So in your view (Which I'd consider your description of Hades to describe the present, temporary heaven, but for believers only)- Hades is for both good and bad? When the evil die, they go to the place pictured in Luke 16?
Hell Is God's Mercy
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Does it make a difference whether its a parable in our discussion about Hell Hades ect? NO.
Jesus describes it as Hades and John in Rev says Hades and death are cast into the fire.
And Satan himself as described by Ezekiel will also be burnt to ashes and be no more
Ezekiel 28
“ You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
[sup]13[/sup] You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
[sup]14[/sup] “ You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
[sup]15[/sup] You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
[sup]16[/sup] “ By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
[sup]17[/sup] “ Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
[sup]18[/sup] “ You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth ............just like the new Testament says
In the sight of all who saw you.
[sup]19[/sup] All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.”’”
I've given you all a mountain of evidence, If you still chose to deny the truth so be it. You will be without excuse.
The English translations are quite consistent. And they do not agree with you. THEY HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT, clearly indicates they are not destroyed. I just checked 12 English translations and they all agree that you are wrong.
Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [sup]10 [/sup]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [sup]11 [/sup]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
It does not conflict with my understanding the point was to SHOW YOU that verses conflict WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HELLS ETERNAL TORMENT.
I have no patents with people like you that read what you want to see. do you understand? my interpretation does not conflict, yours does, but that seems to make no difference to you. You already said the bible contradicts itself as your justification for your understanding.
Mr Ducky your changing the topic, I was replying to your posting here. Not every verse you then chose to form an argument against my statement.
You boys have done your Job I'm all worn out have a nice discussion with yourselves now that the point is left far behind, perhaps no one will find it
If you look closely you'll discover that this is a parable. I have to leave this endless impasse now, I said what I wanted to and as always you and everyone else have a choice, isn't that the wonderful thing about God he lets us make our own choices. Do you see the big big red letters above? Now read below.
- “Tartarus” means “a place of darkness or restraint” (2 Peter 2:4). Satan abides there now.
- “Hades” means “the grave” (Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 20:14). Jesus Christ’s body rested there, and His saints rest there now awaiting the resurrection.
- “Gehenna” means a place of fire, brimstone, and punishment (see Matthew 5:22, 29, 30, described in Matthew 13:40-42, 2 Peter 3:7, 10-12). These flames are yet future, at the end of the world.
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, New International Version, italics added)
Rev 20:14 hell in the KJV = 86. haides hah'-dace from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:--grave, hell.
It does not conflict with my understanding the point was to SHOW YOU that verses conflict WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HELLS ETERNAL TORMENT.
I have no patents with people like you that read what you want to see. do you understand? my interpretation does not conflict, yours does, but that seems to make no difference to you. You already said the bible contradicts itself as your justification for your understanding.
Mr Ducky your changing the topic, I was replying to your posting here. Not every verse you then chose to form an argument against my statement.
You boys have done your Job I'm all worn out have a nice discussion with yourselves now that the point is left far behind, perhaps no one will find it
If you look closely you'll discover that this is a parable. I have to leave this endless impasse now, I said what I wanted to and as always you and everyone else have a choice, isn't that the wonderful thing about God he lets us make our own choices. Do you see the big big red letters above? Now read below.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:14, King James Version, italics added)
- “Tartarus” means “a place of darkness or restraint” (2 Peter 2:4). Satan abides there now.
- “Hades” means “the grave” (Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 20:14). Jesus Christ’s body rested there, and His saints rest there now awaiting the resurrection.
- “Gehenna” means a place of fire, brimstone, and punishment (see Matthew 5:22, 29, 30, described in Matthew 13:40-42, 2 Peter 3:7, 10-12). These flames are yet future, at the end of the world.
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, New International Version, italics added)
Rev 20:14 hell in the KJV = 86. haides hah'-dace from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:--grave, hell.
I used to be a Tartarus, but now I am an Aries
Jesus didn't make up 'fairy tales'. The Luke 16 account even names one of those involved. A little child could understand the account.
I used to be a Tartarus, but now I am an Aries
ROTF LOL I seen that on the news.
What happened did the stars move? or did someone break your magic mirror.
The days grow short
ROTF LOL I seen that on the news.
What happened did the stars move? or did someone break your magic mirror.
haha - the earth titlted - apparently the zodiac was based on the sky seen from earth 5.000 years ago - things change
haha - the earth titlted - apparently the zodiac was based on the sky seen from earth 5.000 years ago - things change
I suppose you can sell that story to the masses. The ones that don't know a thing about the precession of the earth.
Don't forget Hell is Gods Mercy :blink:
They already have a new zodiac -I guess they are hoping everyone will forget the old one - hey, it worked for the Jehovah's Witnesses.
I am glad you are catching on to the truth about Hell.
Look Mr Ducky It makes little difference in our discussion whether it's a fact or a parable, it was spoken by Jesus, its the truth.
I have already made my point with it. I'm sorry you didn't like the results. So please quit grasping at straws
See there you don't even know the foundation the JW started with.
If we keep this up my post about hell will be two pages back, please carry on. B)
BTW I caught on a long time ago about hell and as I asked earlier SHOW ME the verse where God equates his grace with hell. BTW can I call you hell boy? LOL :lol:
Well, according to you guys it won't matter because I'll simply die and never have to suffer for any sins I make- I might even consider it to be mercy!
Then why the hell did you bring it up?
BZZZZZ wrong. Vanna please tell your contestant what he has won.
You have won the name Charles Taze Russell, and to go with it Charles Piazzi Smyth.
The Russell followers are not the JW you know today, today they call themselves the Bible Students
Because its a parable
Selene
New Member
How would you know? Satan was in Heaven and saw God, and he chose to reject God and Heaven. There are also atheists in this world who have read the Bible and they know about Heaven and Hell; yet, they chose to refuse to believe in God and therefore reject Heaven. It was their choice.
Selene
New Member
Yes, they chose Hell. God gave us free will. He is not going to force anyone to follow Him or force anyone to love Him. We all have a choice. Do we accept God or not?
The rich man did not ask to be taken out of the fire. He asked for his thirst to be quenched. That was what he was asking for mercy for. He wanted water, but he never asked to be taken out of the fire.
Do you believe that God forces people to choose only Him? Love has nothing to do with force. If God forces people to follow Him, then there wouldn't be any need for Hell because everyone would go to Heaven. And we do not teach this. We teach that Hell exists, and we have a choice. We either accept God or reject Him. Those who CHOSE to reject God will not be forced to live in Heaven with God.
The existance of Hell shows God's love because he respects the freedom of mankind. If an atheist rejects God and Heaven and does not want to be with God, then they chose to be in Hell and God loves them enough to let them go.
How do I know the lost won't want to be in Hell? Try holding your hand over fire. Then tell us if you want to leave it there.
Just when you think you've heard it all, now Hell is a good place. How Satanic!
Selene
New Member
Every person is different. And the torment that one will experience in Hell is not going to be fire. Hell is separation from God. So, those in Hell will be suffering not from fire, but from being separated from God, who is the source of all joy, happiness, and peace. That is the torment that they will suffer, which is worse than fire.
Do you not know that there are actually some people who enjoy their sins? Was Hitler ever remorseful of killing? Did Saddam Hussein regret killing his son-in-law? There are some who actually enjoy their sins? And yes, there are some who reject God. Atheists do exist in this world, and many atheists are aware of Jesus and have even read the Holy Bible. But they still do not believe.
You actually know people who would enjoy putting their hand in fire?
Enjoying sin is nothing like burning in Hell forever.
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