Have you heard the good news?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I guess you only needed a saviour from sin at conversion, Jesus is immaterial to you now.

How do you think we are to "keep ourselves." 1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

It is by abiding IN HIM, and He in me. 1 John 3:21-24.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Haven't you let Jesus cleanse you of all unrighteousness yet? You still need Him to do that so you can have a relationship with Him. BTW, does Jesus answer 100% of your prayers like He does mine? That's proof whether you have been saved and freed from sin; or is the Holy Spirit still on the outside drawing you to Christ, but you haven't and you are still sinning?

That old ignorant question from demons is still being asked I see. You still need cleansing from the desire to sin and think everyone does. So sad. A doctrine straight out of hell.
 

Daydreamer

Member
Oct 2, 2022
223
70
28
76
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
How do you think we are to "keep ourselves." 1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

It is by abiding IN HIM, and He in me. 1 John 3:21-24.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Haven't you let Jesus cleanse you of all unrighteousness yet? You still need Him to do that so you can have a relationship with Him. BTW, does Jesus answer 100% of your prayers like He does mine? That's proof whether you have been saved and freed from sin; or is the Holy Spirit still on the outside drawing you to Christ?

That old ignorant question from demons is still being asked I see. You still need cleansing from the desire to sin and think everyone does. So sad. A doctrine straight out of hell.
I thought it was the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us/leads us to live an evermore holy life. So why would you need Jesus if you are sinless?
 

Daydreamer

Member
Oct 2, 2022
223
70
28
76
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
How do you think we are to "keep ourselves." 1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

It is by abiding IN HIM, and He in me. 1 John 3:21-24.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Haven't you let Jesus cleanse you of all unrighteousness yet? You still need Him to do that so you can have a relationship with Him. BTW, does Jesus answer 100% of your prayers like He does mine? That's proof whether you have been saved and freed from sin; or is the Holy Spirit still on the outside drawing you to Christ, but you haven't and you are still sinning?

That old ignorant question from demons is still being asked I see. You still need cleansing from the desire to sin and think everyone does. So sad. A doctrine straight out of hell.
BTW
Do I take it you fully obey all the following? Only you appear to be suggesting only those who do obey all of Christ's commands can be saved/abide with him. I'm sure you will be honest in your response:


If someone asked to lend from you would give to them without ever expecting anything in return?

If someone stole from you would you gladly give them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may insult you, malign or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you never look at anyone with lust in your eye?

Do you never get angry with your brother?

If you have ever fasted, have you made sure you never even hinted to anyone you were fasting?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?
 

Keiw

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2022
3,495
610
113
67
upstate NY
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
don’t read Lk 1:28

Luke 1:28
Wycliffe Bible

28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

Lk 1:30

Luke 1:30
Wycliffe Bible

30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Lk 1:38

Luke 1:38
Wycliffe Bible

38 And Mary said, Lo! the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me after thy word. And the angel departed from her.


Yes Mary stood strong until her end, she was righteous, but a mere mortal sinner.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I thought it was the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us/leads us to live an evermore holy life. So why would you need Jesus if you are sinless?

It is Jesus who makes us without sin. John 8:32-36.

Your question is as stupid as the false teacher that taught it to you. It is like a girl that wants to get married and once she gets married doesn't need her husband anymore. Are you serious? Isa. 54:5. Jesus is my Husband.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
BTW
Do I take it you fully obey all the following? Only you appear to be suggesting only those who do obey all of Christ's commands can be saved/abide with him. I'm sure you will be honest in your response:


If someone asked to lend from you would give to them without ever expecting anything in return?

If someone stole from you would you gladly give them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may insult you, malign or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you never look at anyone with lust in your eye?

Do you never get angry with your brother?

If you have ever fasted, have you made sure you never even hinted to anyone you were fasting?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

Actually, thank you. I have a clear conscience. Do you?
 

Daydreamer

Member
Oct 2, 2022
223
70
28
76
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It is Jesus who makes us without sin. John 8:32-36.
Explain the following to me. Paul is speaking of a justification that clearly takes time to achieve, it is not instantaneous. Justification at conversion is instantaneous. So what justification is he speaking of? Why does he ask the question. ''Is therefore Christ the minister of Sin? And what does he mean when he states: ''For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.''

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal2:17&18
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Explain the following to me. Paul is speaking of a justification that clearly takes time to achieve, it is not instantaneous. Justification at conversion is instantaneous. So what justification is he speaking of? Why does he ask the question. ''Is therefore Christ the minister of Sin? And what does he mean when he states: ''For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.''

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal2:17&18

It is Christ that takes away sin. Daniel 9:24, 1 John 3:5 through whom we receive God's grace, the divine power of God, 2 Peter 1:2-4. After the Galatians received the Spirit and had God's grace, they were visited by Christian Jews who believed the Gentiles must still be circumcised and keep the letter of the law, which Paul says, "the letter kills, but the Spirit brings life." IOW the Galatians who were buying into this outside works of the Law were quenching the Spirit and believing they, themselves could save themselves buy these outward works of the Law. Paul says they were falling from Grace, and thus becoming transgressors again by the Old Covenant Law.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You didn't answer the question. Do you fully and always obey all of the commands of Christ I posted?

Yes I did, so don't ask again. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and stop comparing yourself to other Christians, only Christ. Are you like Christ?
 

Daydreamer

Member
Oct 2, 2022
223
70
28
76
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It is Christ that takes away sin. Daniel 9:24, 1 John 3:5 through whom we receive God's grace, the divine power of God, 2 Peter 1:2-4. After the Galatians received the Spirit and had God's grace, they were visited by Christian Jews who believed the Gentiles must still be circumcised and keep the letter of the law, which Paul says, "the letter kills, but the Spirit brings life." IOW the Galatians who were buying into this outside works of the Law were quenching the Spirit and believing they, themselves could save themselves buy these outward works of the Law. Paul says they were falling from Grace, and thus becoming transgressors again by the Old Covenant Law.
Its OK, I didn't think you could explain those verses
 

Daydreamer

Member
Oct 2, 2022
223
70
28
76
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Yes I did.
No you didn't. You know as well as I do you do not even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ in the gospels. So when you write of obeying Christ's commandments, why not just be honest as to where you are at yourself with many of those commands. Honesty is good for believers you know
 

Daydreamer

Member
Oct 2, 2022
223
70
28
76
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I just did. If you don't know the context of Galatians that I just explained, but just want to justify your sinfulness, you are doomed.
But if, while we seek to be justified BY CHRIST(NOTE), we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal2:17&18

The verses concern a new convert to the faith.

But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. Rom6:17-19

Paul tells the romans though they used to be slaves to sin by following the teaching of grace they crossed over from being slaves of sin to slaves of righteousness leading to holiness. But it takes time, it is not instantaneous to cross over from one state to the other.

A man accepts Christ as his saviour, he is a drunk, habitual thief, a serial adulterer and constantly uses foul language. He is a slave of sin. He seeks to cross over from this state to being a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. He seeks this justification of his faith, not by obeying the law/striving to defeat the sin, but by faith in Christ, he trusts Christ to get him to where he needs to be. Immediately the affairs stop, stealing stops also and the foul language lessens, so fruits of his new found faith are already being seen. However, drinking is not so easy, he has been its slave for many a year. One night he visits a church, his breath smelling of alcohol, and he heartily joins in the service, praising God for saving him through Christ. What would someone who did not understand the message think? ‘’If this man is saved Christ must be the minister of sin, for here he is joining in the service with his breath smelling of alcohol.’’ However, the man hates the fact he still drinks, but he is entitled to still rejoice in his new found faith despite his imperfections, otherwise he must go around in sackcloth and ashes until he is as pure as the driven snow. He keeps looking to Christ, trusting he is saved because he died for him, and trusting him to get him to where he needs to be. Immediately after Paul asks the question. ‘’Does Christ promote sin’’ he answers it ‘’God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.’’ In other words, if Paul rebuilt the system he had sought so hard to destroy, righteousness of obeying the law, and sought to defeat the sin himself to receive such justification of his faith, he would fail and simply prove he was a transgressor/lawbreaker.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No you didn't. You know as well as I do you do not even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ in the gospels. So when you write of obeying Christ's commandments, why not just be honest as to where you are at yourself with many of those commands. Honesty is good for believers you know

Stop daydreaming and start working on yourself. Do these steps and you will never stumble 2 Peter 1:5-11.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal2:17&18

What was destroyed is the Old Covenant of LAW. The Galatians were already in the SPIRIT which is the New Covenant. The Jews had convinced them to resurrect the Old Covenant LAW, and those under the law are transgressors without the Spirit which they were quenching.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,638
2,312
113
77
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A man accepts Christ as his saviour, he is a drunk, habitual thief, a serial adulterer and constantly uses foul language. He is a slave of sin. He seeks to cross over from this state to being a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. He seeks this justification of his faith, not by obeying the law/striving to defeat the sin, but by faith in Christ, he trusts Christ to get him to where he needs to be. Immediately the affairs stop, stealing stops also and the foul language lessens, so fruits of his new found faith are already being seen. However, drinking is not so easy, he has been its slave for many a year. One night he visits a church, his breath smelling of alcohol, and he heartily joins in the service, praising God for saving him through Christ. What would someone who did not understand the message think? ‘’If this man is saved Christ must be the minister of sin, for here he is joining in the service with his breath smelling of alcohol.’’ However, the man hates the fact he still drinks, but he is entitled to still rejoice in his new found faith despite his imperfections, otherwise he must go around in sackcloth and ashes until he is as pure as the driven snow. He keeps looking to Christ, trusting he is saved because he died for him, and trusting him to get him to where he needs to be. Immediately after Paul asks the question. ‘’Does Christ promote sin’’ he answers it ‘’God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.’’ In other words, if Paul rebuilt the system he had sought so hard to destroy, righteousness of obeying the law, and sought to defeat the sin himself to receive such justification of his faith, he would fail and simply prove he was a transgressor/lawbreaker.

He stopped stealing and using women on his own, just like someone under the Law. All your own works. When we actually receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit of Christ comes into us, all desire to sin and drink would have left him. We receive God's POWER. Romans 1:16.
 

Daydreamer

Member
Oct 2, 2022
223
70
28
76
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
He stopped stealing and using women on his own, just like someone under the Law. All your own works. When we actually receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit of Christ comes into us, all desire to sin and drink would have left him. We receive God's POWER. Romans 1:16.
Thank you for your thoughts, but not in line with Gal2:17&18. But if, in seeking to be justified IN(IN) Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin?''' If you are in Christ you are in a saved state. Yet Paul states if we are seeking to be justified in Christ we can find ourselves amongst the sinners
 
Last edited: