This is a new thread for those who have been debating this topic in the discussion of slaying in the Spirit.
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Okay.
Look, guys, this is how it is.
Women are teaching and preaching, and participating in the ministry in every possible way...and God has blessed their efforts.
I know this irks your souls, but that's just the way it is.
If God had a problem with these gals doing what they do, why is He blessing them?
And if God is okay with it, do you really wish to be found fighting against God?
Now, how 'bout we get back to the actual topic of this thread?
If you insist on discussing this, make a new thread where everyone who is interested might have a chance to participate...
Good point, WW.Wormwood said:Barrd said,
Barrd, surely you do not believe this. I mean, with this type of argument someone could claim that Mormonism or Islam is true. If our only standard for determining truth is if it is successful or "blessed" then what use is the Bible? We must evaluate this issue, not by the "success" or competency of women in ministry, but what Scripture actually teaches on the topic. At least that is my opinion. I look forward to the discussion ahead.
Wormwood,Wormwood said:This is a new thread for those who have been debating this topic in the discussion of slaying in the Spirit.
100% true Wormwood. I Know of a pastor that is a "success" because he slavishly does what the denomination tells him to do. After announcing that God told him that He was going to double their congregation every year, he has never had so few people who attend. But that doesn't matter that he is a false prophet as long as he does as he is told.Wormwood said:Barrd said,
Barrd, surely you do not believe this. I mean, with this type of argument someone could claim that Mormonism or Islam is true. If our only standard for determining truth is if it is successful or "blessed" then what use is the Bible? We must evaluate this issue, not by the "success" or competency of women in ministry, but what Scripture actually teaches on the topic. At least that is my opinion. I look forward to the discussion ahead.
Galatians 3:28 does not relate to leadership in the church. It refers to salvation. Context dear lady, context.The Barrd said:I love watching, as you scholars thrash these things out. It is amazing, the things a poor hack writer from Alabama can learn from you guys.
Please, never stop teaching us.
But I gotta tell you...it was enough for me to know that, in Christ, those old barriers are broken down.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
(I'm just real glad to know that the scholars agree with Him.)
It says that men and women are equals in Christ, Marksman.marksman said:Galatians 3:28 does not relate to leadership in the church. It refers to salvation. Context dear lady, context.
I understand what you are saying, Barrd. I would just add t hat our roles are not based upon our spouse fulfilling or neglecting their responsibilities. I believe a husband should love his wife regardless of her submission (or lack thereof) and visa versa. God will hold us each to account for our role in the home, church, workplace, etc. We are to serve the Lord in whatever position we find ourselves in life. What I find fascinating is how Paul emphasizes the role of submission in the Christian life. Christians are to look for ways to submit and submit well. Whether that is a citizen to governing authorities, a worker to his boss (slave/owner), a wife to her husband, children to parents, etc. Certainly Christians who are in positions of authority should not abuse that authority but recognize the one they serve, but Paul's emphasis is submission. Christians are to submit well. We have turned it into a dirty word and egalitarians cringe at the thought of male headship in the home. However, it seems clear to me that Paul saw it as a beautiful thing and a powerful way to display the character of Christ and exhibit God-honoring faith.The Barrd said:It is classic that women are to submit unto their husbands as unto the Lord:
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
But I wonder how many men have heard the next couple of verses preached from behind the pulpit?
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Now, it seems to me that it is the husband who has the greater duty toward his wife....to love her, and nourish her, and protect her, even as the Lord loves His church.
Tell ya what...you find me a guy like that, and he'll have himself the most submissive little wife a guy could ever hope for.
The man I married came pretty darn close...but even he fell short...just a little.
He was one of the very few men I have ever known who didn't mind helping with the housework. He even did dishes for me...every now and then.
Remember...we had seven kids...
I think most of us miss the point that Christ, Himself, modeled perfect submission for us.Wormwood said:I understand what you are saying, Barrd. I would just add t hat our roles are not based upon our spouse fulfilling or neglecting their responsibilities. I believe a husband should love his wife regardless of her submission (or lack thereof) and visa versa. God will hold us each to account for our role in the home, church, workplace, etc. We are to serve the Lord in whatever position we find ourselves in life. What I find fascinating is how Paul emphasizes the role of submission in the Christian life. Christians are to look for ways to submit and submit well. Whether that is a citizen to governing authorities, a worker to his boss (slave/owner), a wife to her husband, children to parents, etc. Certainly Christians who are in positions of authority should not abuse that authority but recognize the one they serve, but Paul's emphasis is submission. Christians are to submit well. We have turned it into a dirty word and egalitarians cringe at the thought of male headship in the home. However, it seems clear to me that Paul saw it as a beautiful thing and a powerful way to display the character of Christ and exhibit God-honoring faith.
Has nothing at all to do with women teaching in the church.The Barrd said:Since Oz added the term "submission" to the title of this thread, I just thought I'd mention...men and women are equal partners in the marriage bed.
1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1Co 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
1Co 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
They are and no one has said they should not be appreciated.The Barrd said:Now, if we gals are to be cherished in our homes, doesn't it make sense that our abilities ought also be be appreciated in the church?
Again this has nothing at all to do with women teaching in the church. And I do the dishes every day.The Barrd said:It is classic that women are to submit unto their husbands as unto the Lord:
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
But I wonder how many men have heard the next couple of verses preached from behind the pulpit?
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Now, it seems to me that it is the husband who has the greater duty toward his wife....to love her, and nourish her, and protect her, even as the Lord loves His church.
Tell ya what...you find me a guy like that, and he'll have himself the most submissive little wife a guy could ever hope for.
The man I married came pretty darn close...but even he fell short...just a little.
He was one of the very few men I have ever known who didn't mind helping with the housework. He even did dishes for me...every now and then.
Remember...we had seven kids...
And this relates to salvation, not women teaching. As I said context dear lady, context.The Barrd said:It says that men and women are equals in Christ, Marksman.
Isn't that enough for you?