EXCEPT those who were martyred for refusing the mark of the beast. And to prove it, Rev. 20 says that ONLY the MARTYRED will Return with Jesus. So will the "church" be "raptured" and stay in "heaven" for eternity? -- That's not the account the liars give. They assert that the "church" will ascend, and then descend with Jesus.

Furthermore, if the "tribulation-era rapture of the church" were correct, then why are there FOUR DIFFERENT VERSIONS?!? -- Pre-Trib; Mid-Trib; Post-Trib; and of course the one for ignorant/lazy/stupid people -- Pan-trib.

But most importantly, we don't follow doctrines of men, we follow Scripture. And Scripture says the DEAD rise FIRST, and then those that are alive and remain on earth shall ascend to be with the LORD FOREVER IN THE AIR (in the New Jerusalem, at the end of the Millennial Kingdom).


And as I've already stated, -- I was told, AND BELIEVED, a lie. My church had a "pre-trib" rapture doctrine which I had to discover is FALSE. And I would assert that EVERY CHURCH has a FALSE DOCTRINE(s), so beware what men say.

Bobby Jo

 

[Taken]

The rapture happens on the last day, according to Jesus;
jn 6:
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rapture is raising Christ's Church.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me (Christ's People) I should lose nothing, but should raise it (Church) up AGAIN at the last day.

Did you forget about Gods People?
ISRAEL? They are Resurrected (not Raptured) at the Last Trump...after Tribulation, after Christ Church 1,OO0 yr reign...
All rise, Judgement, Earth renewed, all who ARE glorified...ISRAEL & Gentiles...occupy new Earth.

 

[Taken]

ALL the DEAD have to wait until the end of the Millennial Kingdom to be raised, -- EXCEPT those who were martyred for refusing the mark of the beast. And to prove it, Rev. 20 says that ONLY the MARTYRED will Return with Jesus. So will the "church" be "raptured" and stay in "heaven" for eternity? -- That's not the account the liars give. They assert that the "church" will ascend, and then descend with Jesus.

Furthermore, if the "tribulation-era rapture of the church" were correct, then why are there FOUR DIFFERENT VERSIONS?!? -- Pre-Trib; Mid-Trib; Post-Trib; and of course the one for ignorant/lazy/stupid people -- Pan-trib.

But most importantly, we don't follow doctrines of men, we follow Scripture. And Scripture says the DEAD rise FIRST, and then those that are alive and remain on earth shall ascend to be with the LORD FOREVER IN THE AIR (in the New Jerusalem, at the end of the Millennial Kingdom).


And as I've already stated, -- I was told, AND BELIEVED, a lie. My church had a "pre-trib" rapture doctrine which I had to discover is FALSE. And I would assert that EVERY CHURCH has a FALSE DOCTRINE(s), so beware what men say.

Bobby Jo

There have been several DEAD Body's and resurrections. Jesus, a young boy, (1 Kings 17: 16-23), Lazarus...etc.

And there are more to come.

Christ's Church,
Israel,
Fallen Angels, (moreso, unchained)
Random individuals from the Remnant,
The damned.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Rapture is raising Christ's Church.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me (Christ's People) I should lose nothing, but should raise it (Church) up AGAIN at the last day.

Did you forget about Gods People?
ISRAEL? They are Resurrected (not Raptured) at the Last Trump...after Tribulation, after Christ Church 1,OO0 yr reign...
All rise, Judgement, Earth renewed, all who ARE glorified...ISRAEL & Gentiles...occupy new Earth.

God tells us who is the true israel, those found in Christ at the last day.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

There have been several DEAD Body's and resurrections. Jesus, a young boy, (1 Kings 17: 16-23), Lazarus...etc.

And there are more to come.

Christ's Church,
Israel,
Fallen Angels, (moreso, unchained)
Random individuals from the Remnant,
The damned.

or this:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Taken]

...are you aware that 1 Thess. 4:16 says that the DEAD must rise before there's a "rapture"; and that Rev. 20:7-13 says the DEAD don't rise until the thousand years are ended?

Bobby Jo

Are you aware 1Thes is specifically those IN Christ.

And Rev 20 reveals those who reject the anti-Christ, during the Tribulation, Become IN Christ, and occupy Christ's kingdom on Earth, for 1,000 yrs....Then Gods Israel is Resurrected.

Rev.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] BUT the Rest of the Dead lived NOT again UNTIL.... the thousand years were finished. [/B] This is the first resurrection.

 

[Taken]

God tells us who is the true israel, those found in Christ at the last day.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jew, Greek, Gentile being One with No DIVISION..."shall Be".

That has not Yet Occured.
But it Shall Be people all the Same with the Same One Circumcision.

Jews remaining under Jewish Law are still circumcising foreskin in adherence to their Law. (They do not accept Jesus is the Christ, or Fulfilled the Law. No issue for them, if they continue under the Law, since Jesus DID NOT abolish their Law).

A Converted man IN Christ, has his Heart Circumcised, supernaturally, BY Christ.

All "who do" eventually, (before or during the Tribulation), who Accept Christ, receive the Same Supernatural Circumcision of the Heart.
Then "gathered together" they are all the Same (then has come to pass, no longer a division between Jew and Gentile).

I am a gentile. I have already accepted Christ. My heart has already been supernaturally Circumcised, By Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Avalon1]

Who are the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:16? | GotQuestions.org

"So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ."

@Bobby Jo

That's a good article on the subject.

 

[Bobby Jo]

or this:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Yep:

Rev. 20: 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.​

... which occurs:

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended ...​

... exactly as I've described.


Bobby Jo

 

[OzSpen]

George Ladd is a good read. He is historic premill.

You didn't answer my question. Is your eschatology Amillennial?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Yep:

Rev. 20: 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.​

... which occurs:

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended ...​

... exactly as I've described.


Bobby Jo

Hello Bobby Joe,
There are 4 main views on the topic at hand;

1] Postmillenial

2] Amillmillenial

3]Historic premillmillenial

4] Dispensational premillmillenial

Each view offers what they believe on each of the verses and words used.
Until you can describe all 4 views accurately it is probably best to not try and solve the puzzle, is what i have learned.

 

[Bobby Jo]

:

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection..[/QUOTE]​

This EXACTLY presents where the ONLY "DEAD" who can arise and join Jesus when HE Returns -- are THE MARTYRED for refusing the mark of the beast. EVERYONE ELSE has to wait until the thousand years are ended to be raised, and then those who are alive and remain shall be caught up (raptured) to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air.


Oh, wait, -- I've already said what Scripture says.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Hello Bobby Joe,

My parents named me, a male, Bobby Jo!

Bobby Jo

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You didn't answer my question. Is your eschatology Amillennial?

Sorry Oz,
I did not see this response till now.
i was taught the dispensational premill system first and can still teach it, even though i do not believe it is true.
i looked at historic premill for a bit,
Then i thought i was amill, but eventually realized half of the views I was reading about were Postmill,lol

I am still a work in progress, but i am currently in between 1, and 2;


1] Postmillenial

2] Amillmillenial

3]Historic premillmillenial

4] Dispensational premillmillenial

My studies over the past few years are more concerned about the Kingdom as a present reality, and how to live in light of it.

Jesus is ruling now in the midst of his enemies, psalm 110.
He rules and reigns from the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem Heb12;22-29

because of studying the book of Hebrews particularly chapters 2:4-8 and 12:22-29.
I am forced to attempt to live here on earth as a postmillennial person.

If I am incorrect, I would not have any trouble with any of the views, because One is the truth of God , and I will be happy with whatever our Lord has determined to do .
For most of us our individual eschatology will take place before the last day.

 

[Taken]

ALL the DEAD have to wait until the end of the Millennial Kingdom to be raised, -- EXCEPT those who were martyred for refusing the mark of the beast. And to prove it, Rev. 20 says that ONLY the MARTYRED will Return with Jesus. So will the "church" be "raptured" and stay in "heaven" for eternity? --
Bobby Jo

Where does it say the Raptured Church "goes" to Heaven?

It doesn't.
Jesus descends from Heaven to the Clouds.
Jesus "catches up" (Rapture) His Church UP to Him.
The Church (Christ's Bride) rises up (Rapture) (glorified Body, Restored soul, Quickened spirit) and meets Jesus IN the Clouds, (not IN Heaven, not ON Earth.) and sees the Christ the Lord...as He IS, Spirit....(and where Christ goes, so also do His Saints follow Him, Are with Him Forever.)
The Guests (Saints arrive, to be witnesses) of the ceremony of the Marriage Union of Christ and His Bride, and a feast (marriage supper).

At the Same Time...the Lamb is Opening the Book of SEALS, revealing the antiChrist on Earth. Giving the Anti-Christ Power to rule the world.

Revelations deals with every single person and Angel that has ever been created, in specific order and manner, some at the same time, SOME in the air, on Earth, IN the Earth, as well as deals with the Earth, oceans, land, mountains, stars, sun, moon, and Heaven.
As well ...God the Father, the Son Jesus the Word of God, son of man, the Lamb of God, Christ the Power of God.

Just sayin, if you are going to reference Revelations, know WHO the "all" are it is speaking of, or it can be very confusing.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Bobby Jo said:

ALL the DEAD have to wait until the end of the Millennial Kingdom to be raised, -- EXCEPT those who were martyred for refusing the mark of the beast. And to prove it, Rev. 20 says that ONLY the MARTYRED will Return with Jesus. So will the "church" be "raptured" and stay in "heaven" for eternity? -- That's not the account the liars give. They assert that the "church" will ascend, and then descend with Jesus.

Bobby Jo​

Where does it say the Raptured Church "goes" to Heaven? ...

EXACTLY. -- The "raptured church" DOESN'T go to "heaven" to wait a THOUSAND YEARS for the NEW JERUSALEM to arrive, neither does it RETURN with Jesus and the Martyred who refused the MARK.

The Rest of the DEAD are raised after the THOUSAND YEARS ARE ENDED, and then the raptured church ascends DIRECTLY to the New Jerusalem.

But LIARS would assert what the Scriptures refute.
Bobby Jo

 

[OzSpen]

Sorry Oz,
I did not see this response till now.
i was taught the dispensational premill system first and can still teach it, even though i do not believe it is true.
i looked at historic premill for a bit,
Then i thought i was amill, but eventually realized half of the views I was reading about were Postmill,lol

I am still a work in progress, but i am currently in between 1, and 2;

1] Postmillenial

2] Amillmillenial

3]Historic premillmillenial

4] Dispensational premillmillenial

My studies over the past few years are more concerned about the Kingdom as a present reality, and how to live in light of it.

Jesus is ruling now in the midst of his enemies, psalm 110.
He rules and reigns from the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem Heb12;22-29

because of studying the book of Hebrews particularly chapters 2:4-8 and 12:22-29.
I am forced to attempt to live here on earth as a postmillennial person.

If I am incorrect, I would not have any trouble with any of the views, because One is the truth of God , and I will be happy with whatever our Lord has determined to do .
For most of us our individual eschatology will take place before the last day.

Anthony,

I find it hard to believe you are considering any part of postmillennialism. That position considers the world will become increasingly better (in spite of the evidence we see today), with the entire world becoming Christianised. When that happens, Christ will return.

Oz

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 7:9-17
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

They are in God’s Temple that you claim is rebuilt in Jerusalem. Or Paradise you claim is not in Heaven. Where is this Temple of God?

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Anthony,

I find it hard to believe you are considering any part of postmillennialism. That position considers the world will become increasingly better (in spite of the evidence we see today), with the entire world becoming Christianised. When that happens, Christ will return.

Oz

When i was first taught the other systems, that was one of the objections i heard, and even used at one point.
Someone challenged me to just use the bible, and not the newspapers for an end time view.
Oz...what if we are the early church still?

psalm22;
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Psalm 110 King James Version (KJV)
110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion:
rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

There are enemies alive during the King's reign. He rules in the midst of them.