Waiting on him
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Conversation with Mary is like trying to nail jello to the wall, but I love her Spirit. She’d rather be right than happy
Proud Mary?
Has anyone changed their mind...?
- Thread starter Helen
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Proud Mary?
No.
I am aware of Jesus' teaching....
Matt 28
[16] Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
[17] And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, (the eleven disciples) saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Where IS John's Water Baptism mentioned?
More precisely, WHERE does Jesus Command John's WATER BAPTISM?
Why were the Disciples NOT Baptized IN WATER, when they Received Jesus' Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, ....
Does your Church teach a Baby's Water Baptism, IS A BABY Receiving the HOLY SPIRIT?
Can you answer these questions please?
Glory to God,
Taken
That is false. And nothing you have presented verifies your false claim.
Accuracy should be PARAMOUNT, when you proclaim you are AMAZED.
I have made myself EXPRESSLY CLEAR, I am "Converted IN Christ."
BTW ~ I would rather you reply with what supports your own beliefs, rather than simply Reply with Deflective unfounded accusations.
Since you obviously believe WATER BAPTISM is Necessary....
Why Avoid standing up for what you believe?
What DOES "John's WATER Baptism" DO for a man, that Jesus' Baptism DOES NOT DO?
WHERE in Scripture DID JESUS Command MEN TO BE BAPTIZED IN WATER?
Glory to God,
Taken
We all as believers can and should 'grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ' (2 Peter 3).
I just take it for granted that most Christians come to these sites either to persuade others that their view is correct or to find confirmation of what they already believe. That has not been my experience, however, on New Age sites. There I have seen 2 people abandon their New Age view and get gloriously saved, much to the consternation of the sponsors of those sites! One of the curses of the Fundamentalist mindset is the loss of openness to an honest and open spiritual quest.
The Christianity of our time lies in theories and beliefs...which are based on opinion. So that if someone comes with something from the Lord...it is assumed that that person is coming in the same theoretical and shallow way as they.
As the angel said...even if a man was raised from the dead they would not listen.
I'd say that Christianity is revealed in the statements of Scripture. In any time.
Much love!
Hi Berserk,
I'd wonder that it has less to do with "Fundamentalism", which to me means staying with the basic foundational truths, and instead what we see on these sites is much to do with pride and envy. Yes, persuade others, yes, obtain affirmation. But if we do what truth, it will find us.
I think we can have a "fundamentalist" mindset and still be humble and honest.
Much love!
mark
I was just wondering, as I see some of our threads here are 14 pages long x 20 posts a page...
Has coming to this forum, and reading other people's posts , thoughts, and argument ever changed your mind on what you perviously believed?
If we all come with a closed mind, what good do we do for each other?
I think in all the years that I have been here, I have only seen about two people mentioned that they have learned something from someone else!
I can say - I HAVE. There are about five brothers over the years ( some no long posting) but some still here, that I have learned from , and have caused me to 'pause'.
I do get blessed and challenged my some of the posters.
Thank you.
I may be changing my mind over who is considered among the dispersion of Israel. @Davy has been helping with that!
Much love!
mark
Marymog
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Thank you taken.
For you to say you are aware of Jesus teaching and then suggest water baptism was not practiced by Jesus or his apostles shows that you are not aware....
Baptism in the NT, and in 1st century AND 2nd century AND 3rd century historical writings/practices of Christians IS water baptism sooooo not sure what you mean by where is Johns water baptism mentioned or where does Jesus command Johns water baptism. Even the majority of your Protestant friends teach, preach and practice water baptism and have for 500 years. Are you suggesting you don't? Are you suggesting the people who walked and talked with the Apostles got water baptism wrong and YOU, 2,000 years later, got it right? Are you suggesting that even your great reformers whom you disagree with got it wrong and YOU got it right? They have a false teaching also?
Why do you believe the disciples were not baptized in water? How does one get baptized without water?
When one is baptized, as babies have been for 2,000 years, they receive the Holy Spirit.
Why do you accept the 500 year teaching of the Reformers and not the 2,000 year teaching of Christianity?
Curious Mary
Not only on this forum but on others previously I have experienced what you have. Some of what God has shown me in this respect has amazed me and I still cannot fully understand it. For this reason I seldom share much of it because it would seldom edify others and then again sometimes He simply doesn't give me the words to express it so that many or even any others could understand... Do you hear me on this?
Give God the glory!
Amen on this! To avoid eating from that wrong tree even for an avid Bible reader requires direction and assistance which God is more than willing to provide, but too many believers fail to make use of what He offers...
So long as your statement is a favorable one I give you a definite "like"!With this said, I've change my mind about Helen. How's that for changing one's mind?
Naomi25
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I was just wondering, as I see some of our threads here are 14 pages long x 20 posts a page...
Has coming to this forum, and reading other people's posts , thoughts, and argument ever changed your mind on what you perviously believed?
If we all come with a closed mind, what good do we do for each other?
I think in all the years that I have been here, I have only seen about two people mentioned that they have learned something from someone else!
I can say - I HAVE. There are about five brothers over the years ( some no long posting) but some still here, that I have learned from , and have caused me to 'pause'.
I do get blessed and challenged my some of the posters.
Thank you.
Wow...what a tough question! I think I have to say no. I have had my mind changed over the course of my Christian walk, some amazing moments where I feel God has just led me to new understanding of his word. So...I'm not opposed to learning new things...I just want to be convinced, biblically, before I go there!
I think what I have learned on this site...what has changed for me, is how I converse...I've fallen into a couple of patterns...some better, some probably not and need work. As someone mentioned previously...coming to a Christian Forum starry eyed and hoping for incredible sharing fellowship can sometimes be a downer. Yes, you can find some of that...but then you find those you don't get, who are mean, who don't seem to see the bible at all accurately! It's like a jungle!
I love theology...just love talking about it. And...that's not so much because I'm a stickler for it, but because I've found the more I learn about my God, the more I love him...he's astounding! But...talking about theology in a place where different theologies abound is problematic. So...I've tried to be fairly factual about it all...this is what the text says, this is what it doesn't say. This doctrine is sound, this one isn't.
It can be hard to try and leave 'personal' things out of it...as hard as you try to just point towards doctrinal understandings, you're still talking to people, and it's our faith...to a point it's always going to be personal. And somedays I just suck at it. Some weeks. Sometimes I look back and think "man, I had a real snarky week last week". But as I've reflected upon it, I've found that I tend to...whether rightly or wrongly....respond in kind. If people are aggressive and dismissive of me, I tend to turn up the sarcasm. If people are friendly, so am I, regardless of our differences. Perhaps one day I'll get to a point where I can leave the sarcasm behind...but at this point I'm still wondering if I want to....sarcasm can be fun at times!
So...while I don't think anyone here has changed my mind, I suppose I can say that plenty of them have had me scurrying for my reference books because I just didn't know. Sitting down with my bible and a few good commentaries on a subject is my happy place, so I think I could thank a few...if only I could remember who they were!
I have an associated question. If we come to a forum, or any Bible study group, and expect that before we would change our mind on any subject we must demand a "thus sayeth the Lord" in support, does that not presuppose that such a thing is possible? That our current beliefs may not be supported Biblically, and if a sufficiently knowledgeable person can convince me of a truth with which I am not familiar, or that is contrary to where I now stand, I am open to change? So if we can ask such a thing, does this mean that we are not sure right now whether our current beliefs are in fact Biblical? How many of us have come to the Lord and openly, honestly, and with a hunger and passion for truth, pleaded with God for fresh learning experience of Him, and from Him?
How many of us have blindly (or perhaps with squinted eyes) joined a church and meekly taken aboard the current beliefs of said church, without thoroughly examining scripture to make sure that what the preachers and teachers were talking about, were actually found there? How many young newly born again Christians join the first church down the street that sounds exciting, has the right "music", speaks his "language", and is "cool", and unquestioningly accepts everything they are told? How many of us have actually sat back and asked ourselves of our own church, is that right? I suspect there are many who have been so enmeshed in their church's teachings, they wouldn't dare consider any other teaching for fear they are going to go to hell because they are already convinced everyone else is a heretic and only their church is filled with the "Holy Spirit" and has the "truth".
How many of us have blindly (or perhaps with squinted eyes) joined a church and meekly taken aboard the current beliefs of said church, without thoroughly examining scripture to make sure that what the preachers and teachers were talking about, were actually found there? How many young newly born again Christians join the first church down the street that sounds exciting, has the right "music", speaks his "language", and is "cool", and unquestioningly accepts everything they are told? How many of us have actually sat back and asked ourselves of our own church, is that right? I suspect there are many who have been so enmeshed in their church's teachings, they wouldn't dare consider any other teaching for fear they are going to go to hell because they are already convinced everyone else is a heretic and only their church is filled with the "Holy Spirit" and has the "truth".
That is False.
Where Does Scripture Teach the Apostles were Baptized "WITH WATER" ?
Or where did the Apostles BAPTIZE WITH WATER?
Here is your opportunity to Reveal the Scriptures; That ANY/ALL OF THE APOSTLES
Were Baptized with WATER?????
Historical writings?
Practices?
Can you show those things IN SCRIPTURE?
Soooooo, the point being;
If those things WERE NOT TAUGHT "IN SCRIPTURE" BY JESUS TO DO ....
And you simply say, that is WHAT MEN TAUGHT TO DO....
You are TEACHING What MEN have taught TO DO, is more IMPORTANT than what JESUS TAUGHT TO DO.
And ....?
Was that something THEY had LEARNED from Catholics or Scripture?
I was suggesting....and NOW ASKING YOU STRAIGHT OUT...
Where "IN SCRIPTURE" DID JESUS TEACH ...
1) His Apostles to BE Baptised IN WATER?
2) To Baptize others IN WATER?
Because Scripture does not TEACH they WERE Baptized in Water.
Instead of telling me of Catholic PRACTICES and historical TRADITIONS....
Why not SHOW IN SCRIPTURE, that WATER BAPTISM was JESUS" TEACHING....the APOSTLES TEACHING?
Romans 10:13
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:9
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Eph 1
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit
Hear the Word of God
Trust the Word of God
Believe the Word of God
Call on the Name of the Lord
Confess your Heardtfelt Belief
RECEIVE the the Baptism of the Spirit Of God
ACCEPT you are SEALED unto the Lord.
Glory to God,
Taken
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Marymog said:
You are speaking of WATER BAPTISM of babies.
No they do not.
The BABIES have NOT, heard, believed, trusted, or CONFESSED anything.
BY TRADITION....
The Parents scheduled a WATER BAPTISM.
BY TRADITION....
The Cleric Baptizes the Baby with WATER.
BY TRADITION....
The BABY is utterly UNAWARE of what is happening.
BY TRADITION...
The BABY is "inducted" as a MEMBER of that particular Church. (Teachings, Practices, Traditions).
BY TRADITION...
The PARENTS are "agreeing" to RAISE that BABY according to that CHURCHES TEACHINGS.
BY TRADITION...
THAT BABY, can grow, age, and hear and learn of THAT Churches TEACHINGS, and BELIEVE THEM or NOT.
BY TRADITION....
THAT BABY, can grow, age and CALL THEMSELVES by WHATEVER that Churches Members, call themselves or NOT.
I accept Scriptural teaching,
THAT;
Saving of the soul, is effected BY the Lord.
THAT;
Quickening of the spirit, is effected BY the Lord
THAT;
The Saving and Quickening "IS" effected BY the Lord.....
WHEN (BEFORE the individuals FLESH DEATH)
the "INDIVIDUALS" HEART
BELIEVES IN THEE Lord God.
DO TELL....HOW EXACTLY DOES A Priest, A Parent.......
KNOW THE THOUGHTS OF A BABY'S BELIEF IN THEIR HEART ??
(FOR A CHURCH TO "PROCLAIM" A BABY BAPTIZED WITH WATER, HAS RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT?)
Curious .... and waiting for your answer.
Glory to God,
Taken
You are speaking of WATER BAPTISM of babies.
No they do not.
The BABIES have NOT, heard, believed, trusted, or CONFESSED anything.
BY TRADITION....
The Parents scheduled a WATER BAPTISM.
BY TRADITION....
The Cleric Baptizes the Baby with WATER.
BY TRADITION....
The BABY is utterly UNAWARE of what is happening.
BY TRADITION...
The BABY is "inducted" as a MEMBER of that particular Church. (Teachings, Practices, Traditions).
BY TRADITION...
The PARENTS are "agreeing" to RAISE that BABY according to that CHURCHES TEACHINGS.
BY TRADITION...
THAT BABY, can grow, age, and hear and learn of THAT Churches TEACHINGS, and BELIEVE THEM or NOT.
BY TRADITION....
THAT BABY, can grow, age and CALL THEMSELVES by WHATEVER that Churches Members, call themselves or NOT.
I accept Scriptural teaching,
THAT;
Saving of the soul, is effected BY the Lord.
THAT;
Quickening of the spirit, is effected BY the Lord
THAT;
The Saving and Quickening "IS" effected BY the Lord.....
WHEN (BEFORE the individuals FLESH DEATH)
the "INDIVIDUALS" HEART
BELIEVES IN THEE Lord God.
DO TELL....HOW EXACTLY DOES A Priest, A Parent.......
KNOW THE THOUGHTS OF A BABY'S BELIEF IN THEIR HEART ??
(FOR A CHURCH TO "PROCLAIM" A BABY BAPTIZED WITH WATER, HAS RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT?)
Curious .... and waiting for your answer.
Glory to God,
Taken
LOL, indeed! Over the years I can recall by name a few of the few, but so often I cannot remember their names. It would not be wrong would it to simply give God the glory for working through some surrendered vessel to accomplish His purpose in me! If some man is also deserving of a reward, will not God know it even though our memories are faulty?
Solomon wrote of it here:
"Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." Prov 3:7
And here:
"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2
But then for me this comes back to this parable of Jesus:
"And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them,
When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:7-11
This is where we should, as I see it, go every day... to "the lowest room" as if we had nothing at all from all of our time with the Lord be it 5 minutes or 5 months or 50 years.
When we start again at the bottom [the lowest room] as if we knew nothing at all and had nothing at all, will not God then reinstate in us anything we previously had that was worth having?
Marymog
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Thank you Taken.
I guess I have miss-understood what you have said. Now I am not sure what you believe.
I don't recall ever saying that scripture said that the Apostles were baptized with water soooo not sure were you are going with that line of questioning....
Scripture makes it clear that water was used to baptize. The historical writings of your Christian brothers who walked and talked with the Apostles show that they practiced water baptism and HOW they practiced it. If you are ignorant of those writings then I suggest you start reading them.
I find it fascinating that you hold up the writings of the Reformers as being accurate, believable, holding more weight or being more valuable than the writings of the 1st and 2nd century Christians who walked and talked with the Apostles. How do you explain that?
I don't understand why you don't want me to tell you Catholic PRACTICES and historical TRADITIONS but you have consistently articulated you Protestant practices and historical traditions. Does that make you a hypocrite or is there another word for it?
Here is the bottom line.....I know there is nothing I can say that will help you see the Truth and the errors of your ways.
I accept scripture for what it says: Water baptism is clearly articulated in the NT and it washes away sin.
I accept what the 1st, 2nd, 3rd Century Christians practiced/believed which is revealed thru historical writings.
You accept what the 16th century Reformers practiced/believed and follow their historical writings.
Good luck with your belief......Mary
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