Has anyone changed their mind...?

[Marymog]

Mary, do you own a Bible? Well just pick up and read it and ask God to show you the truth!

Don't make excuses about man vs man etc.

Yes, I own two AND every Sunday we read from three different books of Scripture AND Psalms.

Why do I need to ask God to show me the truth when it is clear you already know it?

There are people on this forum that have the same mentality as you; just pick up and read it and ask God to show you the truth! They have done that and they disagree with you on Scripture. How can that be Enoch? You both picked up the same book and God showed both of you the truth but yet both of your truths are different?

Is God confused or are you and that other person confused?

Furthermore, for you to suggest the men of the CC or Baptist or Methodist or Lutheran or Joes bible believing church anywhere USA didn't "pick it up and read it" and they didn't "ask God" to show them the truth is ludicrous. Your theory is not biblical.

Thank you for sharing your opinion though....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Are you unaware of Scripture speaking of TWO completely different BAPTISMS ?

Did you NOT comprehend my post # 178 spoke SPECIFICALLY of the TWO DIFFERENT Baptisms?

Try reading my post # 178 and see if it is not is CLEAR Language pertaining to each Specific Baptism...

Then read your Post # 181 of your comment so SOME "UNSPECIFIED" Baptism.

And again; THe Question you Omitted answering...

WHAT IS REQUIRED for a person to BECOME a Catholic?

Glory to God,
Taken

This discussion is about water baptism. If you want to throw any other baptism into this conversation I'm not taking the bait or I'm not following that rabbit trail as they say. Stay focused Taken...Baptism by Water is the discussion.

Baptism is a Sacrament of the Catholic Church. To become a Catholic one must be baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit....But you already know that sooooo I don't know why you asked.

To become a Christian one MUST be baptized just like Jesus commanded: Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Soooo that is what the Apostles did and that is what we still do 2,000 years later. Baptize, in water, people of all nations.

Were you baptized Taken?

baptizing
βαπτίζοντες (baptizontes)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 907: Lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.

 

[marks]

How can one be part of the body if they are not baptized into one body?

That's a great way to say it!

Baptized into one body.

One baptism . . . Into Jesus.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Taken]

This discussion is about water baptism. If you want to throw any other baptism into this conversation I'm not taking the bait or I'm not following that rabbit trail as they say. Stay focused Taken...Baptism by Water is the discussion.

Stay Focused? LOL
My Post # 178 specifically mentioned WATER BAPTISM no less thant 7 Times!

I also said:

Water Baptism is a scheduled event.
It allows that person to become a member of that Church.

You responded; Post # 181

Baptism isn't for becoming a member of that particular church......That is complete and utter nonsense and is NOT based on Scripture.

Now you respond A PERSON MUST BE BAPTIZED WITH WATER TO BECOME A CATHOLIC!

Baptism is a Sacrament of the Catholic Church. To become a Catholic one must be baptized with water ...

AND...does that WATER BAPTISM make them a member of the Catholic Church?

Apostles did and that is what we still do 2,000 years later. Baptize, in water, people of all nations.

Where is that reference for the Apostles to Baptize WITH WATER?

Were you baptized Taken?

Which Baptism? John's or the Holy Spirits?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

Water Baptism is a scheduled event.
It allows that person to become a member of that Church.

While this is a common practice, it is not the primary reason for Christian baptism, and may even be a misuse of baptism.

Christian baptism proclaims that the one being baptized is fully identified with Christ -- "in Christ" -- and has already been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Marymog]

That's a great way to say it!

Baptized into one body.

One baptism . . . Into Jesus.

Much love!
Mark

I agree....
baptizó: to dip, sink
Original Word: βαπτίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: baptizó
Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tid'-zo)
Definition: to dip, sink
Usage: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.

 

[Marymog]

Stay Focused? LOL
My Post # 178 specifically mentioned WATER BAPTISM no less thant 7 Times!

I also said:

Water Baptism is a scheduled event.
It allows that person to become a member of that Church.

You responded; Post # 181



Now you respond A PERSON MUST BE BAPTIZED WITH WATER TO BECOME A CATHOLIC!



AND...does that WATER BAPTISM make them a member of the Catholic Church?



Where is that reference for the Apostles to Baptize WITH WATER?



Which Baptism? John's or the Holy Spirits?

Glory to God,
Taken

Nope....not a member of "that Church". Belief in Jesus first and then baptized into THE CHURCH.

You know THE CHURCH...The one that Jesus started....upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH....not that church or the other church down the block or across the ocean. HIS CHURCH....ONE CHURCH. His one body.

Yes, water baptism makes the person a member of the CC church which is a Christian Church just like many other churches.

Johns baptism didn't wash away sin. Baptism in the name of Father Son and Holy Spirit did/does.

Mary

 

[Hidden In Him]

I was just wondering, as I see some of our threads here are 14 pages long x 20 posts a page...
Has coming to this forum, and reading other people's posts , thoughts, and argument ever changed your mind on what you perviously believed?

If we all come with a closed mind, what good do we do for each other?

I think in all the years that I have been here, I have only seen about two people mentioned that they have learned something from someone else!

I can say - I HAVE. There are about five brothers over the years ( some no long posting) but some still here, that I have learned from , and have caused me to 'pause'.
I do get blessed and challenged my some of the posters.
Thank you.

The water baptism pet debate notwithstanding, this is an excellent thread, Helen. For future reference, try to police them a little better. I'm learning to as well.

But in response, I've learned a few things. I recall @Pilgrimer posted something one time on the observance of December 25th not being directly related to or based on Saturnalia that I thought was brilliant, and I told her so. @Enoch111 posted something once that was exceptionally good proving through scripture comparison how James and Paul preached essentially the same message, and more recently @BARNEY BRIGHT shared something great on my thread discussing the elementary principles of the world. @1stCenturyLady shared something outstanding on the Epistle of Barnabas not long ago, and @Episkopos can sometimes have decent insights on spiritualizations.

I'm sure there have been a few others... Oh, there's a brother at Worthy who's helpful regarding Greek studies...

But here is what I think is going on: Nearly everyone who joins the forums and doesn't get run off almost immediately is either someone with a high degree of metal or someone who has joined feeling they have a message to share. Even Brakelite suggests that's what he's here for, though he wisely adds that he only hopes to maybe make people think a little here and there. But most people posting on the forums are already very firmly set on what they believe coming in.

On many subjects, I actually learn from what people don't say. I like posting threads to see how well people can explain various passages of scripture, and then test their answers to see what holds up under scrutiny. When people stop responding altogether it can reveal weaknesses in their position and in their theology (though this cannot always be assumed). Of course, there are those who evade like a rabbit running from a pack of wolves, LoL, who just repeat themselves to make it sound like they have a response. But you can gauge the strength of other people's theology by asking pointed questions and forcing them to stay on point. That said, you often get better answers by going online to search for authoritative sources on a particular viewpoint than by hoping to get the best responses on forums.

One thing I learn on a regular basis is what the general consensus is on various issues: Hell, salvation, prophecy especially, which along with watching TV and Youtube and listening to radio helps me gauge exactly where the church is in general on things.

As far as my hopes are concerned, utterances of the Spirit (dreams, visions, prophecies) are normally the only sources I truly learn much from anyway aside from posts with substantial scholarship behind them, which are rare, so hopefully there will come a day when more of that is posted on ChristianityBoard.

All things are possible with God : )

 

[Marymog]

Who said anything about my comment being based in Scripture? I didn't.

I was specifically speaking of a man-made Church and man-man rules...of HOW a person BECOMES a MEMBER of a Protestant Church.

Doesn't really matter if you agree or not.

You can do your own research of Protestant Churches and FIND the answer of what is required to become a Church MEMBER.

I know you are Catholic, so what is your requirement to become a Member of a Catholic Church...announce you were born Catholic?

Glory to God,
Taken

Hi Taken.

I need to clarify something. You asked what is the requirement to become a member of a Catholic Church. I did not answer that question completely/correctly.

If the person wishes to become Catholic and they have never received the Trinitarian baptism then they are baptized.

If they have already been given the Trinitarian baptizem by another church then there is no need to be baptized again to become a member of the CC since baptism doesn’t make you a member of a church....It makes you a baptized Christian.

Hope that clarifies what scripture and the CC teaches.

Mary

 

[Taken]

Marymog Post # 181
Baptism isn't for becoming a member of that particular church......That is complete and utter nonsense and is NOT based on Scripture. Mary

Marymog Post # 208
Yes, water baptism makes the person a member of the CC church which is a Christian Church just like many other churches.
Mary

Point being...

Thought you were incorrect in post # 181.
Think you are contradictory between your posts # 181 and # 208.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken.

I need to clarify something. You asked what is the requirement to become a member of a Catholic Church. I did not answer that question completely/correctly.

If the person wishes to become Catholic and they have never received the Trinitarian baptism then they are baptized.

If they have already been given the Trinitarian baptizem by another church then there is no need to be baptized again to become a member of the CC since baptism doesn’t make you a member of a church....It makes you a baptized Christian.

Hope that clarifies what scripture and the CC teaches.

Mary

Scripture teaches TWO Baptisms.

1) John's Baptism with WATER.
...This was NOT a Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
...This was a Baptism with Water, FOR:
........Remission of Sins.
Matt 3:6 ~ Matt 3:11 ~ Acts 19:4

Priests routinely WASHED with Water, as a means of PURIFICATION.

John instituted the WASHING to the JEWS...
THE PEOPLE....beyond it being ONLY for the Priests.

John was A Baptizer of People...(not Priests);
A Forerunner....for the Baptizer of People...
OF Jesus; The Baptizer of the Holy Spirit.

John BAPTISED "People", WHO "THEMSELVES" Chose TO Receive "REMISSION of SINS".

2) Baptism of Jesus Christ, is Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus' Baptism HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER.

Jesus' Baptism is for "all" People, INCLUDING "Clerics".

Jesus' Baptism "ALSO" requires a Person of Reasoning Capability, For "THEMSELVES" To "CHOOSE" To Receive "Jesus" Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.

In MOST protestant Churches...
Typically Nearing the Ending of a Church Service....
The Preacher "INVITES" ANYONE who "CHOOSES" To Call on the Lord, Confess their Belief in God, in Christ Jesus....
TO: Come forward to the ALTER, TO MAKE their Confession, Before the Witnesses of the Congregation.

The INDIVIDUALS "THEMSELVES" make their OWN Choices to ACCEPT the "Invitation"...
or not.

The "individuals themselves", who ACCEPT the invitation...Are "AT THAT TIME", making "THEIR" Confession...
"AND"
"AT THAT TIME", Receiving Jesus' BAPTISM of the HOLY SPIRIT.

"IF" that individual "ALSO" chooses to BECOME a "MEMBER" of "THAT" Church, they can "SCHEDULE" a "WATER BAPTISM", with THAT Cleric.

"IF" that individual CHOOSES to become a MEMBER of "THAT" Church......
"AND LATER Chooses TO BE a MEMBER of ANOTHER CHURCH"...

"Their MEMBERSHIP" is "Transferred" VIA...
The Churches DOCUMENTED RECORD that is "TRANSFERRED"
Which IS:
The RECORDED "CERTIFIED" DATE" of
.............WATER BAPTISM.............and
Is Forwarded (BY LETTER) from ONE Church, to the OTHER Church.

The "OTHER" Christian Church, will ACCEPT the Certified Documentation...whether it is a Protestant Church or Catholic Church.

And thereafter, that Individual WILL be a Certified Member of the Other Church, and NO LONGER a Member of the Original Church.

Churches have their own gobblygook RULES about INFANT WATER BAPTISM.

And "individual" persons who ARE Protestant or Catholic, have their OWN MIX of "understanding" INFANT WATER BAPTISM...

And the "RANGE" of understanding is as "WIDE" and "BROAD" as the Atlantic Ocean!

And the FACT IS.....Scripturally...
John's Water Baptism;
And;
Jesus' Holy Spirit Baptism;

EACH Hinges on the INDIVIDUAL making the CHOICE "HIMSELF" to receive A Baptism.

And Never have I heard of a case of AN INFANT making a DECLARATION of CHOOSING to be BAPTIZED....
With Water, With the Holy Spirit,
OR
CHOOSING "himself" to JOIN "any" Church.

So, as I said, (and you called nonsense and then contradicted yourself)...
Water Baptism's are instituted for becoming a member of a Church.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

While this is a common practice, it is not the primary reason for Christian baptism, and may even be a misuse of baptism.

Christian baptism proclaims that the one being baptized is fully identified with Christ -- "in Christ" -- and has already been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

The Term "BAPTISM", imo is WIDELY misunderstood.
Scripture was clear;
John's Baptism was with water.
...John's Baptism DID not SAVE People.
...John's Baptism WAS visible.
Jesus' Baptism is with the Holy Spirit.
...Jesus' Baptism DOES SAVE People.
...Jesus' Baptism IS invisible.

Each required the Individual to choose to be Baptized.

For one to say, they were WATER Baptized, is simply an indication of their Belief.

For one to say, they were Baptized with the Holy Spirit, is without question, a declaration of their Belief in Jesus Christ.

Jewish Priests were washing, called purifying, before entering the Temple.

John (the forerunner), began Washing, called baptizing "THE willing PEOPLE", for remission of sins.

NEITHER ^ of those things, were the Priests or the People having Consideration of Belief IN Jesus the Christ.

However TODAY, it appears the Majority of Christians are taught, accept, Water Baptism as the PRIMARY Baptism, for declaration of having received Jesus' Baptism.


Also the Term "CHRISTIAN", imo is WIDELY misunderstood.
Scripture was clear;
Followers of Jesus' Teachings were called "Christians."
Men Saved and Born Again IN Christ Jesus' were called "Converted."

Today ther TERM Christian, is IMPLIED...
AS IF", it is a Declaration of HAVING received a "Conversion"....when THAT IS FALSE.

Many people, hear, read, learn, follow Jesus' teachings....attend Christian Churches....Called themselves Christians...are Called Christians.....AND HAVE NOT BeCOME Converted.

People should be Specific and say what they mean, and mean what they say.

Scripture is clear...Baptism of the Holy Spirit leaves no doubt, when one declares they are Converted in Christ.

Someone who simply declares they are a Christian, or they have been Baptized....
to me, is Vague, and I don't impress much meaning to their vague declaration.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

...Jesus' Baptism IS invisible.

You are now confusing the baptism with the Holy Spirit (invisible) with Christian baptism by immersion (very visible and public). Those who are baptized as believers have already received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and that is why they testify to their full identification with Christ in death, burial, and resurrection, and that they will live in the power of the Spirit (walking in newness of life).

Too many evangelical and fundamental churches have failed to teach the meaning of Christian baptism properly, and too many believe that baptism is a means of obtaining membership in a local church. But that is secondary.

 

[Helen]

The water baptism pet debate notwithstanding, this is an excellent thread, Helen. For future reference, try to police them a little better. I'm learning to as well.

But in response, I've learned a few things. I recall @Pilgrimer posted something one time on the observance of December 25th not being directly related to or based on Saturnalia that I thought was brilliant, and I told her so. @Enoch111 posted something once that was exceptionally good proving through scripture comparison how James and Paul preached essentially the same message, and more recently @BARNEY BRIGHT shared something great on my thread discussing the elementary principles of the world. @1stCenturyLady shared something outstanding on the Epistle of Barnabas not long ago, and @Episkopos can sometimes have decent insights on spiritualizations.

I'm sure there have been a few others... Oh, there's a brother at Worthy who's helpful regarding Greek studies...

But here is what I think is going on: Nearly everyone who joins the forums and doesn't get run off almost immediately is either someone with a high degree of metal or someone who has joined feeling they have a message to share. Even Brakelite suggests that's what he's here for, though he wisely adds that he only hopes to maybe make people think a little here and there. But most people posting on the forums are already very firmly set on what they believe coming in.

On many subjects, I actually learn from what people don't say. I like posting threads to see how well people can explain various passages of scripture, and then test their answers to see what holds up under scrutiny. When people stop responding altogether it can reveal weaknesses in their position and in their theology (though this cannot always be assumed). Of course, there are those who evade like a rabbit running from a pack of wolves, LoL, who just repeat themselves to make it sound like they have a response. But you can gauge the strength of other people's theology by asking pointed questions and forcing them to stay on point. That said, you often get better answers by going online to search for authoritative sources on a particular viewpoint than by hoping to get the best responses on forums.

One thing I learn on a regular basis is what the general consensus is on various issues: Hell, salvation, prophecy especially, which along with watching TV and Youtube and listening to radio helps me gauge exactly where the church is in general on things.

As far as my hopes are concerned, utterances of the Spirit (dreams, visions, prophecies) are normally the only sources I truly learn much from anyway aside from posts with substantial scholarship behind them, which are rare, so hopefully there will come a day when more of that is posted on ChristianityBoard.

All things are possible with God

Thank you..lovely post and informative.
How does a person 'police' a thread or even stop them highjacking it by there pet subject ? (as with the water baptism thing..that seems to pop up so regularly, same questions, never satisfied with any answers. )

One guy on here, seem to always call attention to what the belief system or denomination of everyone is..and off it goes down that trail. I've not seen a thread-starter ever say to him yet, " just stop butting in, we know anyway, most of us have been here longer and know where everyone stand. All are accepted and ALLOWED. " So his 'pet' beef is always about what someone believes, rather than the topic at hand.
So how is 'policing' done

I am one you must have notched up as quote -"When people stop responding altogether it can reveal weaknesses in their position and in their theology (though this cannot always be assumed). "

Yep that is me. I usually state my case once, even twice, but if they keep insisting and arguing the same point, I shut down. I just wont respond any more. Neither do I respond when the post response is a put down.

I hate the posts which go round and round, neither will change positions so why continue the agony? It bores me. Maybe it is a sign of weakness. Ha! So be it.
I used to say to my kids, "Listen to me because I wont repeat myself, once is enough.."
The endless repetitive arguing over and over the same points said every which way from Sunday are so boring. With those threads, you can come in three pages later and its still the same dogmatic argument!!
Im sure that is fun for some, I'm just not made that way.

I agree, I have learned some good thing from some people..seen hidden types and truths which I hadn't seen or heard like that before. It makes my day.
When I come here I come expecting to hear my Masters voice through someone, some days I am blessed, more often than not saddened. But this Site didn't always used to be like this, with more arguing going on than edification.

That said...I do still feel it is the best site out there, and I have tried a good few over the years.

Thanks for your response...blessings...H

 

[Helen]

The water baptism pet debate notwithstanding, this is an excellent thread, Helen. For future reference, try to police them a little better. I'm learning to as well.
<snip>

Oh, and another thought...
Talking of "Policing" how come you didn't 'police' your thread "Witch Hunt Exposed". ????
It could have done with it. You could have policed a few of us there?????

Or is that where you say " I am learning" was that where you learned?

Bless you and take care Chris...have a great day in the Lord.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thank you..lovely post and informative.
How does a person 'police' a thread or even stop them highjacking it by there pet subject ? (as with the water baptism thing..that seems to pop up so regularly, same questions, never satisfied with any answers. )

One guy on here, seem to always call attention to what the belief system or denomination of everyone is..and off it goes down that trail. I've not seen a thread-starter ever say to him yet, " just stop butting in, we know anyway, most of us have been here longer and know where everyone stand. All are accepted and ALLOWED. " So his 'pet' beef is always about what someone believes, rather than the topic at hand.
So how is 'policing' done

Well, if you politely but clearly state in the OP that you want the focus of the thread to remain on such and such, you can then redirect anyone who starts trying to highjack it in different direction back to the terms set in the opening post. Tell them if they want to discuss their redirect then to start their own thread on it.

You may have to repeat this with the stubborn ones a few times, LoL, but I find most will honor your request. Sometimes you have to address two or more at the same time who won't leave each other alone.

If they still won't listen you'd have to threaten to report someone, but I don't think it would come to that.... hopefully...

I am one you must have notched up as quote -"When people stop responding altogether it can reveal weaknesses in their position and in their theology (though this cannot always be assumed). "

Yep that is me. I usually state my case once, even twice, but if they keep insisting and arguing the same point, I shut down. I just wont respond any more. Neither do I respond when the post response is a put down.

No. Actually with you, because you don't always respond much anyway, it doesn't reveal much of anything about you, LoL. I'm talking more about people who normally won't stop responding if you pay them. If someone who has an answer for everything and never let's a post go unanswered suddenly doesn't answer, that often means something.

I hate the posts which go round and round, neither will change positions so why continue the agony? It bores me. Maybe it is a sign of weakness. Ha! So be it.
I used to say to my kids, "Listen to me because I wont repeat myself, once is enough.."
The endless repetitive arguing over and over the same points said every which way from Sunday are so boring. With those threads, you can come in three pages later and its still the same dogmatic argument!!
Im sure that is fun for some, I'm just not made that way.

Maybe some do it for attention. With highjackers, I've sometimes gotten the impression that if a thread is interesting and gaining attention, they want that attention redirected to them.

But this thread has made me think, to tell you the truth. I'm starting to wonder if time wouldn't be best spent simply responding to those who appear as if they might be receptive, and just focus on that. With extended debates I think the only real benefit there would be if you are trying to find out the strength of your own position, but most people who go round and round aren't doing that. They're trying to win an argument; an argument they've been involved in dozens of times already in the past, LOL.

I agree, I have learned some good thing from some people..seen hidden types and truths which I hadn't seen or heard like that before. It makes my day.
When I come here I come expecting to hear my Masters voice through someone, some days I am blessed, more often than not saddened. But this Site didn't always used to be like this, with more arguing going on than edification.

In some ways (not many, but), it is healthier to have a place to go to where people are actually discussing doctrines, because in most churches today there's not really a lot of discussion going on. Quite a long time ago, church became little more than sitting in a church pew and listening to what was being preached, with little to no interaction between anyone on what things mean and if particular interpretations are correct. I don't think that's how the NT churches operated. They were clearly asking questions, and discussing matters. It's just that the argumentativeness and the strife is what's so counterproductive.

Oh, and another thought...
Talking of "Policing" how come you didn't 'police' your thread "Witch Hunt Exposed". ????
It could have done with it. You could have policed a few of us there?????

Or is that where you say " I am learning" was that where you learned?

Actually, with that thread I didn't really care all that much, LoL. It's the deeply theological threads where I want people to focus on the point at hand.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No. But after 58 years of study and participation for many years and debates why would you expect me to change a belief easily?

Put another way, I have yet to see anything I haven't seen before.

Therein lies the problem, I've highlighted the "@CoreIssue."

 

[Marymog]

Scripture teaches TWO Baptisms.

1) John's Baptism with WATER.
...This was NOT a Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
...This was a Baptism with Water, FOR:
........Remission of Sins.
Matt 3:6 ~ Matt 3:11 ~ Acts 19:4

Priests routinely WASHED with Water, as a means of PURIFICATION.

John instituted the WASHING to the JEWS...
THE PEOPLE....beyond it being ONLY for the Priests.

John was A Baptizer of People...(not Priests);
A Forerunner....for the Baptizer of People...
OF Jesus; The Baptizer of the Holy Spirit.

John BAPTISED "People", WHO "THEMSELVES" Chose TO Receive "REMISSION of SINS".

2) Baptism of Jesus Christ, is Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus' Baptism HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WATER.

Jesus' Baptism is for "all" People, INCLUDING "Clerics".

Jesus' Baptism "ALSO" requires a Person of Reasoning Capability, For "THEMSELVES" To "CHOOSE" To Receive "Jesus" Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.

In MOST protestant Churches...
Typically Nearing the Ending of a Church Service....
The Preacher "INVITES" ANYONE who "CHOOSES" To Call on the Lord, Confess their Belief in God, in Christ Jesus....
TO: Come forward to the ALTER, TO MAKE their Confession, Before the Witnesses of the Congregation.

The INDIVIDUALS "THEMSELVES" make their OWN Choices to ACCEPT the "Invitation"...
or not.

The "individuals themselves", who ACCEPT the invitation...Are "AT THAT TIME", making "THEIR" Confession...
"AND"
"AT THAT TIME", Receiving Jesus' BAPTISM of the HOLY SPIRIT.

"IF" that individual "ALSO" chooses to BECOME a "MEMBER" of "THAT" Church, they can "SCHEDULE" a "WATER BAPTISM", with THAT Cleric.

"IF" that individual CHOOSES to become a MEMBER of "THAT" Church......
"AND LATER Chooses TO BE a MEMBER of ANOTHER CHURCH"...

"Their MEMBERSHIP" is "Transferred" VIA...
The Churches DOCUMENTED RECORD that is "TRANSFERRED"
Which IS:
The RECORDED "CERTIFIED" DATE" of
.............WATER BAPTISM.............and
Is Forwarded (BY LETTER) from ONE Church, to the OTHER Church.

The "OTHER" Christian Church, will ACCEPT the Certified Documentation...whether it is a Protestant Church or Catholic Church.

And thereafter, that Individual WILL be a Certified Member of the Other Church, and NO LONGER a Member of the Original Church.

Churches have their own gobblygook RULES about INFANT WATER BAPTISM.

And "individual" persons who ARE Protestant or Catholic, have their OWN MIX of "understanding" INFANT WATER BAPTISM...

And the "RANGE" of understanding is as "WIDE" and "BROAD" as the Atlantic Ocean!

And the FACT IS.....Scripturally...
John's Water Baptism;
And;
Jesus' Holy Spirit Baptism;

EACH Hinges on the INDIVIDUAL making the CHOICE "HIMSELF" to receive A Baptism.

And Never have I heard of a case of AN INFANT making a DECLARATION of CHOOSING to be BAPTIZED....
With Water, With the Holy Spirit,
OR
CHOOSING "himself" to JOIN "any" Church.

So, as I said, (and you called nonsense and then contradicted yourself)...
Water Baptism's are instituted for becoming a member of a Church.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thank you taken.

Matt 3:6 says that they confessed their sins and were baptized. It was NOT a baptism for the remission of sins as you believe. Who taught you this?

Matt 3:11 says I baptize you with water for repentance.....He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Johns baptism was along with repentance. The Trinitarian baptism washes away sin; just like scripture says. Jesus baptism, taught by the Apostles, was CLEARLY different then Johns.

Acts 19:4 makes it VERY CLEAR that Johns water baptism was different then the Trinitarian baptism. It was not valid that is why they had to get RE-BAPTIZED 19:5 which you conveniently left out.

Johns baptism DOES NOT equal a Trinitarian Baptism. It is not the same. Scripture teaches ONE BAPTISM in the New Covenant: the Trinitarian baptism.

Scripture (Acts 8, Acts 10, 1 Peter 3, Acts 22) and Christian historical writings make it clear that Jesus baptism did have to do with water. The baptism of John did not confer grace, but only prepared the way for grace.

You should run away from whoever taught you that it didn't have to do with water. They are lying to you.

Thank you for your time.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

My reply is still the same. Don't you want to discover an answer for yourself, rather than have a bunch of people tell you their prejudices?

I guess your not taking my deal: You answer my ONE question and I will answer TWO of yours???

How about if you tell me your prejudice on the issue and maybe, just maybe your case/evidence will be so strong that I can't deny it and I will agree with you?

Patient Mary

 

[marks]

Scripture teaches ONE BAPTISM in the New Covenant:

Romans 6:3-4
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Are we immersed in water, or in Christ?

Much love!
Mark